HarleyDavidson
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Diverted trains passing crowded platforms at speed
- Thread starter notverydeep
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They should have been safe then. It would be unpleasant to be too near the yellow line, but not unsafe.
If I see notice beyond the yellow line at a location where fast trains approach I will often tell people to stand back. e.g. at Gatwick Airport platform 4 (100mph line speed, I believe) I have asked tourists to stand back.
I think in this case, the use of the horn would be wise, as the other drivers did.
One to be noted for my rules exam which is very soon!
It's hard to keep track of the changes now as it's only once a year now - December we get updates. I've got my rules soon aswell so will have to dig out 2 years worth of updated modules and get reading
Sunset route
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90mph for Gatwick, when they were doing the 377 110% overspeed tests for th commissioning during the night, Gatwick platforms 3/4 and 5/6 had to be closed to the public and confirmed to be clear before we were allowed to clear our signals for the tests.
Adlington
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Off topic, but what are the times for trams? Was in Croydon today and took the tram to/from New Addington and the driver didn't take any notice of the whistle board (I assume that's what they were? A W in a diamond) either way.
If the mean something else, that would explain it!
mirodo
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W is for Warning, IIRC.
matt_world2004
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From observation, London Underground appear to have a slow approach speed when coming into a crowded platform.
tsr
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90mph is quite fast enough. The platform staff are pretty good at being aware of the risks (and they also do report most occasions when the automated announcements fail to warn people of a fast train approaching) but there's a limit to what can be done without diverting trains altogether.
If there were more non-stoppers it might be worth putting gates and barriers along that platform and diverting stopping services to another, but capacity is not that generous and the fresh air wagons have to terminate somewhere...
Bromley boy
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I must say I'm surprised at this given there are many platforms in the southeast which have trains passing through at speeds in excess of 90 mph, with absolutely no protection other than the usual yellow lines and warning posters.
Are the Gatwick platforms especially narrow?
Also, did 319s have a dispensation to run at 100mph on some parts of the BML?
A driver is entitled to drive his train at whatever the linespeed is for the station he happens to be passing through.
If any unfortunate incident occurred, the only person I'd have any sympathy for would be the driver himself, certainly not for stupid people who don't have the intelligence to stand back when a fast train approaches. Most platforms are long enough for people to spread out and create more space, they don't have to stand in a block which is so deep it reaches the platform edge!
If any unfortunate incident occurred, the only person I'd have any sympathy for would be the driver himself, certainly not for stupid people who don't have the intelligence to stand back when a fast train approaches. Most platforms are long enough for people to spread out and create more space, they don't have to stand in a block which is so deep it reaches the platform edge!
Bromley boy
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No chance.
Some tube lines run on moving block ATO so may enter platforms more slowly during busy periods due to following other trains. Absolutely nothing to do with crowding levels.
It’s the same as the mainline. Horn (or kettle whistle) and emergency brake if necessary.
No matter where you go on a platform with passing trains there's always an attendant risk and to me the OP doesn't sound particularly concerning.
Case in point - I once was in the back cab of my train passing Levenshulme at about 70 mph on the down fast, with the down slow between me and the platform where a local service was due.
Unfortunately my train reached a conflict point with a pigeon. As my train weighed around 150 tonnes as opposed to a few hundred grams for said fowl, it sadly departed this world - unfortunately for those on the platform it shot into a lamp post as it did so and showered them in feathers and bits of disintegrating carcass. Had the carcass scored a direct hit on one of their heads it could have been fairly serious but it didn't and so life went on, except for the pigeon of course (who despite my tone I did and do feel sorry for - animals don't choose to get hit by trains and when they do it generally takes their life from them which is the only thing they have. But there you are).
Risks are abundant on the railway and they do have a habit of sneaking up on you.
Case in point - I once was in the back cab of my train passing Levenshulme at about 70 mph on the down fast, with the down slow between me and the platform where a local service was due.
