Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I mean you said “Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast” so obviously it’s your view to some degree!

Which is fair, just don’t think it’s borne out in reality.

I suggest that you go to Abbey Wood and observe how many passengers coming in from the street go straight to the Elizabeth Line platforms. I also recommend that you note how many people change to the Elizabeth Line from trains coming from the south. These are "average non-enthusiasts" and they clearly rate the Elizabeth Line highly.

Oh I see. That’s wonderful to hear then; I myself think the whole thing is brilliant engineering and a success.

 

[swt_passenger]

I suggest that you go to Abbey Wood and observe how many passengers coming in from the street go straight to the Elizabeth Line platforms. I also recommend that you note how many people change to the Elizabeth Line from trains coming from the south. These are "average non-enthusiasts" and they clearly rate the Elizabeth Line highly.

It will be interesting to see if the prediction of 50% transferring from SE to EL, (made in the last Kent route study), turns out to be correct, and how soon it occurs…

 

[reddragon]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

London commuters have a particular skill of mastering the transport network, knowing shortcuts, ignoring signs & alternative routes, exit locations & favourite seat locations.

On Saturday I took my youngest for a ride in London, 20 trains with minimal or no waits, lots of exploration whilst learning new shortcuts!

 

[ijmad]

It will be interesting to see if the prediction of 50% transferring from SE to EL, (made in the last Kent route study), turns out to be correct, and how soon it occurs…

Intrigued to see the knock-on effects for Woolwich as well, both from reduced interchange at Woolwich Arsenal and locals changing their start of journey to the Elizabeth Line.

 

[Mikey C]

Intrigued to see the knock-on effects for Woolwich as well, both from reduced interchange at Woolwich Arsenal and locals changing their start of journey to the Elizabeth Line.

And also on the Greenwich/Lewisham branch of the DLR, as the Liz Line will be so much faster for anyone wanting to go to Canary Wharf from Woolwich and east of there.

 

[345 050]

And also on the Greenwich/Lewisham branch of the DLR, as the Liz Line will be so much faster for anyone wanting to go to Canary Wharf from Woolwich and east of there.

Might even be faster for people coming from West of Woolwich as well, the other option being Jubilee from London Bridge, would be interesting to know if DLR is still fastest option for any station now. I guess Greenwich would be since it's just 1 train?

 

[matt_world2004]

Has anyone noticed that farringdon smells like wet mud at times?

 

[reddragon]

Has anyone noticed that farringdon smells like wet mud at times?

Haha the Fleet River / sewer runs through the station

 

[345 050]

Owing to the large numbers of passengers that EL is now pumping into Paddington, there was a sizeable queue and noticeable delay to get through the gate into platform 11 this evening. I realise this is a temporary phenomenon until through running, but did it ever get bad pre-COVID?

Meant to say that presumably this is worse due to the longer headways between services? (Compared to Bakerloo.)

 

[ijmad]

Has anyone noticed that farringdon smells like wet mud at times?

Haha the Fleet River / sewer runs through the station

Not quite Crossrail relevant but St Pancras Thameslink has the same problem for similar reasons

 

[alf]

At many stations I particularly noticed the very wide platforms, the overlong corridors from east to west platforms & the wonderful cavern like tunnel parallel to the east & west platforms & between them.

Have they another purpose too?

They would make superb London bomb shelters at a time of crisis bring very deep too.
Have I been watching too much TV showing the bomb shelters under Ukraine cities?

 

[ijmad]

At many stations I particularly noticed the very wide platforms, the overlong corridors from east to west platforms & the wonderful cavern like tunnel parallel to the east & west platforms & between them.

Have they another purpose too?

They would make superb London bomb shelters at a time of crisis bring very deep too.
Have I been watching too much TV showing the bomb shelters under Ukraine cities?

Crossrail's planning was completed well over a decade ago, tunnelling began 2 years before Putin even invaded eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

 

[Dr Hoo]

At many stations I particularly noticed the very wide platforms, the overlong corridors from east to west platforms & the wonderful cavern like tunnel parallel to the east & west platforms & between them.

Have they another purpose too?

They would make superb London bomb shelters at a time of crisis bring very deep too.
Have I been watching too much TV showing the bomb shelters under Ukraine cities?

I presume that the ‘central corridors’ are simply to avoid the need to walk along busy platforms for any distance. General passenger flow management and a long-time feature of many underground railway systems.

 

[alf]

Crossrail's planning was completed well over a decade ago, tunnelling began 2 years before Putin even invaded eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

It doesn’t stop the 2010 planners wanting to use Crossrail as emergency bomb shelters.

 

[Horizon22]

Owing to the large numbers of passengers that EL is now pumping into Paddington, there was a sizeable queue and noticeable delay to get through the gate into platform 11 this evening. I realise this is a temporary phenomenon until through running, but did it ever get bad pre-COVID?

Meant to say that presumably this is worse due to the longer headways between services? (Compared to Bakerloo.)

Yes, especially if you have a train on Platform 10 boarding too. Quite a narrow gateline there. Pre-Covid the peak services to Reading particularly (either TfL or GWR/FGW managed) were also busy, especially when they used to be 165/166 stock!

 

[talldave]

But what are the queues for the lift going to be like once regulars figure that the lift is only the way to avoid a fair bit of walking?

Depends if they get all the lifts running. One of the pair we used was out of action last week, but nobody else seemed interested in using them.

EL trains are appreciably quiet. Not having to use the Jubilee line and having your eardrums destroyed by intense screeching is a bonus. [Surely that Jubilee noise must exceed some safe limit??]

