Dual citizenship because of Brexit

TrafficEng

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
417
Location
North of London
Except it won't be extra desks for British passport holders (they aren't that important that they need their own ones, are they?), It will be EU/EEA desks and then everyone else.
You know this as fact? How?

Do you have a list of all EU airports detailing what the authorities plan to do at each one?

Is it possible that at airports where large numbers of UK passengers travel there may be some EU/EEA/UK lanes?

So a British passport holder will be in the same queue as someone from Kenya or India and wait as their visa is checked and passport scrutinised, while the EU/EEA passport holders sail through hassle free. But that is what the British voted for...
Perhaps I've been unlucky, but I've never "sailed through" passport control with an EU passport in the EU/(EEA) lane. I've always been asked to show my passport just like the people in front and behind. The check is usually quicker than for non-EU, but in part because non-EU passport holders may need a visa.

Do you know which EU countries will insist on manually checking all UK passport holders visa documents on arrival?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Doppelganger

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2011
Messages
141
You know this as fact? How?

Do you have a list of all EU airports detailing what the authorities plan to do at each one?

Is it possible that at airports where large numbers of UK passengers travel there may be some EU/EEA/UK lanes?



Perhaps I've been unlucky, but I've never "sailed through" passport control with an EU passport in the EU/(EEA) lane. I've always been asked to show my passport just like the people in front and behind. The check is usually quicker than for non-EU, but in part because non-EU passport holders may need a visa.

Do you know which EU countries will insist on manually checking all UK passport holders visa documents on arrival?
I have used my eyes and I see the current arrangements across many, many EU airports.

Have you heard any EU country announce they will have a UK only passport lane, because I haven't and if you have, please post a link so we can all see.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
3,602
Have you heard any EU country announce they will have a UK only passport lane, because I haven't and if you have, please post a link so we can all see
Why would they announce it yet? It would annoy the EU and be too far ahead of implementation date to be good PR, especially as they don’t even know if it will be needed/allowed yet.
 

TrafficEng

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
417
Location
North of London
I have used my eyes and I see the current arrangements across many, many EU airports.
What is extant is not evidence of what might happen. You cannot prove UK passport holders will be forced to queue only on the basis of what happened in the past.

Have you heard any EU country announce they will have a UK only passport lane, because I haven't and if you have, please post a link so we can all see.
I have not, although I didn't claim there would be "UK only passport lanes" either.

But I would not expect countries or even airports to make such public announcements on the internet at this stage. I'd expect them to just change the signs above desks and simply put up some notices advising passengers which lanes they need to use.

Airports like to move people through as quickly as possible. If adjustments need to be made then they will be made.
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
417
Except it won't be extra desks for British passport holders (they aren't that important that they need their own ones, are they?), It will be EU/EEA desks and then everyone else.
It depends. At airports serving some Mediterranean resorts in the summer season the incoming traffic from the UK often exceeds that of any other single country of origin by a margin. In that respect those visitors are important to the economy. There won't be many visitors from Kenya or India to deal with and those airports may well decide to either provide a separate UK channel or at least allow UK passport holders to use the non-Schengen EU channel (if they have one, which many of the smaller ones don't). It's not a matter of "they need us more than we need them". It's simply a case of sound business sense because business and commerce will continue after Brexit despite the best efforts of politicians to make it awkward. It's what businesses do.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,682
Location
0035
Except it won't be extra desks for British passport holders (they aren't that important that they need their own ones, are they?),
Yes, that is what I am saying, desks that British passport holders can use, not desks only for British passport holders!


It will be EU/EEA desks and then everyone else.

So a British passport holder will be in the same queue as someone from Kenya or India and wait as their visa is checked and passport scrutinised, while the EU/EEA passport holders sail through hassle free. But that is what the British voted for...
Except, that many airports will probably just change their counters to All Passports upon arrival of a British flight, because the number of customers with passports from EU/Efta countries will be so small and otherwise the queues will be so long.
 

duncanp

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
845
It may be that in the future there are UK/EU/EEA lanes at airports, in both the EU and the UK.

