Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[zwk500]

The signage will need to be amended again once the 360s can reach 110 south of Bedford. Unless they leave as is and issue an instruction just for that class.

You'd imagine they would update the signage so that the 810s don't need their own instruction when running Pan Up (and so there's only 2 limits to remember).

 

[43066]

You'd imagine they would update the signage so that the 810s don't need their own instruction when running Pan Up (and so there's only 2 limits to remember).

Albeit the HST differential applies to 80Xs so, once the the wires permit >100, they could just use those irrespective of whether they’re running on diesel or electricity.

The other oddity at the moment is that the 360s aren’t permitted to use the HST differentials north of Wellingborough, so are limited to 100 on the fasts where linespeed and the modern wiring exceed this.

All in all, it’s a bit of a b*ggers muddle!

 

[zwk500]

All in all, it’s a bit of a b*ggers muddle!

Continuing the long tradition of the MML...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There are rumours that some 222s might be heading to Chiltern, that is one of the options being looked at to replace the 68s and LHCS

I’d consider that an ENORMOUS upgrade, not gonna lie.

 

[43066]

Continuing the long tradition of the MML...

It certainly has “character” .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’d consider that an ENORMOUS upgrade, not gonna lie.

I think you mistyped "a massive waste of platform length"

 

[43096]

I’d consider that an ENORMOUS upgrade, not gonna lie.

Change ‘up’ to ‘down’ and you’d be right. Any move away from IC70 seats is a downgrade for passenger comfort.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Albeit the HST differential applies to 80Xs so, once the the wires permit >100, they could just use those irrespective of whether they’re running on diesel or electricity.

The other oddity at the moment is that the 360s aren’t permitted to use the HST differentials north of Wellingborough, so are limited to 100 on the fasts where linespeed and the modern wiring exceed this.

All in all, it’s a bit of a b*ggers muddle!

This is a shame because although it mightn't make a huge difference, the timetable seems quite fragile. If - for example - a 360 connect service incurs any delay then the following Sheffield service is likely to catch it somewhere around Wellingborough, creating a knock on delay for the Nottingham train that's 3 mins behind the Sheffield. A minor delay to the Connect service seems pretty common as it is running up behind a Thameslink service between West Hampstead and Harpenden area that calls at St Albans, so even a small delay ripples out.

 

[baz962]

I’d never come across that before - interesting!

I'm trying to find it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2023 ==

This is a shame because although it mightn't make a huge difference, the timetable seems quite fragile. If - for example - a 360 connect service incurs any delay then the following Sheffield service is likely to catch it somewhere around Wellingborough, creating a knock on delay for the Nottingham train that's 3 mins behind the Sheffield. A minor delay to the Connect service seems pretty common as it is running up behind a Thameslink service between West Hampstead and Harpenden area that calls at St Albans, so even a small delay ripples out.

The Sheffield catches it delay or not.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes but my point is this isn't by choice. If GWR could wave a magic wand they'd rid themselves of a good proportion of the 5 car fleet. But the 5 cars have been recruited for and we have the extra drivers in place, and thankfully they are not prepared to make drivers redundant! The fact Avanti are going to be splitting and joining at Chester /Euston etc is why they are currently recruiting scores of trainee drivers. So next time you wander why your train ticket is so expensive , maybe this could be a part of the problem. DFT isn't as desperate to save money on railways as it likes to make out.

Ouch. Given drivers are a scarce resource I would rather throw my money at 10-car 810s and so keep things simple.

It does but only if the phone is held in landscape, and I’m normal, so it wasn’t

Portrait/Landscape - whatever, from where I am standing you've got your phone upside down .

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Portrait/Landscape - whatever, from where I am standing you've got your phone upside down .

Very good

 

[12LDA28C]

I’d consider that an ENORMOUS upgrade, not gonna lie.

Pretty sure you're in a very small minority with that opinion.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Change ‘up’ to ‘down’ and you’d be right.

Note that I said I’d consider that an enormous upgrade, not That is an enormous upgrade. You cannot surely think you know better than me about what I like

Any move away from IC70 seats is a downgrade for passenger comfort.

I get this is tongue in cheek but I absolutely hate them. They’re so short. And I know a lot of users agree with me.

Overall, it just goes to show though, there will always be winners or losers with seats and rolling stock replacement in general - and that brings us nicely back on topic to 810s. I reckon there will be people that far prefer them to Meridians and others that dislike the harder seats or brighter lighting or something. And, of course, those that resent them as they remember the time when EMT HSTs ruled the route. @yorksrob , I don’t know why but I get a feeling you would prefer to have those back than 810s

Honestly, I just wish they’d ditch the abrasive looking PIS that 800-803/385 have. The big bright green letters in an ugly angry-looking font just don’t do it for me.

 

[yorksrob]

Note that I said I’d consider that an enormous upgrade, not That is an enormous upgrade. You cannot surely think you know better than me about what I like


I get this is tongue in cheek but I absolutely hate them. They’re so short. And I know a lot of users agree with me.