 

[floor3013]

Intrigued to see the knock-on effects for Woolwich as well, both from reduced interchange at Woolwich Arsenal and locals changing their start of journey to the Elizabeth Line.

I haven’t measured this yet but very interested to see how nearby Plumstead (to the east) and to a lesser extent Woolwich Dockyard (to the west) also fare - these are not far at all from Woolwich and have a much reduced use case now given the very frequent local bus connections to EL (which the buses stop outside). For the vast majority of journeys the EL is now the quicker, more frequent, safer, and cheaper option vs SE. An aside but will be also be very interesting to see if any of the fare evading populations on the SE Metro convert into paying EL users.

 

[Mikey C]

I haven’t measured this yet but very interested to see how nearby Plumstead (to the east) and to a lesser extent Woolwich Dockyard (to the west) also fare - these are not far at all from Woolwich and have a much reduced use case now given the very frequent local bus connections to EL (which the buses stop outside). For the vast majority of journeys the EL is now the quicker, more frequent, safer, and cheaper option vs SE. An aside but will be also be very interesting to see if any of the fare evading populations on the SE Metro convert into paying EL users.

PAYG will be cheaper on the Liz Line due to TfL fares, but if you have a season ticket Woolwich Dockyard is Zone 3 whereas Woolwich Crossrail is Zone 4, so may be more expensive

 

[Nick66]

It will be interesting to see if the prediction of 50% transferring from SE to EL, (made in the last Kent route study), turns out to be correct, and how soon it occurs…

It will if they amend the SE/TL timetable for better connections. Gap is currently 4 minutes then 26.

 

[Falcon1200]

How is the interchange at Farringdon between Thameslink & the Elizabeth line? I’m flying from Gatwick in July so was looking at Paddington - Farringdon - Gatwick.

But what are the queues for the lift going to be like once regulars figure that the lift is only the way to avoid a fair bit of walking?

I made the connection in the opposite direction yesterday, southbound Thameslink to Elizabeth Line. As previously recommended (thanks !) I was in the very front of the Thameslink train so straight out to the lifts, however having left one lift go because it was going up, I entered the other and pressed down only for that lift to go up too, before going down again ! (it is a long way down, too). No queue for the lift, although this was at 1430. But any delay changing is more than compensated by the speed - around 7 minutes Farringdon-Paddington. The train was busy too, most alighting at Tottenham Court Road.

 

[JaJaWa]

How is the interchange at Farringdon between Thameslink & the Elizabeth line? I’m flying from Gatwick in July so was looking at Paddington - Farringdon - Gatwick.

The lift links the Thameslink southbound platform to the Elizabeth line directly, and the escalator links the Thameslink northbound platform to the Elizabeth line directly.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The lift links the Thameslink southbound platform to the Elizabeth line directly, and the escalator links the Thameslink northbound platform to the Elizabeth line directly.

Thinking about it, I guess Farringdon was possibly planned on the basis that the main EL interchange flow at Farringdon would be to/from Thameslink. There aren't that many journeys that would sensibly involve changing between EL and circle/district at Farringdon: Most people coming on Circle/H&C from the East would have changed at Liverpool Street or Whitechapel, while most Circle/H&C destinations from the West have alternatives (Northern from Euston to Tottenham Court Road, Jubilee from Baker Street to Bond Street when that opens). People travelling to/from the Metropolitan line likewise may well go Jubilee from Finchley Road to Bond Street, depending how easy the interchange at Bond Street turns out to be.

That certainly leaves some EL/circle etc. interchanges at Farringdon, but possibly not as many as Thameslink/EL interchanges.

 

[CeeJ]

I haven’t measured this yet but very interested to see how nearby Plumstead (to the east) and to a lesser extent Woolwich Dockyard (to the west) also fare - these are not far at all from Woolwich and have a much reduced use case now given the very frequent local bus connections to EL (which the buses stop outside). For the vast majority of journeys the EL is now the quicker, more frequent, safer, and cheaper option vs SE. An aside but will be also be very interesting to see if any of the fare evading populations on the SE Metro convert into paying EL users.

Interestingly I was at Abbey Wood on Tuesday and, despite a London-bound Thameslink train pulling into the station, a couple heading towards Plumstead/Woolwich area were running to cross the footbridge to board the EL train.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The core Stratford to Paddington will open this September 2022 and the 315’s are finishing this September. They are not going beyond September. This is from official sources.

It will be so useful as one through line. The interchanges at the original TfL Rail termini are rather awkward.

 

[JonathanH]

Even the 2.5 minute delay of having to change between routes in the core and then changing at Stratford should be easier than changing at Liverpool Street.

 

[pacenotes]

Took my first journey this week. I had to do a West Drayton to Stratford journey.

Train was busy from Paddington, Most got off at Liverpool street with me, I jumped on an East Anglia that was leaving 2 minutes early from Liverpool street instead of a EL. It looked like alot were doing the Paddington to Liverpool st journey. Can't wait for through running. Great to hear it might be September.

Surprisingly when I got back to Paddington a lot were heading straight back on the line going back to central London.

 

[Basil Jet]

Surprisingly when I got back to Paddington a lot were heading straight back on the line going back to central London.

... mumbling "maybe it stops at Bond Street in the other direction"

 

[ainsworth74]

Well, I had hoped to sample Crossrail this Saturday during some dead time only to discover it's shut

Was this planned engineering work?

 

[Mike395]

Well, I had hoped to sample Crossrail this Saturday during some dead time only to discover it's shut

Was this planned engineering work?

Is indeed unfortunately, I too was planning a journey involving it to kill some time this morning!

 

[ainsworth74]

Is indeed unfortunately, I too was planning a journey involving it to kill some time this morning!

Curses!