Simply because tourism from the EU is important to the UK economy, and tourism from the UK is important to many EU countries.

There is no reason why this cannot happen as part of the long term arrangements that take effect after the transition period ends. Especially as all passports are biometric and can easily be checked at the e-gates.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,682
Location
0035
It may be that in the future there are UK/EU/EEA lanes at airports, in both the EU and the UK.

Simply because tourism from the EU is important to the UK economy, and tourism from the UK is important to many EU countries.
Most UK airports have electronic passport gates for UK/EU/Efta country citizens rather than a separate channel, and people from Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and the United States can also use them. Sadly this isn’t broadly reciprocated though by these countries in allowing British passport holders to use speedy access.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
3,770
It may be that in the future there are UK/EU/EEA lanes at airports, in both the EU and the UK.

Simply because tourism from the EU is important to the UK economy, and tourism from the UK is important to many EU countries.

There is no reason why this cannot happen as part of the long term arrangements that take effect after the transition period ends. Especially as all passports are biometric and can easily be checked at the e-gates.
Surely it is not beyond the ability of airports to have flexible lane arrangements to suit arrival patterns.

What do they do if early mornings are full of US arrivals, afternoons from EU and evening from the Indian sub continent?
 

TrafficEng

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
417
Location
North of London
Surely it is not beyond the ability of airports to have flexible lane arrangements to suit arrival patterns.

What do they do if early mornings are full of US arrivals, afternoons from EU and evening from the Indian sub continent?
^^This.

The more time passengers queue to get their passports checked, the less time they have to spend money in the post-checkpoint shops and cafes.

Airports are not daft. They will make arrangements that keep people moving, rather than making UK passport holders queue up as punishment for their countryfolk voting leave.

And if the EU did introduce rules to ban airports from allowing UK passport holders into EU/EEA(/UK) lanes then it probably confirms in the minds of some voters that their 2016 choice was the right one.
 

transmanche

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
6,008
Surely it is not beyond the ability of airports to have flexible lane arrangements to suit arrival patterns.

What do they do if early mornings are full of US arrivals, afternoons from EU and evening from the Indian sub continent?
Clearly airport operators are not stupid. Many of them can and do change the number of lanes allocated to specific groups. Such as here at Bucharest where they have variable illuminated signs.

But the question isn't really about the number of lanes, it's which lane UK-passport holders will be able to use post-Brexit.


20180412-144358-otopeni-henri-coanda-airport-passport-control-2018

Rakoon [CC0]
Image shows three passport control lanes with illumintes signs above each of them. One shows 'EU/EEA/CH Passports' and the other two signs show 'All Passports'
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Glasgow
It depends. At airports serving some Mediterranean resorts in the summer season the incoming traffic from the UK often exceeds that of any other single country of origin by a margin.
Indeed they can resource it how they feel best but the point not mentioned here is that every country in the Schengen Zone has to apply the same checks and rules so Portugal/Spain/Greece cannot create an "express" entry waiver system for UK citizens to benefit their tourism - they can open up lanes etc etc but they can't have their own rules. This is because e.g. Spain is carrying out the border check on behalf of every country in the zone.

At the moment e.g US Passport holders entering Schengen need to have several checks carried out at the border. They are only allowed to stay 90 days in 180 days and must be a legitimate visitor for tourism or business - their passport gets stamped too. If they arrive in the EU in Amsterdam connecting to Spain, the Dutch border police need to ascertain this. I think they can use the e-gates in Amsterdam, this presumably checks for the info electronically and then I've seen them get referred to a border officer for questions & a stamp.

