Driver Jobs - realistic prospects

[tiptoptaff]

Hi all,

Me again - hands up if you're fed up of me......

Anyway.
I am currently 19, and I am seeing a lot of recruiting drives for drivers at the moment. None of which I can apply for yet ( ). What are the realistic prospects, would you all think, of being able to get a driving job, at my young age (when I turn 21) in the next 3-5+ years? Especially in the South West/Wales area. I hear there's a big FGW drive ongoing and I guess that could be a way in, but with franchises up in the air, is it going to make it harder to get a job, or will the mini extensions make it easier?
And is there anything I can do to enhance my prospects, if I fail to get a job on the railways before I become a driver as a guard or RPI, gateline or similar?

Any and all advice will be welcomed and appriciated.

Thanks,
Keiran

 

[W230]

There is nothing to stop you going straight into a driver job once you're old enough (well, apart from the competition!) or you could apply for other jobs on the railways first and go from there. You'll have to decide what you want to do. Might depend on what you're doing now, your qualifications/job prospects etc. As for SW/Wales, there will obviously be less jobs because there are less services/people in that part of the country. Less vacanices will come up and when they do they could well be more over subscribed than suburban TOCs.

I do think it is harder for younger recruits to get in off the street but it certainly isn't impossible - there was a 21 year old on my trainee driver course anyway!

 

[tlionhart]

I wouldn't worry about it for now. Of course there will be future recruitment. I would look at getting a job with TOC. As a guard or other customer service role. Also some vacancies only appear internally and never make it on the jobs section to the general public. You've got to start somewhere, so I would be looking to gain skills that would support my application. In addition to this, just because there is a vacancy, it won't necessarily mean you'll get an interview even if your application or CV ticks all the boxes.

 

[sidekick]

I've just got on at FTPE as a trainee driver, and I'm not that much older than you! This was the first railway job I applied to, so it's definitely possible.

To pass the assessments and interviews, I had to call upon several extremely varied jobs and my education. I would suggest from my experience that the key would be you need a decent amount of work experience/life experiences to get through the assessment process and interviews. If your aim is to go straight to driver, perhaps take a look at the assessment process and work out what skills you need to develop to pass and then being pro-active aim to get yourself into job roles that will help you in the future. I'm sure you could get in at 21 if you planned well!

Obviously this is just my experience, I can't speak for others. I know there are a few internals going on the course I am starting so stepping your way up through the inside is obviously possible too!

 

[E&W Lucas]

I've just got on at FTPE as a trainee driver, and I'm not that much older than you! This was the first railway job I applied to, so it's definitely possible.

To pass the assessments and interviews, I had to call upon several extremely varied jobs and my education. I would suggest from my experience that the key would be you need a decent amount of work experience/life experiences to get through the assessment process and interviews. If your aim is to go straight to driver, perhaps take a look at the assessment process and work out what skills you need to develop to pass and then being pro-active aim to get yourself into job roles that will help you in the future. I'm sure you could get in at 21 if you planned well!

Obviously this is just my experience, I can't speak for others. I know there are a few internals going on the course I am starting so stepping your way up through the inside is obviously possible too!

Absolutely spot on!

It's a competency based selection process, so identify what skills they are looking for, and go out and get them. Perfectly possible to get into management roles in the service industres at a young age; that will tick off most of the competency boxes, provided you've got the mechanical and concentration aptitude. Also depends on the maturity of the individual.

KeiranNewberry - what are you doing in real life at the moment?

 

[daddy_badger]

as you are young, try a platform post that way you won't have to wait 3 years to apply and there is no guarentee of jobs advertised externally in that time. I know virgin advertise for trainee drivers internally.

 

[Silv1983]

If I were you one route i'd explore is to join the local police force as a special constable. A few years in you'll have shed loads of examples of almost all the core competencies that they're looking for, with added confidence for interviews to boot.

 

[FlamTap]

If I were you one route i'd explore is to join the local police force as a special constable. A few years in you'll have shed loads of examples of almost all the core competencies that they're looking for, with added confidence for interviews to boot.

Excellent advice! With the CBI getting tougher it will soon become impossible to pass it without a full gamut of relevant life experience.

 

[daddy_badger]

ooh there is a CBI for the specials by the way. but not as near the same as a trainee driver. if you are successful at being a special you will have follow rules and procedures, deal with emergencies although not driving with blues and twos, do a course that lasts more than 2 weeks in fact that will be on going as you have competencies to achieve, oh that in itself is an achievement. I think that's the trainee drivers cbi sorted then.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Absolutely spot on!