Unfortunately my train reached a conflict point with a pigeon. As my train weighed around 150 tonnes as opposed to a few hundred grams for said fowl, it sadly departed this world - unfortunately for those on the platform it shot into a lamp post as it did so and showered them in feathers and bits of disintegrating carcass. Had the carcass scored a direct hit on one of their heads it could have been fairly serious but it didn't and so life went on, except for the pigeon of course (who despite my tone I did and do feel sorry for - animals don't choose to get hit by trains and when they do it generally takes their life from them which is the only thing they have. But there you are).
Risks are abundant on the railway and they do have a habit of sneaking up on you.
What a condescending attitude, some of these "stupid people" might not realise a fast train is approaching.
Island platforms at busy times, Gatwick Airport and Stevenage have been mentioned and Bromley South is another example although most trains do stop there.
Totally agree with you here. Common sense should take place here.
matt_world2004
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Nope this was happening today at liverpool street when there were gaps in service causing there to be large crowds on the platform.I also saw it happen at kings cross on new years eve.
Bromley boy
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Could this be due to exceptional crowding on these platforms, where trains have been cautioned? NYE and long gaps in the service would be prime candidates for this.
In normal running the busyness of the platform won’t have any effect on entry speed. 30+ tph on the Vic line during rush hour wouldn’t be possible if it did!
In normal running the busyness of the platform won’t have any effect on entry speed. 30+ tph on the Vic line during rush hour wouldn’t be possible if it did!
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Bromley boy
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I disagree it’s condescending. The reality is that people are made fully aware of the danger, but still ignore the warnings.
Bromley South is a case in point - I often go through platform 1 at 60mph on a regular empties movement.
Precisely because most trains stop here there are always clear announcements of a fast train approaching. Yet, still people choose to stand far too close to the platform edge!
Unless we slow the entire network to a permenant crawl or build platform edge doors at every single station we will have to deal with some level of risk.
I thought the way it was worded was condescending in the extreme although people do need to take responsibility.
At Bromley South I have seen fast trains come through without prior warning and as I'm sure you're aware the island platforms can become very crowded particularly platform 3/4 where most fast services to Victoria depart from. I've often thought Bromley South would be a prime candidate for platform edge gates although how practical that would be with various types of trains stopping there is another matter.
Platform 13 at Clapham Junction and platform 3 at East Croydon are other examples with Gatwick Express's passing crowded platforms although often they are slowed by the preceding train.
Do you really think anybody sets out with the intention of standing beyond the yellow line? Some platforms can be so crowded it can be difficult to avoid doing so. Even behind the yellow line people can be uncomfortably close to fast moving trains.
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Bletchleyite
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From observation yes.
If you're surprised by a train passing through a platform, or even worse hurt by it then I'm sorry but you're stupid. End of. Stay away until your train has stopped. It's not difficult.
How anyone can think anything other than that is staggering and frustrating.
As I said, even behind the yellow line people can be uncomfortably close to fast moving trains.
Try standing on St Albans City platform 3 (up fast) waiting for a train at around 08:00. Despite warnings, before arrival, passengers are usually packed from the yellow line back to the buildings walls (less than 6 ft) and there is a constant stream down the stairs trying to spread along the 12-car length of the platform just to stand a chance of getting on the train. Fast up trains (either HSTs or 222s) approach, often coasting at around 90mph from behing the line of sight, - the platform is on the inside of a long sweeping bend. Despite drivers sounding a warning as the platform is approached, other noise such as the frequent passage of fast trains on the opposite down platform can even defeat the effectiveness warning sounding and often the reaction of waiting passengers who have no alternative but to stand up to the limit of the yellow line is one of surprise and even shock.
What should these stupid passengers do?
Bromley boy
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(My emphasis)
Yes many, many people do this even when the platform isn't crowded at all. There's usually several at every station, even off peak.
DarloRich
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I know - i just think an audible approach warning has some merit. After all commuters can be like sheep................
Continue to crowd to the point they fall onto the tracks it seems..? If you're behind the line then all is good, beyond it not so.
I don't need to try it. I see that from the front every day there on the aforementioned fast up trains.
Such an odd defensive attitude from a lot of people when all we want to do is go home without the stress of our trains killing people.
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Rather than a reasoned discussion about it lets just smugly brand all passengers as stupid eh?
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