Do trains use mobile technology in the cab?

[richieb1971]

Its 2015, everyone has an android or Apple device or a Satnav.

So have trains adopted any of this technology? Will a desiro have a phone charger in the cab? Is there a satnav device showing miles to next stop?

What other technologies have been introduced in the past 3 or so years?


This is cab only i'm interested in.

 

[D365]

I don't know if this counts, but I've been in the cab of a German lightweight DMU, where the driver had a (presumably company-issue) Android phone, which he was using to manually play back on-train announcements through some kind of USB interface...

In terms of on-train monitoring or in-cab data systems, I imagine 3G/4G data networks are widely made use of.

 

[neilb62]

Some have a standard 3 pin socket in the cab but as mobiles MUST be switched off in the cab this can be used to charge an Android device but not Apple. Some companies use iPads to provide schedule information to the Driver but there are no 'sat nav' sort of devices, that's all in the Drivers head.

 

[driver9000]

Generally, no. Some companies issue their drivers with tablets for things like weekly notices, rulebooks and Virgin have been trialing one which monitors the timekeeping of the train. GBRf have a similar thing but how they actually work I wouldn't know as my company doesn't use them. Drivers don't need satnav or a display stating x miles to station A as we are fully trained in route knowledge and know exactly where are on the line. ScotRail and GWR have trialled a system known as Driver advisory system which displays the optimum power setting for economic driving of a train running on time. I think Freightliner have fitted it to some of their 66s too. My company doesn't use it so I'm not overly familiar with it.

GSMR radio is the latest nationwide introduction to the cab which works in the same way a mobile phone does. It's a vast improvement over the old NRN radio.

Some cabs have a 3 pin socket in the cab - the 350 being an example but again these aren't common and a mobile phone charging socket would bring in a temptation to use a phone which aren't permitted to be used in a driving cab when driving.

 

[ComUtoR]

Driver Advisory System is a recent addition to modern trains. Not used one personally but I've seen it in the cab of a 387 (not currently in use)

 

[neilb62]

We've trialled DAS and personally I found it very useful but at the moment it's been withdrawn pending agreement and updates.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

No phone chargers in the cab, but you can buy powerbanks on Amazon which you can connect to a phone to charge it whilst on the move, the proviso as previously stated is that the phone is turned off.

I do know some folk who use "Aircraft Mode" on a smartphone which disconnects the phone from the mobile network, so it can't receive calls etc instead of being off, which is fine if you want to waste your battery!

SW are to shortly introduce C-DAS, the latest version of DAS, it will apparently be connected to (hence the C), NR's TMS & will have the drivers details on it when it boots up, you just configure it to train length and you can add or remove stops on it and all sorts of things, even TSRs, ESRs, plus loads of stuff which I've already forgotten and best of you can even blank it out if you don't want it.

Many drivers see it as a spy in the cab and have said "It'll be blank" & "Don't want it on" and I concur with that wholeheartedly. I just see it as a distraction. So it will be blank with me too!

We're also meant to be getting an iPad or Android tablet and they can shove that too, as they'll have tracking devices in them, just as the normal iPad & Android devices do and I won't have that because of the fear that you comply with all electronic devices off in the cab, you put it in your bag and en-route the bag falls over or gets knocked and it gets knocked on, the management then know that the tablet is on in the cab and whilst the train is moving so they'll just come along and sack you. So NO TABLET either.

 

[fairysdad]

Some have a standard 3 pin socket in the cab but as mobiles MUST be switched off in the cab this can be used to charge an Android device but not Apple. Some companies use iPads to provide schedule information to the Driver but there are no 'sat nav' sort of devices, that's all in the Drivers head.

Sorry for going offtopic so soon into a thread, but I'm not an Apple user - does what you say mean that an iPhone or an iPad can't charge if it's switched off?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You can charge them whilst they're off as far as I know.

 

[neilb62]

Sorry for going offtopic so soon into a thread, but I'm not an Apple user - does what you say mean that an iPhone or an iPad can't charge if it's switched off?

Both iPhones and iPads switch on as soon as you plug them in.

 

[D365]

Both iPhones and iPads switch on as soon as you plug them in.

Haven't tried in a while, but I think you can switch an iPhone/iPad back off and it will continue to charge, so long as it remains plugged in. I think the 'boot on charge' feature is for the benefit of those whose 'sleep button' is faulty.

