Drivers pay increases

[SPADTrap]

We have several "brainy" types including one who studied law, a former pilot and so on and they are extremely bright in their own fields. However when it comes to the techy stuff on a train, they seem to be at a loss.

Where as I who only have ****y CSEs and no high level qualifications can work on a train, know its systems top to bottom and have no issues, but that's because I have double digit years of experience on me.

As I see it most newbies don't have any interest in the job whatsoever, they're only in it for the money & pension.

And those 'brainy' types will be the same when they have the experience, you sure seem to like telling us all how you're super driver eh! all it says to me is you're old!

You must pity all these 'boil in the bag' new era drivers who by virtue of the fact that they didn't exist during BR won't know a trains systems and will have issues!

 

[red2005]

We have several "brainy" types including one who studied law, a former pilot and so on and they are extremely bright in their own fields. However when it comes to the techy stuff on a train, they seem to be at a loss.

Where as I who only have ****y CSEs and no high level qualifications can work on a train, know its systems top to bottom and have no issues, but that's because I have double digit years of experience on me.

As I see it most newbies don't have any interest in the job whatsoever, they're only in it for the money & pension.

i agreed with most of that until the very last paragraph! gotta be a bit fair here mate!

i honestly believe that it is way to much of a sweeping generalisation to say most newbies are in it just for the money or pension!.......technically that's all that most of us are in it for!! i would say it is a very small minority that get up at 3am and go to work on the railway for the love of the job!

the fact that some do is just a bonus for them.

we go there to put food on the table and try and have a half decent lifestyle outside of the workplace!..........incidentally most chat that i hear in mess rooms regarding money comes from the older hands or more experienced staff that are wondering when the next pay deal is! and they are certainly not the most complimentary when i hear them talking about the industry eitherand would retire tomorrow if not for one thing...........THE MONEY!........just something to think about

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Now't super about me, I just enjoy technology and when something interests me then I like to know more about it and the technical side interests me a lot.

 

[SPADTrap]

Now't super about me, I just enjoy technology and when something interests me then I like to know more about it and the technical side interests me a lot.

Guess what..you're not alone. Your company must recruit the wrong people if your views aren't 'jaded' towards those who haven't been on the footplate as long as you.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

i agreed with most of that until the very last paragraph! gotta be a bit fair here mate!

i honestly believe that it is way to much of a sweeping generalisation to say most newbies are in it just for the money or pension!.......technically that's all that most of us are in it for!! i would say it is a very small minority that get up at 3am and go to work on the railway for the love of the job!

the fact that some do is just a bonus for them.

we go there to put food on the table and try and have a half decent lifestyle outside of the workplace!..........incidentally most chat that i hear in mess rooms regarding money comes from the older hands or more experienced staff that are wondering when the next pay deal is! and they are certainly not the most complimentary when i hear them talking about the industry eitherand would retire tomorrow if not for one thing...........THE MONEY!........just something to think about

Most of the newbies I have come across, seem to have very little interest about the job and just seem to be obsessed about the money & time off, nothing more.

 

[red2005]

and that very same statement can be aimed at more experienced employees lol!! remember it was quite a long time ago when 'the money was crap but you loved coming to work'.....a lot of those types aren't around anymore......so there's a lot of experienced employees with that very same attitude you are referring too!

i have been there for seven years now so not quite a newbie but i will openly admit that the financial and lifestyle benefits that i can provide for myself and my family are my main reasons for going to work and feel no shame for that!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Under BR it was always fun, always different and enjoyable, now it's just a bind. If I came up on the lottery I'd be off like a shot!

 

[red2005]

Under BR it was always fun, always different and enjoyable, now it's just a bind. If I came up on the lottery I'd be off like a shoth!

That just tells me that maybe your interest in the job etc is no stronger than that of the newbies that are 'in it for the money and pension' though!?? And if you hate the job that much but are still there......are u not still there for the money and the pension?....just wondering?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I'm only there because with my level of education I wouldn't be able to get a job with the same money or get the travel facilities that it provides, it's now probably a mix of £ & the latter that keeps me in the job.

