Cross country - 85% train reserved seating but train 5% full

[yorksrob]

I'm for removing all seat reservations, from trains and especially cinemas. There's 100 seats around you, pick one!

I never even knew they had seat reservations in cinemas!

 

[Senex]

Cross Country seem to constantly defend their late reservation system as if never to admit defeat. It seems hopeless to me & causes passengers distress & traincrew headaches.

CrossCountry doesn't seem able to admit that it has got things badly wrong. Unless you move to Reservation Only, then the present system can't work until there is a real-time feed-back from the train to the booking system shewing which free seats have been taken by turn-up-and-go passengers and are therefore not available for last-minute reservation by booking offices or by sms. And Reservation Only hardly seems a practical policy for an operator that wants its share of very short-distance traffic like Wakefield to Leeds or Burton to Derby.

 

[fireftrm]

One basic misunderstanding by many here is that the train the OP refers to is a 170 with paper reservations- hence the from A to B C to D etc.
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I never even knew they had seat reservations in cinemas!

Clearly not a film lover then?

 

[yorksrob]

One basic misunderstanding by many here is that the train the OP refers to is a 170 with paper reservations- hence the from A to B C to D etc.
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Clearly not a film lover then?

The occasional one. Unfortunately last time I tried to go to a cinema we missed the showing because we were stuck behind hundreds of people in the ticket queue (who were all taking ages buying overpriced food because the company had decided not to provide a separate food counter).

I decided I'd wait for the next one to come out on telly.

 

[MarkyT]

. . . the scrolling displays don't show at a glance where the seat is booked from and to - so you see a seat, start to wait then feel pressurised to move down the carriage by the dozens of other passengers looking for seats

Yes that is a factor in boarding efficiency. With traditional reservation labels you can take in all the information in a split second glance. Electronic displays need to be bigger and more comprehensive to match this. Another thing on some modern stock is the very high seat backs. With original 70s Intercity seating you could tell at a glance where any spaces were in a Mk3 coach from the saloon end door. Now you have to walk right through the centre isle looking left and right to discover a free seat before you can even check the reservation status.

 

[Haydn1971]

Another thing on some modern stock is the very high seat backs. With original 70s Intercity seating you could tell at a glance where any spaces were in a Mk3 coach from the saloon end door. Now you have to walk right through the centre isle looking left and right to discover a free seat before you can even check the reservation status.

Those pesky collision safety regulations again haha

 

[jaigee]

The Birmingham/Leicester/Stanstead 170's sets usually do a turn about, i.e. Birmingham-Leicester and then Birmingham-Stanstead.
Often the non-bookable Birmingham-Leicester carries seat reservations for it's next turn as the Stanstead train.
This really causes confusion. :-?

 

[222007]

Half the battle I find is when boarding a XC train is that the scrolling displays don't show at a glance where the seat is booked from and to .

CrossCountry turbostar services have labels its only the voyager and HSTs that have electronic displays

 

[455driver]

I'm for removing all seat reservations, from trains and especially cinemas. There's 100 seats around you, pick one!

So when I travel with my 3 kids we should all sit separate should we rather than be able to sit together?
Why don't you try thinking of other peoples needs before posting!

 

[al78]

I'm for removing all seat reservations, from trains and especially cinemas. There's 100 seats around you, pick one!

What about people with mobility issues who may wish to reserve a seat which is easy to access?

 

[dk1]

Another thing on some modern stock is the very high seat backs. With original 70s Intercity seating you could tell at a glance where any spaces were in a Mk3 coach from the saloon end door. Now you have to walk right through the centre isle looking left and right to discover a free seat before you can even check the reservation status.

One of mine too. You walk into a coach at Paddington thinking plenty of seats only to find yourself walking & walking. Only very very tall people (apart from me) should be allowed to travel on these trains.

 

[class26]

CrossCountry turbostar services have labels its only the voyager and HSTs that have electronic displays

Don`t think the HST`s have electronic displays, surely it`s just the voyagers?

 

[Darandio]

Don`t think the HST`s have electronic displays, surely it`s just the voyagers?

They do. Whether they are on and working is another question entirely.

 

[222007]

They do. Whether they are on and working is another question entirely.

Cannot disagree with you there

 

[CC 72100]

Cannot disagree with you there

They were quite reliable last year, but have pretty poor in my experience in the last 6 months or so. When working I find the HST screens much clearer and better-placed than their 22x counterparts.

 

[TheNewNo2]

So when I travel with my 3 kids we should all sit separate should we rather than be able to sit together?
Why don't you try thinking of other peoples needs before posting!

I believe in a system where if you get on the train first you get to choose your seat. If you are part of a group then perhaps you could ask someone to kindly move so you can sit together? Especially if you have children, I doubt people are going to be asinine. And if they are asinine then they probably sat there regardless of whether you had a reservation or not.

What about people with mobility issues who may wish to reserve a seat which is easy to access?