It's a competency based selection process, so identify what skills they are looking for, and go out and get them. Perfectly possible to get into management roles in the service industres at a young age; that will tick off most of the competency boxes, provided you've got the mechanical and concentration aptitude. Also depends on the maturity of the individual.

KeiranNewberry - what are you doing in real life at the moment?

E&W Lucas - I'm an office worker -.- So I don't get any of the experiences needed for Driving. No experience of shift work either, which when looking at some rail jobs they ask for. I work 9 to 5 every day, and some ****ing student does 4 hours on a Saturday and they're the one more suited becuase of "shift work"?!. But I do volunteer on a steam railway, so I have *some* railway experience. Don't know if it counts for anything on the 'big' railway mind...

 

[daddy_badger]

ooh there is a CBI for the specials by the way. but not as near the same as a trainee driver. if you are successful at being a special you will have follow rules and procedures, deal with emergencies although not driving with blues and twos, do a course that lasts more than 2 weeks in fact that will be on going as you have competencies to achieve, oh that in itself is an achievement. I think that's the trainee drivers cbi sorted then.

 

[TDK]

Hi all,

Me again - hands up if you're fed up of me......

Anyway.
I am currently 19, and I am seeing a lot of recruiting drives for drivers at the moment. None of which I can apply for yet ( ). What are the realistic prospects, would you all think, of being able to get a driving job, at my young age (when I turn 21) in the next 3-5+ years? Especially in the South West/Wales area. I hear there's a big FGW drive ongoing and I guess that could be a way in, but with franchises up in the air, is it going to make it harder to get a job, or will the mini extensions make it easier?
And is there anything I can do to enhance my prospects, if I fail to get a job on the railways before I become a driver as a guard or RPI, gateline or similar?

Any and all advice will be welcomed and appriciated.

Thanks,
Keiran

You have the same chance as anyone however you will be lacking in much of the criteria required, shifts, working alone, customer service etc so you may not get through the initial sift. Go for a rail related job now, at 19 there are many jobs that you can do and this in turn will give you the required experience for when you are 21!

 

[Sammy h]

as you are young, try a platform post that way you won't have to wait 3 years to apply and there is no guarentee of jobs advertised externally in that time. I know virgin advertise for trainee drivers internally.

Not often, this is the first time for years they have advertised trainee drivers.

 

[badassunicorn]

I'm 21 and passed out 3 months ago as a Depot Driver ^_^

 

[Sammy h]

as you are young, try a platform post that way you won't have to wait 3 years to apply and there is no guarentee of jobs advertised externally in that time. I know virgin advertise for trainee drivers internally.

Not often, this is the first time for years they have advertised trainee drivers.

 

[Beveridges]

I'm 21 and passed out 3 months ago as a Depot Driver ^_^

Thats excellent

I wish I got my DD job at the minimum required age

 

[the sniper]

If I were you one route i'd explore is to join the local police force as a special constable. A few years in you'll have shed loads of examples of almost all the core competencies that they're looking for, with added confidence for interviews to boot.

Good call, but you do need to have a personal character that fits the role. Your heart also has to be in it. Why just local police force though? My BTP experiences were perfect for my Guard's interview.

With BTP you'd also get to go to all sorts of interesting railway places, though try not to out yourself as a spotter if you are one!

 

[Latecomer]

I'm not sure that I agree with the whole get a rail related job approach. Of course do so if you feel that you would enjoy one of those roles but I think to do so just to improve your chances of becoming a driver is the wrong approach. There is no guarantee that you would pass the driver assessments having spent a few years in another job on the railways.

I'm not knocking other rail related jobs - go for one if you think you would enjoy it. There are however many other professions that provide valuable skills and experience that would support your application process and might even give you a better opportunity of passing some of the assessments.

I personally didn't fancy any other job on the railway. You are still young so there's no harm in trying a variety of jobs but don't choose the railways exclusively because you want to get a driver position. You could potentially spend wasted years without achieving your ultimate goal and you could miss out on other things you might be suited to that could provide equally valid experience towards your ultimate dream later on.

TOC's do take on young trainees but a level of maturity that often comes with a few years in a job that stretches your abilities (and perhaps a training course or two) is no bad thing.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I'm not sure that I agree with the whole get a rail related job approach. Of course do so if you feel that you would enjoy one of those roles but I think to do so just to improve your chances of becoming a driver is the wrong approach. There is no guarantee that you would pass the driver assessments having spent a few years in another job on the railways.

I'm not knocking other rail related jobs - go for one if you think you would enjoy it. There are however many other professions that provide valuable skills and experience that would support your application process and might even give you a better opportunity of passing some of the assessments.

