Couple who live near railway are upset by noisy Class 37's.

[najaB]

This happens to hundreds of thousands of houses in the UK alongside main roads as traffic increases yearly. There is absolutely no come back on roads but people, and MPs etc, seem to believe there is a come back on rail.

Where it is a general increase in traffic, you are correct. However, where a company causes a major change of traffic patterns (e.g. they expand their factory which doubles the number of HGVs) then they can be required to make remedies to the people affected as part of the planning process.

 

[R4_GRN]

Reminds me of flying for a local parachute club. The owners at the end of the runway bought the house after viewing during the week when club was closed. First Saturday they stormed into the club demanding I do not fly over the house (at 2200 feet). I had to point out that for safety reasons I had to fly directly into wind to let the paras exit, did not help that the prevailing wind was from the DZ towards their house.

Then their was the senior retired airforce pilot who also objected to aircraft flying over his house.

Do these people not do any research before committing to buying a house?

 

[BestWestern]

Just wait until the orange army need to have the line up for some engineering shenanigans. They aren't particularly quiet!

 

[Bromley boy]

Reminds me of flying for a local parachute club. The owners at the end of the runway bought the house after viewing during the week when club was closed. First Saturday they stormed into the club demanding I do not fly over the house (at 2200 feet). I had to point out that for safety reasons I had to fly directly into wind to let the paras exit, did not help that the prevailing wind was from the DZ towards their house.

Then their was the senior retired airforce pilot who also objected to aircraft flying over his house.

Do these people not do any research before committing to buying a house?

That sounds very like the situation in the Southeast.

GA airfields (most of which date from WW2 or earlier) certainly generate unbelievable levels of NIMBYism. This is despite the majority putting in place strict noise-abatement procedures and only experiencing modest and highly seasonal levels of traffic, usually during daylight hours only.

Fatuous safety arguments are usually employed. Of course these are cynically lapped up by local councils with an agenda to plough them up and turn them into housing estates with road names like Merlin Drive and Hurricane Way, more's the pity!

 

[a_c_skinner]

Od course they have a reasonable complaint. They've moved to near a railway no one in a month of Sundays thought would be developed and suddenly they've got some of the noisiest and dirtiest rolling stock on the network routinely in their back yard, rolling stock not remotely like the stuff in the area before.

 

[yorksrob]

I would probably have more sympathy for the householders if the noise was going on late into the night, but given the timetable of the route, I find that difficult to believe.

If they're hanging around with their engines on for long periods, perhaps the railway could do something to mitigate against it by switching off between turns, however other than that I see little that can be done. Maybe Northern could offer the residents in the block free travel for the duration.

 

[asylumxl]

Judging by the photos, there is basically no noise mitigation measures between them and the railway. If this is the case, I don't think it's unreasonable to put some kind of noise barrier there.

 

[fowler9]

The people in question could have paid more for a house not backing on to a railway. They didn't. The road I live in is unusually cheap to buy property in considering the area because it has the railway on one side and a school on the other.

 

[meridian2]

If they're hanging around with their engines on for long periods, perhaps the railway could do something to mitigate against it by switching off between turns

My impression is that was the case. There's a difference between a passing loco, no matter how noisy, and a 37 ticking over for extended periods. I once had a neighbour who left his diesel Jetta on for half an hour under my bedroom window every morning. By the time he left for work my bedroom looked like a London smog and my eyes were streaming.

 

[jon0844]

It's essential in the south!

Around 2/3rds of the homes in my street have some form of air conditining equipment installed. It's great. Mine keeps the place comfortable in summer and is an efficient source of heating in the winter through heat-pump technology.

What street is that? I don't know many new builds, let alone older houses, with air conditioning. And I'm down south!

I have two portable units and while telling people how good it is, I haven't convinced anyone else to buy air conditioning. They buy, pointless, fans at most.

I considered a proper split system but that seemed OTT for a relatively small amount of usage in a year (but on those hot days, it's awesome).

Do you live in a private gated community, cut off from the general population?!

 

[fowler9]

It's essential in the south!

Around 2/3rds of the homes in my street have some form of air conditining equipment installed. It's great. Mine keeps the place comfortable in summer and is an efficient source of heating in the winter through heat-pump technology.

Essential! Where do you live? Southern Egypt?

 

[matchmaker]

What street is that? I don't know many new builds, let alone older houses, with air conditioning. And I'm down south!