 

[dk1]

I'm only there because with my level of education I wouldn't be able to get a job with the same money or get the travel facilities that it provides, it's now probably a mix of £ & the latter that keeps me in the job.

Same here. Too much to lose. Get some good days but mostly I grin, bear it & think of the money.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I think if it came down to enthusiasm then there wouldn't be many trains running around.

Especially when you see some of our turns, they are 9hrs 25 - 9hrs 30 long, with minimum break start at 0601 and do nearly 130 stops in that time over the same boring suburban routes. No wonder blokes screw up occasionally it's just so mind-blowingly boring, you switch off & go to autopilot. Then oops!

Some people don't mind, I detest doing what is intrinsically London depots work, whilst London depots spend most of the day out in the sticks. The money can't compensate for this I'm afraid.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Under BR it was always fun, always different and enjoyable, now it's just a bind. If I came up on the lottery I'd be off like a shot!

How very true.Im still interested in the job though and some of us are more enthusiastic than the new guys,not that I have anything against the new guys as most of them are diamonds anyway.

 

[carriageline]

I'm sorry, but this is something that really winds me up (not directly aimed at DK/HD) but some people seriously do not know how well off they are. In the signalling grade, people throw their dummies out the pram for the slightest thing, moan about anything and everything, and just seem so unhappy and fed up.

I then challenge (thankfully the likes of DK realise this) these people to leave, and find a job where:

1) you get the wage we do
2) you do the amount of work (on a daily basis) that we do
3) a job where when you leave work, work stays at work

They are the biggest three things for me. As someone who has come from the real world to inside the last few years, it is difficult out there. Yes we deserve every penny we get, (in some cases more!) but we are on to a good thing.

And for the 'boil in the bags are only in it for the money and pension' is so wrong it's untrue. Personally, I am putting into the pension but it won't be worth a fiddle when I retire so not to fussed about it. I only do the bare minimum with regards to rest days to help people off as I enjoy my time off. I can say I love my job. Then it comes back to the old schools that moan for England, moan when they don't get rest days, constantly getting their 13th day off.

 

[Llanigraham]

Under BR it was always fun, always different and enjoyable, now it's just a bind. If I came up on the lottery I'd be off like a shot!

I can think of several signalmen who would strongly disagree with that comment!

EDIT.
Well said Carriageline!

 

[red2005]

I'm only there because with my level of education I wouldn't be able to get a job with the same money or get the travel facilities that it provides, it's now probably a mix of £ & the latter that keeps me in the job.

well then if that is the case you couldn't blame a newbie with the same level of education as yourself applying and reaping the benefits then could you!?

and given how you've admitted that your only interest is the money and you'd be off like a shot given the opportunity it's a safe bet to say that most newbies probably have more interest and enthusiasm for the job than you do yourself lol!.......I'd much rather someone at work doing it safely and to the best of their ability with no railway interest than a spotter for example taking risks because they think they know the lot about the industry!

people need to remember that the uk isn't a cheap place to live anymore and there isn't a great deal of high earning potential without tonnes of overtime for Mr/Mrs average who don't have vast amounts of qualifications! so when a position like this comes up who can blame people for seeing the pound signs!??

not a criticism at all mate as i never question anyone's motives for working as I'd much rather someone tell me they go to work for the money and pension than hear the boasting that benefit scroungers seem to do nowadays!

 

[notadriver]

I still think driver positions should only be open to those within the industry and applicants must do another role on the railway as they must do on the tube. Just my opinion.

 

[red2005]

I still think driver positions should only be open to those within the industry and applicants must do another role on the railway as they must do on the tube. Just my opinion.

kinda but i think that depends on why? fairness?......yes possibly....maybe you should have to cut your teeth in another role first!

capability?........na i think there have been some really good drivers that have come off the street!

maybe a requirement that you MUST have previous safety critical experience??