I personally didn't fancy any other job on the railway. You are still young so there's no harm in trying a variety of jobs but don't choose the railways exclusively because you want to get a driver position. You could potentially spend wasted years without achieving your ultimate goal and you could miss out on other things you might be suited to that could provide equally valid experience towards your ultimate dream later on.

TOC's do take on young trainees but a level of maturity that often comes with a few years in a job that stretches your abilities (and perhaps a training course or two) is no bad thing.

Seconded. Was certainly my experience.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

E&W Lucas - I'm an office worker -.- So I don't get any of the experiences needed for Driving. No experience of shift work either, which when looking at some rail jobs they ask for. I work 9 to 5 every day, and some ****ing student does 4 hours on a Saturday and they're the one more suited becuase of "shift work"?!. But I do volunteer on a steam railway, so I have *some* railway experience. Don't know if it counts for anything on the 'big' railway mind...

DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE "RAILWAY EXPERIENCE" IN AN INTERVIEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will get laughed out. You will be able to draw on some experiences that you have had, to your benefit. Whne you start on the "Big Railway", if you've developed some Railway Sense, it will soon show through. I had upwards of a decade firing, when I went mainline. Two things from the inspectors when I started - a couple of rules questions, that I wouldn't have known, just to see if I recognised the limits of what I had been doing, and a grilling from the old steam hands (there still were plenty then), just to see if I did actually know what I was talking about.

 

[Silv1983]

Good call, but you do need to have a personal character that fits the role. Your heart also has to be in it. Why just local police force though? My BTP experiences were perfect for my Guard's interview.

With BTP you'd also get to go to all sorts of interesting railway places, though try not to out yourself as a spotter if you are one!

BTP might be his local police force. I didn't say "local home office police force"

 

[emrysgwen]

Here is how my career within the railway has gone. At 18 I lost my job in a hotel as it was seasonal work. I applied with atw for a senior conductor role. I got to testing stage one. I passed but I had to sit an interview where it took them nearly 6 hours to decided if I was right. I was 18 and they had their concerns and rightly so. Would I call in sick on a saturday morning after a night out, would I be responsible enough for the role. Turns out I had a lot of questions to answer and minds and opinions to change.

Anyhow to cut a long story short I passed everything and the only work I had done was managing a team of 12 on a horse riding school and bar and hotel work. I was the youngest senior conductor that atw had ever employed, and due to my success it opened the doors for other youngsters that had passion and the drive to do the role. After 9 years I decided that I had joined too young and there were things I wanted to do but couldnt due to the nature of my work so in january 2012 I left. I have been in retail since then however next week I start my driver training. Apparently I said one thing in my managers interview that struck a chord and made them chose me (had already passed all the tests).

It goes to show it is all about your willingness, maturity and life experiences, its about how motivated you are and your life outside work. You dont need to join as a shunter to become a driver, I know cleaners that went from cleaning the station to driving I know guards that were offered driving roles but they couldnt complete the training, so its not about being in a "lesser" position to get to the "higher" position. Getting your foot in the door is the first part, many companies only advertise driver roles internally.

 

[TDK]

I'm 21 and passed out 3 months ago as a Depot Driver ^_^

I don't want to start this off again but a depot driver is completely different to a mainline job

 

[Dave1987]

I don't want to start this off again but a depot driver is completely different to a mainline job

I believe badassinicorn is a DD for GA, all Depot Driver get mainline trained eventually on GA!

 

[Beveridges]

If your a DD you're still a Driver, afterall, you're still driving trains.

DD is a different job to mainline but its an alternative option if the (apparantly) much more monotonous nature of mainline driving puts you off too much, yet you still want to drive trains.

Anyway, thats some achievement getting an MDD role at 21. I know none who have done it at that age. Its such a hard role to get into due to the fact that there are so few vacancies.

 

[TDK]

If your a DD you're still a Driver, afterall, you're still driving trains.

DD is a different job to mainline but its an alternative option if the (apparantly) much more monotonous nature of mainline driving puts you off too much, yet you still want to drive trains.

Anyway, thats some achievement getting an MDD role at 21. I know none who have done it at that age. Its such a hard role to get into due to the fact that there are so few vacancies.

Agreed bev and I think depot driving can be more taxing than mainline - However the training period is a lot less, the criteria required in interview is different where as a DD will get a job and won't on the mainline as the interview is different as you know. I think getting in as a DD to them become a mainline driver is OK if your company routinely promote drivers from DD to mainline, if they do not or it is rare that they do and you really want to be a mainline driver go for the mainline job and not DD

 

[Silv1983]

If your a DD you're still a Driver, afterall, you're still driving trains.