Point being - it depends on UK/EU future relations but if we are completely outside the bloc then it's daft to think that it won't cause border delays because the immigration rules will need to be enforced. This can be done electronically but without freedom of movement UK ctizens travelling to the EU have no automatic right to enter. Entering the EU will be more like entering the US - let's say an immigration process rather than a passport check. If the UK doesn't allow unlimited entry to EU citizens then of course no one should expect the same in Schengen and other EU countries for UK citzens.

Personally I have family residing in Spain and Germany so I'd see the above scenario as very much damaging to my own personal freedoms and I hope a comprehensive agreement is reached on this but expect Johnson et al to have to change their stance on freedom of movement for this to be achieveable.
 
Last edited:

TrafficEng

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
417
Location
North of London
Indeed they can resource it how they feel best but the point not mentioned here is that every country in the Schengen Zone has to apply the same checks and rules so Portugal/Spain/Greece cannot create an "express" entry waiver system for UK citizens to benefit their tourism - they can open up lanes etc etc but they can't have their own rules. This is because e.g. Spain is carrying out the border check on behalf of every country in the zone.

<Snip>

Point being - it depends on UK/EU future relations but if we are completely outside the bloc then it's daft to think that it won't cause border delays because the immigration rules will need to be enforced. This can be done electronically but without freedom of movement UK ctizens travelling to the EU have no automatic right to enter. Entering the EU will be more like entering the US - let's say an immigration process rather than a passport check. If the UK doesn't allow unlimited entry to EU citizens then of course no one should expect the same in Schengen and other EU countries for UK citzens.

Personally I have family residing in Spain and Germany so I'd see the above scenario as very much damaging to my own personal freedoms and I hope a comprehensive agreement is reached on this but expect Johnson et al to have to change their stance on freedom of movement for this to be achieveable.
It has already been announced that (subject to reciprocity) the EU will allow UK citizens to travel to the EU without a visa (from 2021) provided they apply for a waiver under the ETIAS scheme.

Carriers will be obliged to return any travellers who arrive without prior ETIAS clearance, so we can be sure carriers will require ETIAS details at (or prior to) check in, just as they already require passport or ID card details. No visa and no ETIAS means you won't even get on the plane.

Passenger lists will be forwarded to the destination airport (just as they are already) so the authorities will have prior notification and can check in advance to confirm all passengers have valid entry documents. On arrival passengers pass through border control who would check passports to confirm the passenger is the passport holder (just as they do now).

If ETIAS is implemented there is no reason why border control checks will take any longer than they do currently.

The EU only want reciprocity in terms of visa-free entry for EU citizens. They are not asking for Freedom of Movement.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
21,465
Location
Scotland
If ETIAS is implemented there is no reason why border control checks will take any longer than they do currently.
But they will. We are going to be a third-party country and so will have the additional checks imposed that go with third-country status. Even if it's just the extra time taken to apply a stamp in the passport, it adds up.

Or are my eyes fooling me that the UK/EU citizens line at Edinburgh Airport is shorter every time I come back to the UK?
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Glasgow
If ETIAS is implemented there is no reason why border control checks will take any longer than they do currently.

The EU only want reciprocity in terms of visa-free entry for EU citizens. They are not asking for Freedom of Movement.
According to www.gov.uk/visit-europe-brexit this agreement already is the 90 days in 180 days rule like EU offers to e.g. Canadians, so limited visa free travel promised for tourists. In theory perhaps yes this wouldn't delay tourists however this is very similar to the ESTA scheme for UK passport holders visiting the US, unsure if anyone else has personal experience but last year it took me 70 minutes at Miami to clear customs and 2 hours at Los Angeles, both times arriving from the UK. Each time a machine scanned my passport, I had to answer questions about my visit and then had to wait to see a border officer to verify and get my stamp.
 
Last edited:

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Glasgow
But they will. We are going to be a third-party country and so will have the additional checks imposed that go with third-country status. Even if it's just the extra time taken to apply a stamp in the passport, it adds up.