 

[notadriver]

kinda but i think that depends on why? fairness?......yes possibly....maybe you should have to cut your teeth in another role first!

capability?........na i think there have been some really good drivers that have come off the street!

maybe a requirement that you MUST have previous safety critical experience??

My personal opinion is that the driver role is changing into a customer orientated one (well thats what they say to prospective applicants anyway). So again just my opinion, time spent on the railway in a customer service role would get new drivers used to railway working practices and dealing with other railway staff and the public before advancing to driver.

 

[red2005]

My personal opinion is that the driver role is changing into a customer orientated one (well thats what they say to prospective applicants anyway). So again just my opinion, time spent on the railway in a customer service role would get new drivers used to railway working practices and dealing with other railway staff and the public before advancing to driver.

i wouldn't say it's CHANGING to that! there is a lot more focus on that but that will always take a back seat to safety mate!.......internally my toc seems to look towards staff that have come from a safety critical grade rather than just customer facing, obviously every toc is different!

i do agree with you though it is good to see more internals being given a shot at the job as they were overlooked for people off the street for a long time!

 

[321446]

I think the idea has got merits, after all it worked well for hundreds of years! However, these days a problem would be that the TOC would have to train two people for every driver, the driver on their course & someone off the street to replace them in their old role. And we all know how much the Railway loves spending money. My TOC the cost of a place on a Driver course has to be prised out of the cold dead fingers of Management as it is!!!!

 

[Tomnick]

I'm sorry, but this is something that really winds me up (not directly aimed at DK/HD) but some people seriously do not know how well off they are. In the signalling grade, people throw their dummies out the pram for the slightest thing, moan about anything and everything, and just seem so unhappy and fed up.

I then challenge (thankfully the likes of DK realise this) these people to leave, and find a job where:

1) you get the wage we do
2) you do the amount of work (on a daily basis) that we do
3) a job where when you leave work, work stays at work

They are the biggest three things for me. As someone who has come from the real world to inside the last few years, it is difficult out there. Yes we deserve every penny we get, (in some cases more!) but we are on to a good thing.

And for the 'boil in the bags are only in it for the money and pension' is so wrong it's untrue. Personally, I am putting into the pension but it won't be worth a fiddle when I retire so not to fussed about it. I only do the bare minimum with regards to rest days to help people off as I enjoy my time off. I can say I love my job. Then it comes back to the old schools that moan for England, moan when they don't get rest days, constantly getting their 13th day off.

Agreed wholeheartedly - although I did at least feel individually valued by both my immediate management and higher up the tree in my previous job. I very much enjoy my job at the moment, and feel that generally I'm supported and appreciated by the management locally. It would be nice in return, though, for my pay to at least stand still in real terms - and I'd certainly prefer that to the offer of a £20 railcard that's neither use nor ornament .

 

[dk1]

I was a signaller too many moons ago & apart from the loneliness as I was so young, I really did enjoy it & still miss it too be honest. If I ever decide to do volintary work on a preserved line id choose that proffesion (if they'd have me).

 

[TDK]

As I see it most newbies don't have any interest in the job whatsoever, they're only in it for the money & pension.

I feel that is a biased comment, I think the word "most" is out of context and it should be "some" however unfortunately there are many individuals coming into the driving grade who should never have got there in the first place and this is now reflecting in the bias towards new driver's having incidents well above the amount that were having incidents 10 years ago, this is down to the practice material and also the info online where many new recruits are blagging their way in. I am in it for the money and only that reason, if the money was less I would certainly be doing something else, I am not a newbie and was in it for the money right from the start. Anyone who gets up at 02.30am in the rain, goes to work, gets abuse from passengers, sits on their own and has sacrificed their social life and says they are in it for the love of the job surely need therapy!

 

[fowler9]

kinda but i think that depends on why? fairness?......yes possibly....maybe you should have to cut your teeth in another role first!

capability?........na i think there have been some really good drivers that have come off the street!

maybe a requirement that you MUST have previous safety critical experience??