 

[scotraildriver]

No phone chargers in the cab, but you can buy powerbanks on Amazon which you can connect to a phone to charge it whilst on the move, the proviso as previously stated is that the phone is turned off.

I do know some folk who use "Aircraft Mode" on a smartphone which disconnects the phone from the mobile network, so it can't receive calls etc instead of being off, which is fine if you want to waste your battery!

SW are to shortly introduce C-DAS, the latest version of DAS, it will apparently be connected to (hence the C), NR's TMS & will have the drivers details on it when it boots up, you just configure it to train length and you can add or remove stops on it and all sorts of things, even TSRs, ESRs, plus loads of stuff which I've already forgotten and best of you can even blank it out if you don't want it.

Many drivers see it as a spy in the cab and have said "It'll be blank" & "Don't want it on" and I concur with that wholeheartedly. I just see it as a distraction. So it will be blank with me too!

We're also meant to be getting an iPad or Android tablet and they can shove that too, as they'll have tracking devices in them, just as the normal iPad & Android devices do and I won't have that because of the fear that you comply with all electronic devices off in the cab, you put it in your bag and en-route the bag falls over or gets knocked and it gets knocked on, the management then know that the tablet is on in the cab and whilst the train is moving so they'll just come along and sack you. So NO TABLET either.

A somewhat cynical view and one which was shared by many people here. However I would encourage you to give it a chance. Das has hugely reduced fail to calls and stop shorts due to the reminders of next stop and train length. It also reduces the amount of time spent under restrictive signalling and the potential for spads. Equally the tablets have their uses. It's not difficult to ensure its turned off in the cab but being able to access fault finding/traction info quickly and request lieu days or shift swaps from home is handy. You always have up to date WON and PON/ late notices/ ESRs . It actually works well. So far no one here has had anyone spying on them....

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A somewhat cynical view and one which was shared by many people here. However I would encourage you to give it a chance. Das has hugely reduced fail to calls and stop shorts due to the reminders of next stop and train length. It also reduces the amount of time spent under restrictive signalling and the potential for spads. Equally the tablets have their uses. It's not difficult to ensure its turned off in the cab but being able to access fault finding/traction info quickly and request lieu days or shift swaps from home is habndy. You always have up to date WON and PON/ late notices/ ESRs . It actually works well. So far no one here has had anyone spying on them....

Nah, not a hope in hell of me using it, it will be blanked, I'm waiting for it to appear in the cab so I can measure it up to fit a removable cover over it as a backup in case the touchscreen doesn't work properly.

My last F2C was over 12 years ago now and I needn't worry about missing stations out anyway as 95% of our services call at all stations anyway and the 455/456s aren't going to be fitted with it either, so that's not going to be an issue, the tablet will be left in the locker.

WONS & PONS, haven't read one in months, the last time I did there was just one page that was relevant to us and the rest was binned, WONS are just as irrelevant, they never tell us anything that we don't already know via the depot VDU screen.

 

[neilb62]

The ultimate plan for ours is that it becomes the drivers personal depot using it to book on and off, book leave and receive all relevant daily details. So in effect if we decided not to use it we wouldn't get paid!

 

[scotraildriver]

The ultimate plan for ours is that it becomes the drivers personal depot using it to book on and off, book leave and receive all relevant daily details. So in effect if we decided not to use it we wouldn't get paid!

Indeed. Like it or not people will HAVE to use their tablets or they wont be able to book leave, shift swaps etc. There is still a dual system but it will be removed eventually. Plus it means carrying virtually nothing about in your kit bag. No traction manuals, working timetables etc

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The ultimate plan for ours is that it becomes the drivers personal depot using it to book on and off, book leave and receive all relevant daily details. So in effect if we decided not to use it we wouldn't get paid!

Of course you would. You just turn it on login to get signed on, once done turn it off and place in locker.

If your staff reps are any good they just do some copies of the diagrams for each driver, no need to refer to the tablet again.

I carry a small tablet (my own) and it has the diagrams, traction manuals etc in, but it also has my music collection, a couple of films, the complete Breaking Bad series in, plus a couple of books and that's all on one MiSDXC card, plus it had full Internet access too and it's mine and the location function is disabled.