I have two portable units and while telling people how good it is, I haven't convinced anyone else to buy air conditioning. They buy, pointless, fans at most.

I considered a proper split system but that seemed OTT for a relatively small amount of usage in a year (but on those hot days, it's awesome).

Do you live in a private gated community, cut off from the general population?!

I work in the construction industry and while full AC in a house is very rare, many nowadays have a Mechanical Ventilation and Heat Recovery (MVHR) system which extracts warm damp air from kitchens and bathrooms and passes it through a heat exchanger which warms external air and passes it into the living areas. That's in winter - in summer it can be used to provide some cooling effect.

 

[Roose]

Except that they bought the house when there weren't 37s trying to smoke them out of the house:

To go with the "they knew that there was a railway there when they bought the house" approach isn't particularly fair.

Exactly so. Their complant isn't with the railway nearby, nor with the depot across the tracks. It is the introduction of the Class 37 + LHCS in May 2015 which have proved so unreliable that they have to be started up earlier and left idling in the middle of the night to help identify the day's problems in the hope that they might be resolved before the time of departure to the station (0534) is due.

The impression is given that a majority of the less sympathetic respondents haven't fully read the article initially linked.

Their house (and all the rest of Barrow) might suffer a step-change down in value if the rail service suddenly got significantly worse...

Not sure about the first part of that but the second has already happened with the loss of some of the Class 185 and the introduction of the Class 37 with their slightly newer (only forty years old) stock.

Meanwhile the litany of complaints with Furness and Cumbrian coast lines services, which the local paper has now taken an interest in, continues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently you can taste the diesel, I don't know if they mentioned it.

I know what they mean. The thick fug that seems to get inside Thames Turbos makes me want to puke, as does the same from idling Voyagers at New St.
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That makes you sound very priveleged, and also detached with the real world.

I've never been in or seen a house with air conditioning.

In the UK it's almost none. And they are not to be encouraged - it's a massive waste of energy. (Unlike a moving vehicle, where the improved fuel efficiency by having a perfectly flat bodyside can offset it).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because there's never been a replacement built with similar characteristics. Nothing built since has managed to combine the TE and RA of a 37, which is why they remain popular machines for this sort of work.

"This sort of work" should be done by a modern 4-car (or 2x2-car) DMU. And the only reason such DMUs aren't in existence is bad planning and rolling stock strategy. If there was one, it'd be hugely cheaper for this specific work than a Class 37.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's essential in the south!

Is it heck. Most homes in the South don't have air conditioning, either - I'm not sure I've ever seen *one* in MK, for example.

I guess you must live in very much a premium area?

Around 2/3rds of the homes in my street have some form of air conditining equipment installed. It's great. Mine keeps the place comfortable in summer and is an efficient source of heating in the winter through heat-pump technology.

Great in the winter, but an almighty waste of energy in the summer. We should instead be designing homes that are naturally warm in summer and cool in winter, then adding heat pumps to *heat* them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't get it, the house buyer made an assumption so Northern should try and sort it out?

Locomotive and DMU engines should not be left idling, full stop. They should be started when the locomotive or unit needs to move, and stopped when it does not.

If, as I suspect, an old design like the Class 37 does not support this, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped in favour of something more modern. And all the 15x should be modified to allow immediate engine shutdown, which they presently don't.

The Germans have had this right for years. DMU arrives at terminus, engine off. Two minutes or so before departure, engine on. Since the 1990s or earlier. Shore supplies should be provided if required for hotel power or pre-heat, for example, though really a non-aircon DMU shouldn't need one, the batteries should be quite sufficient for a typical short layover.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My impression is that was the case. There's a difference between a passing loco, no matter how noisy, and a 37 ticking over for extended periods. I once had a neighbour who left his diesel Jetta on for half an hour under my bedroom window every morning. By the time he left for work my bedroom looked like a London smog and my eyes were streaming.

Agreed, this practice is considered antisocial in the context of road traffic, no reason it should not be seen as the same in the context of rail traffic.

New St, for example, is horrible when a Voyager or other DMU is left idling. Switch the thing off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They buy, pointless, fans at most.

Fans aren't pointless. Moving air helps our body's natural cooling mechanisms to work better.