Which safety critical jobs should be able to recruit staff with no safety critical experience?

 

[TDK]

Which safety critical jobs should be able to recruit staff with no safety critical experience?

All of them as the training covers safety critical work.

 

[fowler9]

All of them as the training covers safety critical work.

That was my thinking. So why insist on applicants having safety critical experience, not that it was you saying that.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I feel that is a biased comment, I think the word "most" is out of context and it should be "some" however unfortunately there are many individuals coming into the driving grade who should never have got there in the first place and this is now reflecting in the bias towards new driver's having incidents well above the amount that were having incidents 10 years ago, this is down to the practice material and also the info online where many new recruits are blagging their way in. I am in it for the money and only that reason, if the money was less I would certainly be doing something else, I am not a newbie and was in it for the money right from the start. Anyone who gets up at 02.30am in the rain, goes to work, gets abuse from passengers, sits on their own and has sacrificed their social life and says they are in it for the love of the job surely need therapy!

I must need therapy then. I worked for this job as it has always been my ambition to be a train driver, the money is an added bonus as far as I'm concerned. But hey, I understand it's not the done thing to actually admit to enjoying your job...

 

[red2005]

That was my thinking. So why insist on applicants having safety critical experience, not that it was you saying that.

I'm not saying that SHOULD be the case! i am saying it may be another option to totally eradicating external applicants altogether! (for the driving grade) (not that that's gonna happen)

but looking at it from a toc's perspective you could see why they'd ask for experience because no matter how good their training is it doesn't mean that the candidate isn't someone that takes risks etc and given HOW safety orientated the railway is , having done nothing safety related then starting on the railway where a risk assessment is required to blow your nose it could be a shock to the system that not everyone takes too!.
previous experience of rules and regulations would be helpful there and is actually one of the things they highlight when they advertise anyway!

HOWEVER!

i am a firm believer in the fact that no one will ever get experience unless someone gives them that initial opportunity! and i had never been around a train until the toc that trained me gave me that opportunity!...we all have to start somewhere!

 

[Minilad]

I feel that is a biased comment, I think the word "most" is out of context and it should be "some" however unfortunately there are many individuals coming into the driving grade who should never have got there in the first place and this is now reflecting in the bias towards new driver's having incidents well above the amount that were having incidents 10 years ago, this is down to the practice material and also the info online where many new recruits are blagging their way in. I am in it for the money and only that reason, if the money was less I would certainly be doing something else, I am not a newbie and was in it for the money right from the start. Anyone who gets up at 02.30am in the rain, goes to work, gets abuse from passengers, sits on their own and has sacrificed their social life and says they are in it for the love of the job surely need therapy!

I do it for the love of the job. What sort of therapy do you suggest I have. There is nothing wrong with enjoying your work. In fact I think having a job you enjoy is one of the best things you can possibly have bearing in mind the amount of time you are there.

 

[fowler9]

I'm not saying that SHOULD be the case! i am saying it may be another option to totally eradicating external applicants altogether! (for the driving grade) (not that that's gonna happen)

but looking at it from a toc's perspective you could see why they'd ask for experience because no matter how good their training is it doesn't mean that the candidate isn't someone that takes risks etc and given HOW safety orientated the railway is , having done nothing safety related then starting on the railway where a risk assessment is required to blow your nose it could be a shock to the system that not everyone takes too!.
previous experience of rules and regulations would be helpful there and is actually one of the things they highlight when they advertise anyway!

HOWEVER!

i am a firm believer in the fact that no one will ever get experience unless someone gives them that initial opportunity! and i had never been around a train until the toc that trained me gave me that opportunity!...we all have to start somewhere!

Amen to that. Last time I applied to be a driver I don't think I focused on or even thought about the safety critical roles I perform in my current job which aren't instantly obvious to someone when they hear you work in housing. I'll be applying to Northern in the Liverpool area again next time jobs come up, indeed my role has expanded now and covers more areas of construction and maintenance.