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cross country voyager seat E64
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Eagle
Established Member
I presume it was a HST, being as XC Voyagers don't have a coach E.
This was a 5 coach set. So back to my original question..... a seat E64 that exists but doesn't have a screen?
causton
Established Member
Actually, Voyagers go A, B, C, D, F for some reason?
And as you can see on the seating plan below seat 64 would be non-reservable.
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/61862/voyager_seat_plan.pdf
Presumably the seat would be reservable on an HST but as the coach doesn't exist and the seat is marked NR on the diagram they are not on a Voyager!
And as you can see on the seating plan below seat 64 would be non-reservable.
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/61862/voyager_seat_plan.pdf
Presumably the seat would be reservable on an HST but as the coach doesn't exist and the seat is marked NR on the diagram they are not on a Voyager!
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Eagle
Established Member
E was left out by Bombardier in case of Project Thor (adding pantograph car). Similarly in double Voyagers, K is missing.
Virgin later changed coach F to E so that it matched Pendolinos, but XC kept the original anomalous letters.
According to that plan, the coach next to F being D, seat D64 is a non-reservable seat. Looks like you were unlucky there.
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Rich McLean
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Lots of stock on different diagrams this evening, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of trains were showing incorrect reservations, or no reservations at all.
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Was it booked HST?
Coach E isn't a coach you can usually reserve on a Voyager as it sometimes doesn't exist, and when it does, it should be a non-reservable coach.
XC's policy is that invisible reservations are enforced and a game of 'musical chairs' should take place at each stop when the system isn't working correctly.
Coach E isn't a coach you can usually reserve on a Voyager as it sometimes doesn't exist, and when it does, it should be a non-reservable coach.
XC's policy is that invisible reservations are enforced and a game of 'musical chairs' should take place at each stop when the system isn't working correctly.
causton
Established Member
Yes you are right. I am sure I saw it saying NR, then must have looked back at Coach C! It is non-reservable, so that explains it...
Eagle
Established Member
To repeat:
XC Voyagers never have a coach E.
Virgin Voyagers do have one (but it's first class).
This morning, the guard on my southbound XC said the opposite re non-working reservations.
Repeating something doesn't make it right.
I've had a Coach E on a Voyager previously. Maybe they've changed the lettering since then, I don't know, I rarely travel with XC. If so, then "never" could be replaced by "no longer" or "rarely".
But an ex-XC member of staff has said that some of them have a coach E, and the OP says he had a Voyager with a Coach E today, so I am not convinced they "never" have a Coach E.
Eagle
Established Member
I am completely certain that they (XC Voyagers) never have a Coach E nowadays. Henve why I used the present tense. I didn't say they have never had one.
I've travelled on them regularly for the last four years or so and the last coach has always been F; and additionally every seating plan I've seen (both official and unofficial) shows there to be no Coach E.
Are you completely certain that you're not confusing XC with VT?
Also if you actually look at what 34D said (post 4), he said that he was in "the coach next to Coach F". Which would be D, making the seat he's talking about D64, which is unreservable.
I've travelled on them regularly for the last four years or so and the last coach has always been F; and additionally every seating plan I've seen (both official and unofficial) shows there to be no Coach E.
Are you completely certain that you're not confusing XC with VT?
Also if you actually look at what 34D said (post 4), he said that he was in "the coach next to Coach F". Which would be D, making the seat he's talking about D64, which is unreservable.
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I remember those seats; when I regularly used XCT about 2 years ago they didn't even have a number. I always made a bee line for the seats by the old shop as they were unreserveable, had good legroom, and good luggage storage.
causton
Established Member
The OP actually confirmed they just looked at the coach next to coach F, which is more than likely D. (As someone who very rarely travels on a Voyager I cannot say myself either way!)
Eagle
Established Member
Yeah, XC's carriage lettering catches many people out. Particularly when there's a double set and one of the units is the wrong way round, meaning you can get sequences like A-C-D-F-L-J-I-G—which with no corridor connection can be especially frustrating for the unaware trying to find their seat.
(The second unit takes the letters G-I-J-L for a 220 and G-H-I-J-L for a 221, to keep consistency with the first unit. Again, no K to match no E.)
(The second unit takes the letters G-I-J-L for a 220 and G-H-I-J-L for a 221, to keep consistency with the first unit. Again, no K to match no E.)
swt_passenger
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Highly doubtful surely? The idea of fitting a pantograph car certainly wasn't around when the trains were new - there were no widespread XC electrification plans for a start.