Air conditioning in buildings is nothing other than a combination of poor design (I'm thinking wall-of-glass office buildings here) and a complete waste of energy. TBH, I'd actually be happy to see it banned in new buildings in favour of more sustainable design. I understand it's actually already restricted in Switerland, FWIW.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The impression is given that a majority of the less sympathetic respondents haven't fully read the article initially linked.

More like not read any of it. The majority of the comments are based on the grossly misrepresentative thread title and nothing stated in the article itself.

 

[najaB]

Air conditioning in buildings is nothing other than a combination of poor design (I'm thinking wall-of-glass office buildings here) and a complete waste of energy.

That is a terrible blanket assessment of the situation. There are many cases where natural ventilation is just not feasible, and a well-designed HVAC system can be quite energy efficient.

 

[fowler9]

I know what they mean. The thick fug that seems to get inside Thames Turbos makes me want to puke, as does the same from idling Voyagers at New St.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In the UK it's almost none. And they are not to be encouraged - it's a massive waste of energy. (Unlike a moving vehicle, where the improved fuel efficiency by having a perfectly flat bodyside can offset it).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


"This sort of work" should be done by a modern 4-car (or 2x2-car) DMU. And the only reason such DMUs aren't in existence is bad planning and rolling stock strategy. If there was one, it'd be hugely cheaper for this specific work than a Class 37.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is it heck. Most homes in the South don't have air conditioning, either - I'm not sure I've ever seen *one* in MK, for example.

I guess you must live in very much a premium area?



Great in the winter, but an almighty waste of energy in the summer. We should instead be designing homes that are naturally warm in summer and cool in winter, then adding heat pumps to *heat* them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Locomotive and DMU engines should not be left idling, full stop. They should be started when the locomotive or unit needs to move, and stopped when it does not.

If, as I suspect, an old design like the Class 37 does not support this, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped in favour of something more modern. And all the 15x should be modified to allow immediate engine shutdown, which they presently don't.

The Germans have had this right for years. DMU arrives at terminus, engine off. Two minutes or so before departure, engine on. Since the 1990s or earlier. Shore supplies should be provided if required for hotel power or pre-heat, for example, though really a non-aircon DMU shouldn't need one, the batteries should be quite sufficient for a typical short layover.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Agreed, this practice is considered antisocial in the context of road traffic, no reason it should not be seen as the same in the context of rail traffic.

New St, for example, is horrible when a Voyager or other DMU is left idling. Switch the thing off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Fans aren't pointless. Moving air helps our body's natural cooling mechanisms to work better.

Air conditioning in buildings is nothing other than a combination of poor design (I'm thinking wall-of-glass office buildings here) and a complete waste of energy. TBH, I'd actually be happy to see it banned in new buildings in favour of more sustainable design. I understand it's actually already restricted in Switerland, FWIW.

Your response to me was fantastic and very happy clappy but if the TOC has nothing else to use what should they do? There are good reasons for keeping diesel engines idling, Google is your friend.
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If people don't like it they can either choose to not buy a house by the railway and/or vote for a party that will ensure that our public transport is not operated by 50 to 60 year old locos that are started at X in the morning to make sure they are working.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some of the more "sympathetic" posters are acting like Northern are using 37's for a laugh and start the engines early in the morning for no other reason than to annoy people who chose to buy a house by the railway.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's essential in the south!

Around 2/3rds of the homes in my street have some form of air conditining equipment installed. It's great. Mine keeps the place comfortable in summer and is an efficient source of heating in the winter through heat-pump technology.

Excuse me?

I live 20 miles from the south coast.

No AC here. Most houses down here do not have any.

 

[w0033944]

You must live in a particularly affluent street and be very friendly with your neighbours.

Absolutely - I live south of the north-south divide, and in a relatively affluent, Tory-voting area with a fair few wealthy arable farmers and stately home owners, and air conditioning in homes is, AFAIK, almost unknown here. I think unless you live in the consituency that was recently vacated by "call me Dave" or the stockbroker belt in the southern Home Counties, you'll struggle to relate to the statement "what home doesn't have A/C nowadays?"

 

[fowler9]

I am guessing most Premiership footballers survive in the UK without their homes having air con. Why would you spend all that money for the 30 seconds a year your house would need it?