Overall, it just goes to show though, there will always be winners or losers with seats and rolling stock replacement in general - and that brings us nicely back on topic to 810s. I reckon there will be people that far prefer them to Meridians and others that dislike the harder seats or brighter lighting or something. And, of course, those that resent them as they remember the time when EMT HSTs ruled the route. @yorksrob , I don’t know why but I get a feeling you would prefer to have those back than 810s

Honestly, I just wish they’d ditch the abrasive looking PIS that 800-803/385 have. The big bright green letters in an ugly angry-looking font just don’t do it for me.

You could say that

There's nothing like swooshing through the Midlands at speed in the comfort of your own arm chair !

From what I've read though, they seem to be making an effort with the 810 interiors.

My primary concern for the MML is whether there will be enough capacity on the IC routes. It's no use them saying "we've put on all of this extra capacity to Corby" if the capacity isn't sufficient on the IC lines where people need it.

 

[Energy]

My primary concern for the MML is whether there will be enough capacity on the IC routes. It's no use them saying "we've put on all of this extra capacity to Corby" if the capacity isn't sufficient on the IC lines where people need it.

254/47 (standard/first) for a 5 car 810 is a nice uplift compared to 192/50 for a 5 car 222 and 236/106 for a 7 car 222.

 

[gabrielhj07]

From what I've read though, they seem to be making an effort with the 810 interiors.

The bar is set pretty low these days mind you

 

[Neptune]

254/47 (standard/first) for a 5 car 810 is a nice uplift compared to 192/50 for a 5 car 222 and 236/106 for a 7 car 222.

And double that for a 10 car of course.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

254/47 (standard/first) for a 5 car 810 is a nice uplift compared to 192/50 for a 5 car 222 and 236/106 for a 7 car 222.

A nice uplift for standard class passengers anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

254/47 (standard/first) for a 5 car 810 is a nice uplift compared to 192/50 for a 5 car 222 and 236/106 for a 7 car 222.

Ah but we all know that the current fleet isn't up to it. The question is how do the 810's compare to the full classic fleet of HST's and Meridians.

 

[liamf656]

A nice uplift for standard class passengers anyway.

It’s only 3 less first class seats on a 810 compared to a 5 car 222. 106 first class seats on a 7 car is overkill on most services

 

[Pete_uk]

A nice uplift for standard class passengers anyway.

The poor first class passengers will have to snuggle up to each other!

 

[43055]

One of the big issues on GWR is the extra staff needed to drive all the ECS moves to and from stabling points, or around the station. For example at plymouth , a set needs to run Empty from Laira depot to attach to the incoming train from Penzance. This has led to a big increase in traincrew expenditure, and is one (of several reasons) why GWR has drastically reduced the amount of splitting and joining on route. I fear for the MML frankly. It all looks good on paper, but I personally feel a fleet of 7 coach trains would have been better, though selfishly would prefer the amount of 5 cars running on GWR be sorted first!

The main difference with the MML is that it is already basically a 5 car railway with splitting and joining at London, Sheffield, Kettering and Nottingham at least every weekday. With the 810's nothing is probably going to really change apart from some minor tweaks due to the fleet being just 5 car with no 7 cars and hopefully more 10 cars across the day.

 

[yorksrob]

The bar is set pretty low these days mind you

Good point well made !

 

[Techniquest]

Pretty sure you're in a very small minority with that opinion.

I've got to say, I like the seat comfort on 222s. I think they could be a good fit on the Chilterns.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've got to say, I like the seat comfort on 222s. I think they could be a good fit on the Chilterns.

Overspecified for the route though. But I must add that if Chiltern prices stay as low as they used to be, getting a 222 with the dirt cheap fare would be enough to prise me off a Pendolino to get to Birmingham, which would currently be my (far more expensive) choice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2023 ==

I personally feel a fleet of 7 coach trains would have been better, though selfishly would prefer the amount of 5 cars running on GWR be sorted first!

I don't think that's selfish. As it is, the 810s are still a capacity upgrade on the 222s, whereas the 5 car running on GWR is shambolic alongside the guaranteed 7 or 8 carriage formations prior to 2017.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we keep any discussion about seats to a separate thread please so that we can leave this thread free for discussion of the construction and the introduction of the new class.

thanks all

 

[AndrewJM70]

Apologies, just saw above post and have deleted my post about seats.

 

[JonathanH]

EMR could have got away with a standardised 6-car fleet (402/47) without having to double up.

They would have been left with no option to double up because it wouldn't fit at St Pancras. The 810s are constructed specifically to fit at St Pancras.

An extra train (or even two) in the 07 and 08 hours southbound and in the 17 and 18 hours northbound would deal with the peak.

They don't have that option either as there aren't spare paths at those times between St Pancras and Luton.

 

[Laketop]

Hi all, I have been following this thread for a couple of years now, though unlike Avanti's 800s that have been on the mainline, there's been little to nothing about EMRs 810s. If they are introducing 33 of them, surely there isn't room in the sheds to hide all of them. How is it that their introduction (in any stages) is so slow?

 

[superalbs]

Hi all, I have been following this thread for a couple of years now, though unlike Avanti's 800s that have been on the mainline, there's been little to nothing about EMRs 810s. If they are introducing 33 of them, surely there isn't room in the sheds to hide all of them. How is it that their introduction (in any stages) is so slow?

They are very different trains, and because of the new design, the approvals process will take longer.