I expect E was left out just to allow for the possibility of a sixth normal coach to be added in due course, with the standard class end car intended to be coach F whether the train had 4,5 or 6 cars.
leedstraindude
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Ive been at XC five years, XC voyagers have never had a coach in in that time.
bb21
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Which service was it?
In the absence of this information, I have to agree with Eagle. I have never seen a Coach E on XC voyagers. The unreservable coach is Coach B on 5-car voyagers, since they are missing on 220s, and that means there is no need for the reservation system to know whether it is a 220 or a 221 allocated to that particular diagram.
Coach E only exists on HSTs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am unsure what it was booked since there are frequent alterations to HST diagrams.
However looking at the other diagrams on the day: 1V46 southbound and 1S53 northbound was formed of an HST vice Voyager, whilst 1V44 and 1S51 an hour earlier was also formed of an HST as per original diagram. Therefore it is quite possible that your train (1S55 and an hour behind 1S53, both originating from Plymouth) was originally booked an HST.
Both 1V50 southbound / 1E63 northbound and 1V54 southbound / 1E73 northbound ran HSTs as booked.
Qwerty133
Established Member
I've seen EMT double meridians with coach N next to coach A.
With how operators keep missing out letters, I expect it will only be a matter of time before we see 153s labeled coach B
ValleyLines142
Established Member
It's not a ludicrous policy, and the guard in question could be in serious trouble for enforcing that.
So as a passenger without a reservation, how can CrossCountry's invisible reservation policy work without being at risk of having to change seat at every stop?
Its completely unworkable.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
Simple. If a passenger is quite certain of what train they're catching, they go to a ticket office and get a reservation for that train.
Alternatively, if they have a change of plan, they use the Ten Minute Reservation system.
This is why the Ten Minute Reservation system has been enforced, so that passengers are almost guaranteed a seat.
Forgive me for sounding a little blunt, but I absolutely point blank refuse to accept that people have to move all the time because they cannot be bothered to use the TMR service. If they're too lazy to use it, then tough quite frankly, they can stand.
I put it harshly, but it's true I'm sorry.
They have a policy to follow, so if they're not following it, then they're not doing their job properly!
It's like a Customer Host refusing to provide an at-seat trolley service in First Class when it is stated that it's available.
yorkie said:
Actually that's not quite true. You'd be surprised. I've travelled on four First Great Western services in the past two weeks which have had no reservations and on all four occassions the Train Manager said that although seat reservations are not displayed passengers can still claim them. Which is fair I think. If you don't have a reservation on a HST then Coach E is the place to be because that's the non-reservable coach. Simples!
I'm not entirely sure as to whether this is FGW's policy; if it isn't then they're breaking their rules, just like that XC guard did by NOT enforcing reservations.
Soon enough, I think the TMR service will be available on all operator's services.
Can I also bear all of your attention to the following email I had from XC:
So yes, you are guaranteed a seat, on XC's trains, by showing them your reservation ticket or in the case of TMR your phone.
Yorkie be fair here, if you had a reserved seat on an XC service and someone was sat in your seat, I'm pretty sure you'd eject them quicker than they could blink!
Anyway, diverted slightly, the Coach E scenario on a Voyager is an odd one. As 220s go A-C-D-F and 221s go A-B-C-D-F.
My only guess is that Coach D on the day of the OP's journey was re-lettered to Coach E, as all of the Coach displays are electronic, so technically they could become any coach they like (i.e. there are physically no letters on the side of the train, like FGW's HSTs for instance).
But as has already been discovered, Coach E does exist on XC HSTs.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
How is it not a ludicrous policy? Passengers get on without reservations, and if the system is broken there is no way of knowing which seats are available and which ones are not. Therefore it needs to be treated as no reservations, with a request that if you can sit in your booked seat you should do so. That's what every other TOC does, not that it stops the age old "you're in my seat" arguments.
I've never seen a coach E on a Voyager, and I took one to and from work every day for five years (lucky me!), but I'm sure they can programme one if they so desire. I've seen Voyagers where (I presume) the TM has 'switched' carriages due to a defect with the reservation displays, with coach B becoming C and C becoming B.
Finally, Grand Central's 180s are the best for stupid carriage lettering. Their layout is B-C-E-F-D.
Eagle
Established Member
Blame whoever decided to have first class in the second carriage. (On both GC 180s and HSTs, first class is in coach F.)
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