Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[43096]

A more sensible approach would be the joined up one of more Mk3s on ATW/Chiltern to release DMUs for a cascade to give Northern more Pacers/153s/156s to use on the Coast.

Those Arriva Mark 3s are not a quick fix - having been stored for well over 10 years they will need a costly and lengthy overhaul to get them back.

 

[43096]

I bet DRS wished they had stock and DVT fitted with AAR multiple working to enable the service to be operated by 68s

On a technicality, 68s are not AAR - other than 68008-015 with a "restricted" version for Chiltern - but use Wire Train Bus.

Your point stands though in terms of 68s being a better solution, but it is too late now with DBSOs converted and Northern crews trained on 37s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

*cough* D Trains?

 

[Whistler40145]

On a technicality, 68s are not AAR - other than 68008-015 with a "restricted" version for Chiltern - but use Wire Train Bus.

Your point stands though in terms of 68s being a better solution, but it is too late now with DBSOs converted and Northern crews trained on 37s.

Indeed, DRS just need to get sufficient 37s in working order to work all diagrams.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I bet DRS wished they had stock and DVT fitted with AAR multiple working to enable the service to be operated by 68s

Couldn't they top and tail?

*cough* D Trains?

Or more 319 conversions to release 156s to the Coast.

It's quite possibly one where D-trains would fit quite well, though. Quiet most of the time (so the original seating layout would be fine), busy at Sellafield commuter times (so the standing capacity of the original layout would work). A bit like the Marston Vale school trains.

 

[43096]

*cough* D Trains?

Which are completely unproven in service. If they took D trains there is a very big risk they would be just as unreliable as the DRS stock.

 

[47802]

Couldn't they top and tail?



Or more 319 conversions to release 156s to the Coast.

It's quite possibly one where D-trains would fit quite well, though. Quiet most of the time (so the original seating layout would be fine), busy at Sellafield commuter times (so the standing capacity of the original layout would work). A bit like the Marston Vale school trains.

I don't think so for 2 plus hour journey down the coast the original seating layout would not do fine.

 

[Whistler40145]

Oh dear me, I couldn't think of anything worse than sitting in a D Train around the Cumbrian Coast, shorter distances would be fine, but the seating layout wouldn't even compare to that of the Mark 2s on the Loco Hauled sets, let alone 150s, 156s

 

[yorksrob]

Oh dear me, I couldn't think of anything worse than sitting in a D Train around the Cumbrian Coast, shorter distances would be fine, but the seating layout wouldn't even compare to that of the Mark 2s on the Loco Hauled sets, let alone 150s, 156s

Merseyrail Pacer round the Cumbrian Coast, without a doubt !

 

[Whistler40145]

Merseyrail Pacer round the Cumbrian Coast, without a doubt !

Whilst you can

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think so for 2 plus hour journey down the coast the original seating layout would not do fine.

Most people are making local journeys, and for those who aren't there are bays of 2+2 facing seating which are quite comfortable and well-spaced. Much more comfortable than, say, a 153 for amputees, or bus seats in a 142.

 

[Rhydgaled]

With all this talk of (un)reliability, has anyone thought to ask how the Anglia top-and-tailed 37s are doing? Are they failing as often as the Northern ones?

 

[43096]

Indeed, DRS just need to get sufficient 37s in working order to work all diagrams.

Something that they have clearly been incapable of doing for the duration of the contract so far. Can't see it changing, tbh!

 

[IanXC]

With all this talk of (un)reliability, has anyone thought to ask how the Anglia top-and-tailed 37s are doing? Are they failing as often as the Northern ones?

The ones operating on a much more suitable route, and with an insurance policy in the shape of another loco coupled to the back? Not much better tbf. Seems they don't make the news because the disruption caused is inherently easier to resolve.

 

[47802]

Most people are making local journeys, and for those who aren't there are bays of 2+2 facing seating which are quite comfortable and well-spaced. Much more comfortable than, say, a 153 for amputees, or bus seats in a 142.

do you actually travel on this route?, from what I have seen some people making quite long local journeys, quite a few tourists and I don't mean 37 enthusiasts who make quite long and short journeys and actually want to see the route, see out the windows, and have a reasonably comfortable journey not sit on an ex metro train staring into the carriage, 156's are ok for the route D trains no thanks, and certainly not ones with an unmodified metro interior.

These trains are planned to be replaced in 2019 anyway by which time Northern should have enough units so in the intrim either DRS get a good kicking to sort these trains out or another solution is found.

 

[Roose]

Popular 'Local journeys' include Carlisle to Sellafield (1h35), Barrow to Sellafield (1h10). Millom to Barrow (35 mins) on the coast and - for the odd LHCS jaunts on the Furness line - Grange to Barrow 40 mins) and Lancaster (25+ mins).

Well they were popular but a number of longer distance commuters switched to road as the farce developed.

 

[HLE]

A shame Roose, but then you provide 50 year old relics on passenger services and expect the normal timetable to be kept to.....and look at what happens - road gains over rail.

 

[Fleetwoodflyer]

Well the DRS solution at the moment seems to be throwing yet more 37s at the problem. 37716 has been modified so it can work t-a-t at GA and 37409 has been authorised an 'F' exam at Loram.

Meanwhile 37407 still languishes at Derby .... :roll:

Good news that 37409 has been authorised an exam. Have been waiting for weeks for this to happen!