 

[anme]

Absolutely - I live south of the north-south divide, and in a relatively affluent, Tory-voting area with a fair few wealthy arable farmers and stately home owners, and air conditioning in homes is, AFAIK, almost unknown here. I think unless you live in the consituency that was recently vacated by "call me Dave" or the stockbroker belt in the southern Home Counties, you'll struggle to relate to the statement "what home doesn't have A/C nowadays?"

I know some people who live in very wealthy areas of west London (wealthier than David Cameron), and I still have never seen a house in the UK with air conditioning.

 

[Timrud]

What routes do 37 hauled passenger services run on?

 

[najaB]

What routes do 37 hauled passenger services run on?

This is the thread you are looking for.

 

[Timrud]

Thank you

 

[zn1]

rule number one - check the area thoroughly, if next to a railway line consult network rail about traffic flows etc
staines or windsor etc at the end of runways
what u need to do my dears - is either move or put up...at least its
the 37s are only used as they have a characteristic most locos today dont have - lightweight solid tractors, that can pull in any weather, yes they need an exhaust scrubber or two, are a tad loud, but people need to look at this as a quiantness of them...if they were classic cars noone would bat an eyelid, these are your classic post war diesel locos, cheap solid and reliable engineering...

so my words would be put up or sell up...the railway was there long before your home or you, it does as they say have overiding priority over you !

 

[najaB]

...it does as they say have overiding priority over you !

I don't think that is the case. There has been a significant change of use so the couple could have a valid noise/nuisance complaint.

 

[exile]

rule number one - check the area thoroughly, if next to a railway line consult network rail about traffic flows etc
staines or windsor etc at the end of runways
what u need to do my dears - is either move or put up...at least its
the 37s are only used as they have a characteristic most locos today dont have - lightweight solid tractors, that can pull in any weather, yes they need an exhaust scrubber or two, are a tad loud, but people need to look at this as a quiantness of them...if they were classic cars noone would bat an eyelid, these are your classic post war diesel locos, cheap solid and reliable engineering...

so my words would be put up or sell up...the railway was there long before your home or you, it does as they say have overiding priority over you !

So reliable, apparently, that they need to be left idling when not in use. So much for the green credentials of rail transport.

Whilst the couple knew they were buying a house near a railway, they didn't know they'd have 50-plus-year-old diesels chuntering away at all times of the day.

 

[bramling]

So reliable, apparently, that they need to be left idling when not in use. So much for the green credentials of rail transport.

Whilst the couple knew they were buying a house near a railway, they didn't know they'd have 50-plus-year-old diesels chuntering away at all times of the day.

What I'd give to have the sound of a real class 37 idling outside my window! Although having said that, the fumes might be rather less desirable.

For what it's worth I can see both sides of the argument. If you buy a house next to a railway then you are going to get noise, and next door to sidings can be far worse than a running line. However, equally the class 37 situation is a little unusual, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for the railway to look to see if they can mitigate in any way then reasonably can - within reason.

From the point of view of the couple, having the issue broadcast in the media probably wasn't a wise move. They've probably knocked a lot off the value of their home should they choose to sell it, as now all and sundry will know about the issue.

 

[plarailfan]

Maybe some surplus coal hopper wagons of the types used by Freightliner and others, could be positioned in one of the sidings to act as a noise barrier ?
The Diesel fumes from 37's might possibly circulate in a slightly less intrusive manner as well, but that would remain to be seen. At least some attempt can be made, to try and lessen the environmental impact of 37's.
railway emissions are generally perceived to be more acceptable than other modes of transport, so the last thing enthusiasts need is for their classic traction to be under the spotlight, otherwise preserved lines might end up being castigated. I remember some years ago, a guy bought a house around Keighley - near the Worth Valley railway and them, bitterly complained that their steam loco's should be using smokeless fuel !

 

[QueensCurve]

It's quite simple really.

One part of the issue they note is the noise and smoke when the locos are started. Practical solution is to not turn them off at night, problem solved!

Then of course they are idling all night. I recall that the Class 40s at Dundee Diesel Depot in the 1980s could be heard whistling from the Sea Braes opposite Airlie Place.
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GA airfields (most of which date from WW2 or earlier) certainly generate unbelievable levels of NIMBYism. This is despite the majority putting in place strict noise-abatement procedures and only experiencing modest and highly seasonal levels of traffic, usually during daylight hours only.

GA does seem to generate undue hostility. Perhaps their beef it with what they see as a rich man's plaything rather than essential air transport.