 

[neilb62]

The thing is our lots plan is remote booking on, ergo not at Home Depot so no locker.....

 

[richieb1971]

If the route is in your head, does that mean you could be put at a random place on your line and you would know exactly where you are?

If its dark, I fail to see how you would know where you are at all. The only observed point is the last station you were at. I think the signals are numbered so that might give clues.

I drive to work everyday, but on a foggy night I often cannot see where I am and I am sure train drivers get that too.

 

[scotraildriver]

If the route is in your head, does that mean you could be put at a random place on your line and you would know exactly where you are?

If its dark, I fail to see how you would know where you are at all. The only observed point is the last station you were at. I think the signals are numbered so that might give clues.

I drive to work everyday, but on a foggy night I often cannot see where I am and I am sure train drivers get that too.

Yes. Train drivers know precisely where they are at all times. We need to know where our braking points are for signals, status, speed restrictions regardless of the weather. Even in the thickest fog at 100mph you must know exactly where you are. Drivers can use landmarks, signals, milepost, bumps in the track, curves, straights, houses and virtually anything else to maintain their location. That's why route learning is the biggest part of driver training and highly skilled, something that is lost on the public in general.

 

[BestWestern]

Both iPhones and iPads switch on as soon as you plug them in.

You can, however, then switch then back off again!

 

[GB]

GBRf have a similar thing but how they actually work I wouldn't know as my company doesn't use them.

GBRf developed their own app that when logged into connects to a central server that contains everything you need to do your job. Using the iPad you can also submit fault reports and loco prep reports so that the data is collated in real time. TAS is also on there as are company emails.

Quite clever considering 7 or 8 years ago we were still using home fax machines to get rosters and notices.

Some of our locos have a 12v cigarette type charging connection but with the right adapter you can use the 75V DC connection that all the locos have. Theres also an ongoing program to fit overhead cradles for the tablet to sit in which has its own power connection.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Yes. Train drivers know precisely where they are at all times. We need to know where our braking points are for signals, status, speed restrictions regardless of the weather. Even in the thickest fog at 100mph you must know exactly where you are. Drivers can use landmarks, signals, milepost, bumps in the track, curves, straights, houses and virtually anything else to maintain their location. That's why route learning is the biggest part of driver training and highly skilled, something that is lost on the public in general.

cue the usual "haha but you only go in a straight line" idiots.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

GBRf developed their own app that when logged into connects to a central server that contains everything you need to do your job. Using the iPad you can also submit fault reports and loco prep reports so that the data is collated in real time. TAS is also on there as are company emails.

Quite clever considering 7 or 8 years ago we were still using home fax machines to get rosters and notices.

Some of our locos have a 12v cigarette type charging connection but with the right adapter you can use the 75V DC connection that all the locos have. Theres also an ongoing program to fit overhead cradles for the tablet to sit in which has its own power connection.

Does that mean you can plug in your portable TV & watch Jeremy Kyle whilst going along?

 

[TDK]

I have used and am still using DAS, it will show you the station stops, you location to the nearest Chain when at as stand, it will inform you when approaching a station, it will inform you of the advised speed and when to coast to save on fuel, all in all it is a good device when working correctly, it uses GPS positioning and a database of the routes and timetables to work.

 

[Domh245]

Does that mean you can plug in your portable TV & watch Jeremy Kyle whilst going along?

You've got me thinking. What do freight drivers usually do during extended stops at junctions whilst awaiting a path. Do you double check the train routing and such, or do you just pull out a good novel and a flask of tea?

 

[plastictaffy]

Some cabs have a 3 pin socket in the cab - the 350 being an example but again these aren't common and a mobile phone charging socket would bring in a temptation to use a phone which aren't permitted to be used in a driving cab when driving.

Our 350's don't, but Northern's might.

 

[GB]

You've got me thinking. What do freight drivers usually do during extended stops at junctions whilst awaiting a path.

...depending on the length of the stop....anything you like basically.

 

[D365]

...depending on the length of the stop....anything you like basically.

Is it the Class 66 that came factory-fitted with a cooking stove in either/each cab?

 

[GB]

Yes, hotplate either end.

 

[BurtonM]

Our 350's don't, but Northern's might.

Northern 350? Not in this century!