 

[47802]

The Loco Hauls seem to have run to time yesterday presumably because they wern't Loco Hauls It would appear that the evening train out of Lancaster did get cancelled due to staffing issues.

 

[QueensCurve]

Some interesting points above. There is an online picture which appears to show one of the loco hauled sets entering Carlisle piloted by a Class 66.

Why is it the Workington drivers dislike the Class 37s? Could something be done to make them accept the sets?

Also I understand that the DBSOs were modified to mimic the controls of the Class 37. Presumably this puts an impediment in the way of replacing the Class 37s with something else?

When the Class 37 powered sets are working properly they do seem to be very capable of keeping to or ahead of time. They are very comfortable to sets to ride in and could be good for the route if they performed better.

2 or 3 weeks ago I saw a young woman boarding the train at Whitehaven saying "it's one of the slow ones" and expressing concern for when she would arrive. It is a pity they have such a bad reputation.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Wow the 37's managed an entire day without breaking down lucky you.

That's hyperbole. I have not kept a record, but I'm sure that since introduction the LHCS trains have worked to time (or withing a few minutes of time) on a majority of days.

The problems, however, when they occur they often affect one of the first two trains of the day - ruiining people's ability to get to work/school on time and, for those seeking to get out of the area for long distance travel, making a complete mess of the day by not getting to Preston or Carlisle within 60 mins of time.

And these failures typically have a seriously damaging knock-on effect eg caping the first down train immediately translates into the cancellation of the 08.42 ex-Carlisle, the first 'daytime' (as opposed to early morning commuter time) train from the nothern stations to the coast and into Barrow.

Ive been up their probably around 15 times since they started running, experienced 1 failure while on the train, 1 cancellation, and 2 DMU substitutions, but its hardly a scientific observation.

I'd say that would actually be about right statistically. I'm pleased to see they could find DMU substitutions.

The point [being] overall performance over the past weeks has gone from not particularly good to unacceptable.

That (unlike your first statement) is fair comment.

 

[70014IronDuke]

He also said that some DBSO's only work with certain 37's and vice versa, apparently it's very little known about and little recorded so when the sets are assembled at night they've just got to hope it works come morning.

Well, if true, that's ridiculous. Surely a record of which sets work and which don't (and from which ends) could soon be drawn up and the problems vastly reduced before being investigated.

 

[47802]

2 or 3 weeks ago I saw a young woman boarding the train at Whitehaven saying "it's one of the slow ones" and expressing concern for when she would arrive. It is a pity they have such a bad reputation.

On a Leeds Morecambe train a couple of months ago an elderly couple were going up to Ravenglass for the day but instead of changing at Carnforth for the next available to Barrow they opted to go to Lancaster and catch the next train after mine as its a through train and they didn't have to change Barrow, but they also qualified it with comment that if they got the earlier train, the train from Barrow would be one of the old 37 trains which break down a lot. Oh on the way back their through train from Carlisle was terminated at Barrow so that it could cover for a 37 that failed.

From an enthusiasts viewpoint I think its fantastic that they are running this route, but if I was using these trains to get to work I be livid.

 

[QueensCurve]

On a Leeds Morecambe train a couple of months ago an elderly couple were going up to Ravenglass for the day but instead of changing at Carnforth for the next available to Barrow they opted to go to Lancaster and catch the next train after mine as its a through train and they didn't have to change Barrow, but they also qualified it with comment that if they got the earlier train, the train from Barrow would be one of the old 37 trains which break down a lot. Oh on the way back their through train from Carlisle was terminated at Barrow so that it could cover for a 37 that failed.

From an enthusiasts viewpoint I think its fantastic that they are running this route, but if I was using these trains to get to work I be livid.

It remains sad that this service can't be made to work properly. The Class 37s definitely seem too long in the tooth and an alternative should be found.

It is interesting to note that in recent years the number of people commuting to Sellafield by rail seems to have increased greatly. No doubt that is helped by recent restrictions to on-site parking. A lot of those converts to rail may soon revert.

 

[Cumberlandkev]

Can anyone tell me if the 37's have resumed service today please?

 

[Spartacus]

Can anyone tell me if the 37's have resumed service today please?

Yes, 37423 & 3724 are out, though 37423 disgraced itself early on with low oil pressure at Lancaster but is back working again.

 

[47802]

Yes, 37423 & 3724 are out, though 37423 disgraced itself early on with low oil pressure at Lancaster but is back working again.

"Normal Service" resumed then

 

[Cumberlandkev]

Yes, 37423 & 3724 are out, though 37423 disgraced itself early on with low oil pressure at Lancaster but is back working again.

Thank you very much. I feel the need for an early revisit!

 

[RichmondCommu]

My youngest son has just joined the graduate scheme at Sellafield and will be living in Whitehaven. Sadly he's decided not to buy a season ticket to travel by train on the advice of people who work at the plant because the service is so unreliable.

 

[Cumberlandkev]

My youngest son has just joined the graduate scheme at Sellafield and will be living in Whitehaven. Sadly he's decided not to buy a season ticket to travel by train on the advice of people who work at the plant because the service is so unreliable.

I would suggest giving it a go for a week or two and getting a feel for how it actually is. The road journey is pretty unreliable too! I wish your lad every success with the apprenticeship.