DD is a different job to mainline but its an alternative option if the (apparantly) much more monotonous nature of mainline driving puts you off too much, yet you still want to drive trains.

Anyway, thats some achievement getting an MDD role at 21. I know none who have done it at that age. Its such a hard role to get into due to the fact that there are so few vacancies.

There are so few vacancies because management are always first to deposit mainline drivers into the role who have had one too many safety of the line issues etc. Driving at 5mph over the same well lit pieces of track day in day out with no passengers is seen as less of a risk.

Im really happy for you that you think mainline is boring and depot is exhilirating but try not to mislead potential employees with massively subjective opinions!

 

[Beveridges]

There are so few vacancies because management are always first to deposit mainline drivers into the role who have had one too many safety of the line issues etc. Driving at 5mph over the same well lit pieces of track day in day out with no passengers is seen as less of a risk.

To a small extent. If you mess up on the mainline you'd be lucky to get an MDD role though nowadays. It's far from a guaranteed safety net now. Those who got in were damn lucky. Normally if your proven to be a risk you won't get in.

Many end up on conducting, on the platforms or in an office based job. They want a high standard now, they won't just take on any deposited driver from elsewhere. MDD is extremely high risk work, even by mainline standards, depot work is seen as very "high risk", you got more chance of having a SOL incident on the depot than mainline.

The main reason Depot Driving has fewer vacancies is simply because much less of them exist.

Furthermore, not many of them leave.

As a DD you are part of a small team, rather than one of hundreds.

You talk about me giving massively subjective opinions, but thats exactly what you have done in the same post.

 

[Silv1983]

To a small extent. If you mess up on the mainline you'd be lucky to get an MDD role though nowadays. It's far from a guaranteed safety net now.

Many end up on conducting, on the platforms or in an office based job. They want a high standard now, they won't just take on any deposited driver from elsewhere. MDD is extremely high risk work, even by mainline standards, depot work is seen as very "high risk".

The main reason Depot Driving has fewer vacancies is simply because much less of them exist.

Furthermore, not many of them leave.

As a DD you are part of a small team, rather than one of hundreds.

You talk about me giving massively subjective opinions, but thats exactly what you do.

Well I can only speak for a lot of the MDD guys at NH. One or two have gone conducting, but I would say most the team are ex-mainline. Nice of Northern to keep them in a job, perhaps other companies would just get shot full stop.

When it comes to Depot vs Mainline... everyone knows you love your job with a passion - and see it through rose tinted coke bottle sized specs: but it is almost cringeworthy when you try and disuade potential drivers with tales of "monotony on the mainline" - whereas TMD driving is exciting... because one day you might drive a unit 37 metres onto carriage siding 3... but the next it might be 35 metres on carriage siding 2.

My opinions aren't subjective.. because I have driven on a depot dozens of times during training and whilst being assessed (full preps, shunting, the lot - and I can say the same environment at low speed day in day out doesn't compare to driving through Standedge tunnel at 75mph; whizzing down the rollercoaster style bends between Entwhistle and Blackburn; taking in the nice countryside on the way to Southport or Chester with a sunny sky and cool breeze on my neck; navigating into Liverpool Lime street with its dark archaic signals and decline: or working into Piccadilly on a really busy period with heavy traffic all around.

Im not slating your job. MDDs do an important role and it's a well paid and an engaging job. But it wouldn't hurt to admit to yourself and wanna-be drivers that there is better.

 

[455driver]

but it is almost cringe-worthy when you try and dissuade potential drivers with tales of "monotony on the mainline"

I agree, yesterday I did 108 station stops, today I am only doing 95, much different!

Glamorous it isnt!

One thing I do enjoy is the sun rising and all the different colours we see as the year passes by, from the white (frosts) of winter, various colours of the blossom in spring, the various greens in summer (and what that green will mean in November ), to the browns in Autumn.
Same locations very different scenery!

 

[Beveridges]

When it comes to Depot vs Mainline... everyone knows you love your job with a passion - and see it through rose tinted coke bottle sized specs: but it is almost cringeworthy when you try and disuade potential drivers with tales of "monotony on the mainline" - whereas TMD driving is exciting... because one day you might drive a unit 37 metres onto carriage siding 3... but the next it might be 35 metres on carriage siding 2.

My opinions aren't subjective.. because I have driven on a depot dozens of times during training and whilst being assessed (full preps, shunting, the lot - and I can say the same environment at low speed day in day out doesn't compare to driving...

You can't compare your training with Driver Trainer to a full MDD role. I had the same training during the first 6 weeks of my course and there is NO COMPARISON between that and MDD driving. It's not even scratching the surface.