Under the current system, people with mobility issues don't have to get seat reservations but are still entitled to take the priority seats. That's the same on all trains, regardless of whether there are seat reservations.

 

[Hadders]

I believe in a system where if you get on the train first you get to choose your seat. If you are part of a group then perhaps you could ask someone to kindly move so you can sit together? Especially if you have children, I doubt people are going to be asinine. And if they are asinine then they probably sat there regardless of whether you had a reservation or not.





Under the current system, people with mobility issues don't have to get seat reservations but are still entitled to take the priority seats. That's the same on all trains, regardless of whether there are seat reservations.

That not going to work on any busy-ish train.

Even Ryanair have moved away from unallocated seating even though on a plane everyone has a seat.

 

[cuccir]

Under the current system, people with mobility issues don't have to get seat reservations but are still entitled to take the priority seats. That's the same on all trains, regardless of whether there are seat reservations.

The thing is though, the phrase 'mobility issues' covers a range of people. We tend to think of a visibly frail elderly person, or someone using crutches or heavily pregnant. But there are many people for whom everyday walking around is not an issue, but will need a guaranteed seat for anything more than a 30 minute/1 hour journey.

I'm thinking of people with mild arthirits, sciatica, hypermobility etc, or even a straight forward 'bad back', who may be pretty much fully mobile and look perfectly healthy, but do need a seat for a long journey. Often such people may not know how their condition will be - it might be fine on the day, but equally if booking in advance they don't know that their body won't be much worse.

The simple answer is that if reservations are not available, then a good chunk of these people (who form quite a large part of the population) simply wouldn't use the train without reservations. Never-mind, families, people who want to work, etc.! So it would make little business sense to remove this facility.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If I had to fight with 500 other people to get a seat at Kings Cross on a Sunday afternoon, I'd drive instead. I'm sure most people are the same.

Having to stand from London to Preston recently because the seat reservation system had failed was enough to put me off travelling with Virgin Trains ever again.

 

[Statto]

Always happens. CC Cardiff-Nottingham. Seems most of the seats are reserved.

Then the trains about 5-10% full. Where did all these people go? These reservations seem pretty pointless to me.

And it gets my goat when I sit in seat, theres 4 other people in the carriage but no some old person feels the need to kick me out of their reserved seat !

Just because there's few passengers on you're leg of the journey doesn't mean that the service is like that throughout the whole journey, as said seats have been reserved between stations further down the line.

Last point, i always look on any seat to see if that's been reserved to make sure it hasn't been reserved for my leg of the journey, even if there's only a handful of passengers on the service then tough you should move if the passenger asks you to if you're sitting in there reserved seat[it's reserved for a reason], that passenger could be traveling on part of the service where it gets busy at later in the journey, plus the passenger has to sit in that seat when using APs.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Even Ryanair have moved away from unallocated seating even though on a plane everyone has a seat.

I think that was because Easyjet did the same about a year earlier.

Given stories of people pushing to get good seats and families getting split up, allocated seating is certainly good on planes and must make things so much easier for the onboard staff.

I think people these days are used to having allocated seats - on planes, cinemas, events etc. it is standard now and in many countries all train seats are allocated on high speed routes. I expect us to move more towards that than the other way around.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe in a system where if you get on the train first you get to choose your seat.

So those travelling from intermediate stations are less important?

I'm getting bored of the boarding scrum on increasingly busy trains, and am increasingly tending towards the idea of having unmarked reservations (except for a marked unreserved area for last-minute boarders) and ticket offices, TVMs and mobile phones allowing a last minute reservation with seat selection.
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I think people these days are used to having allocated seats - on planes, cinemas, events etc. it is standard now and in many countries all train seats are allocated on high speed routes. I expect us to move more towards that than the other way around.

Interestingly with cinemas the reasoning is, I think, to reduce the need to pay staff to sell tickets on the day because most will purchase them in advance now. My local Cineworld has dispensed with the box office entirely - the few who don't book can buy a ticket from a machine or the refreshment counter. It also reduces the need to take costly cash.

The whole thing is made easier by the Internet and mobile phones being a convenient way to book things - it's much easier when you don't have to physically go to the station to reserve.
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Having to stand from London to Preston recently because the seat reservation system had failed was enough to put me off travelling with Virgin Trains ever again.

Seems strange to blame VT for that when non-placed or non-functional reservations are a problem on all TOCs. But I see your point, and moving to unmarked reservations would solve that problem too.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Seems strange to blame VT for that when non-placed or non-functional reservations are a problem on all TOCs. But I see your point, and moving to unmarked reservations would solve that problem too.

It was their train that had the failed reservation. I turned up close to departure thinking I'd have a seat and, er, didn't.

I assume by umarked reservations you mean the system Eurostar use? That would work in one way, but would completely destroy the walk-on railway, so I'd probably not be in favour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was their train that had the failed reservation. I turned up close to departure thinking I'd have a seat and, er, didn't.