Or are my eyes fooling me that the UK/EU citizens line at Edinburgh Airport is shorter every time I come back to the UK?
Yes, I suspect there will be if the UK is treated as a complete third country which is what's on the table if there's no agreement. Imagine a flight arriving in Spain from the UK, the border police there now would have to make an effort to check that every UK visitor is legitimate and is only spending 90 days in 180 days in the country. If said UK citizens are also permanent residents (and there's a million Brits in Spain remember) or have a work permit they'd need to check their visa/document too. Families with kids can't generally use e-gates either so manual processing required for them.

Yes the process can be speeded up with pre-approvals etc but it cannot ever be as quick as a freedom of movement arrangement where UK citizens are automatically allowed in unless there is a public safety risk now there would be immigration considerations that hopefully the technology will make as efficient as possible.
 
Last edited:

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
3,770
But the question isn't really about the number of lanes, it's which lane UK-passport holders will be able to use post-Brexit.
I disagree. I couldn't care less which lane I pass through. I am concerned about the delay in passing through.

If an airport reallocates lanes and staff so there are no undue delays there is nothing more to say.
 

Doppelganger

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2011
Messages
141
I disagree. I couldn't care less which lane I pass through. I am concerned about the delay in passing through.

If an airport reallocates lanes and staff so there are no undue delays there is nothing more to say.
Your concerns will be duly noted by the appropriate authority and steps will be taken to remedy the situation in your favour I am sure. British passport holders should definitely be at the front of any queue.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,682
Location
0035
Except it won't be extra desks for British passport holders (they aren't that important that they need their own ones, are they?), It will be EU/EEA desks and then everyone else.
Funnily enough I’m at Barcelona airport right now and there’s a separate lane for UK passport holders only (alongside the present EU/Efta lane which we are also presently entitled to use given the current transition arrangements, and All Passport Holders sections).

There was also no queue, unlike at the other two sections, and the area of the airport is only for EasyJet non-schengen flights, at the present time the only flights at this section are to/from the UK.
 

SteveP29

Member
Joined
23 Apr 2011
Messages
847
Location
Chester le Street/ Edinburgh
Perhaps I've been unlucky, but I've never "sailed through" passport control with an EU passport in the EU/(EEA) lane. I've always been asked to show my passport just like the people in front and behind. The check is usually quicker than for non-EU, but in part because non-EU passport holders may need a visa.

Do you know which EU countries will insist on manually checking all UK passport holders visa documents on arrival?
My immigration checks have been:
Hand over passport
Immigration officer looks at photo
Looks at me
Hands passport back

I'd say that's more or less sailing through

rather than making UK passport holders queue up as punishment for their countryfolk voting leave
Its not punishment at all, its upholding the integrity of the security of the EU
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
9,333
My immigration checks have been:
Hand over passport
Immigration officer looks at photo
Looks at me
Hands passport back

I'd say that's more or less sailing through



Its not punishment at all, its upholding the integrity of the security of the EU
Yup that’s the same for me too when I pass though immigration.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
2,972
My wife, doing some research into her mother's family a few years ago, discovered that her mother's mother was born in Ireland and, on that basis and once proven, she could claim Irish citizenship; this despite never having set foot in the country. Up to now, she hasn't taken this up and, of course, dual nationality wouldn't be extended to me.
I applied for Irish citizenship in 2017, as my grandfather was born in Dublin. I got a passport soon afterwards. Unfortunately, I can't get it for my wife and kids.
 

Doppelganger

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2011
Messages
141
I applied for Irish citizenship in 2017, as my grandfather was born in Dublin. I got a passport soon afterwards. Unfortunately, I can't get it for my wife and kids.
I'm pretty sure your kids can get it, but they will need their births entered on the register of foreign births first.
 

Doppelganger

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2011
Messages
141
So we'll have to divorce and re-marry. Then I'll be at her mercy as to whether she chooses the latter option, which could be a moot point. :lol:
You can't just pass it on anyway, at least not Irish citizenship, unless of course she is living on the island of Ireland
 

Top