Yes, my point was that that has happened to me from time to time on all TOCs, not just VT. So I wouldn't give up travel on VT because of it (but I might, if it really bothered me, give up train travel completely, as in my experience it has roughly equal chance of happening on all TOCs, whether the system is paper or electronic).

I assume by umarked reservations you mean the system Eurostar use? That would work in one way, but would completely destroy the walk-on railway, so I'd probably not be in favour.

Eurostar operates what is termed "compulsory reservations" - tickets are only sold until there are no seats left, and if you don't have a reservation you can't board, so the train can "sell out". What I would propose would be a halfway house.

To use a Virgin Pendolino as an example, then, you might have coaches F and U marked as permanently unreserved as well as one First Class coach (or half of one). No seats in those two coaches would ever have reservations, and standing passengers would remain allowed throughout the train. However in all other coaches, seats would be reservable at any time right up to departure time (and after it if delayed) and would not be marked as reserved.

A passenger arriving on-spec at the station would thus have a few options - go to a TVM, the ticket office or use a mobile phone to obtain a reservation of an available seat of their choice in coaches A-E (or corresponding First Class coaches), or board and take a seat in clearly-marked unreserved coaches F and U if any are available, or stand. They could also use a mobile phone or perhaps ask staff if they wished to obtain a reservation while on board.

To discourage wasted reservations clogging this up, a given numbered ticket would only be able to have one reservation for each relevant leg marked against it. Before taking another, the existing one would need to be released. Though I'm not sure how I'd handle it in the case of a missed train - one could perhaps encourage releasing the earlier reservation by allowing another one to be obtained, but at a small fee, say £2, if the earlier one had not been released.

 

[crehld]

I assume by umarked reservations you mean the system Eurostar use? That would work in one way, but would completely destroy the walk-on railway, so I'd probably not be in favour.

SNCF seem to make it work. A few times now I have bought tickets only a few minutes before departure and in all cases where reservations were possible I have always been given one.

 

[paulfoel]

Seen some weird affects of the reservation system recently.

Like someone said, people either don't read the reservation ticket properly and don't realise that:-

A) It might not be reserved for the part of the journey they want to use the seat for.
B) The start of the reservation has passed and the person is not using the seat.
C) Think they can take ages and read every single reservation card in detail.
D) You don't absolutely have to use that seat. If the train is empty no-one is going to throw you off if don't use your reservation.

Someone got on at newport the other day looking for their seat. Asked me - so is this carriage A. No its C. So they walked off. 10 minutes later came back. Are you sure? So I pointed to the reservation ticket on a nearby seat. Off they went. Came back eventually (we'd got to chepstow by then so they'd spend 20+ minutes walking up and down the train) and sat down.

Looking around - two other people in the carriage so plenty of seats anyway. Weird behaviour.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The thing is though, the phrase 'mobility issues' covers a range of people. We tend to think of a visibly frail elderly person, or someone using crutches or heavily pregnant. But there are many people for whom everyday walking around is not an issue, but will need a guaranteed seat for anything more than a 30 minute/1 hour journey.

I'm thinking of people with mild arthirits, sciatica, hypermobility etc, or even a straight forward 'bad back', who may be pretty much fully mobile and look perfectly healthy, but do need a seat for a long journey. Often such people may not know how their condition will be - it might be fine on the day, but equally if booking in advance they don't know that their body won't be much worse.

The simple answer is that if reservations are not available, then a good chunk of these people (who form quite a large part of the population) simply wouldn't use the train without reservations. Never-mind, families, people who want to work, etc.! So it would make little business sense to remove this facility.

Indeed I'd just like the echo this. One of my friends was diagnosed with leukaemia a few years back and underwent a mixture of treatment involving chemotherapy with left her quick weak and also very susceptible to other illnesses and issues. One thing she suffered from in the aftermath of this was that her legs were quite weak and she got very tired very quickly, both meaning really for any decent length train journey (such as travelling from where she lived to work, or where she lived to her parents) she needed a seat. As she is a young woman with no visible disabilities or illness, she had absolute hell trying to make sure she could get a seat on some journeys. The way some people talked to her was nothing but disgusting.

 

[satisnek]

The Birmingham/Leicester/Stanstead 170's sets usually do a turn about, i.e. Birmingham-Leicester and then Birmingham-Stanstead.
Often the non-bookable Birmingham-Leicester carries seat reservations for it's next turn as the Stanstead train.
This really causes confusion. :-?

Ah, thanks, that explains it. The other day I was travelling on XC's shortest route - I'll quote the wonderfully laconic guard in full: "Coleshill, Nuneaton, Hinckley, Narborough, Wiggy and Leicester" - and there was a chap applying seat reservation labels prior to departure from New Street! There was me thinking, "people really reserve seats on this service"!?

 

[Master29]

I think I need to start travelling with you, I've never seen a 5% full XC turbostar

Or any XC Voyager come to that