East Coast fares

[Kier]

For a public sector company they are outrageous. Going from Leeds to London is ridiculously overpriced.

The private sector operators have a duty to their shareholders to maximise returns, but profiteering by EC on the government's behalf is disgusting.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I just got my girlfriend and me from leeds to london for £34.40 return for both of us... so i hardly say that way bad!

 

[wintonian]

I just got my girlfriend and me from leeds to london for £34.40 return for both of us... so i hardly say that way bad!

I agree, have just bagged myself a £11 single from Newcastle to London.

Costs me a minimum of £19 to take a 1 hour trip to London, so I think EC is good value, the OP might like to try getting good value fares from XC and I wish them every luck in doing so.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[DaveNewcastle]

For a public sector company they are outrageous. Going from Leeds to London is ridiculously overpriced.

The private sector operators have a duty to their shareholders to maximise returns, but profiteering by EC on the government's behalf is disgusting.

I think we need to be quite clear here, that since Privatisation of the the UK Railways there have been 3 operators appointed to operate the LDHS East Coast services. Depending on who you speak to, the first 2 of these have either failed due to uncontrolled external factors or just perhaps some failure to manage their Contractural negotiations profitably. The upshot was that the second of those commercial share-issuing companies handed back their contract to their quango-like Contractee. (I speak as a shareholder in one of them). The consequence is that you, my friend, are as much a shareholder as I am. EC is now run by an ALMO of the UK Government (actually, even that is unclear, it is certainly not an ALMO of the Welsh, NI nor Scottish Governments, it is a creation of the UK Government's Department for Transport which has limited jurisdiction in Scotland where EC make a considerable profit through the fares allocation system known by its acronym ORCATS).

As for fares, I must agree with you, up to a point, and there are many other threads on here which already debate this issue. There are astonishingly cheap Advance offers with miniscule time-windows in which they can be bought, intensively restricted availability, and which bear no resemblance to their marketing of low cost fares

The walk up prices can easily be well over £150 contrasted with the signs on the sides of busses, billboards, local newspapers, websites etc promoting a mere 10% of that price.
What that Company never does is to correctly distinguish the 1000% or so penalty they will happily charge their pasengers who buy those headline-price tickets which EC widely promote and advertise - its those headline prices which lure passengers into a sense of understanding the actual value of their journey and its possible knock-on side effects. But then, once they are on board, those same passengers are shocked, dismayed and infuriated by the truth, which can be an addtional charge of 15 times the cost of the ticket bought from EC but which they are then told is suddenly 'invalid'.

EC do make some good offers.
EC do make good misrepresentation.
but somehow, they still don't make good profits.

Quoting myself from 2 months ago from this thread, which in turn was a quote from East Coast's Accounts:

The 09/10 Profit was £1,820,000
The 10/11 profit was £6,532,000
(both before tax)

Pension scheme reserves reduced these to:
09/10 Profit £1,322,000
10/11 Profit £1,224,000

Perhaps more crucially, The Balance Sheet showed a deficit in both years, getting worse in the second year:
09/10 Balance -£ 44,000 deficit
10/11 Balance -£1,094,000 deficit

(My personal view is that I feel as much sympathy for the on-board staff as I do for the passengers - they all have to deal with the same crap).

 

[tbtc]

For a public sector company they are outrageous. Going from Leeds to London is ridiculously overpriced.

The private sector operators have a duty to their shareholders to maximise returns, but profiteering by EC on the government's behalf is disgusting.

East Coast have a duty to give their shareholders (i.e. British Taxpayers) a decent settlement

 

[yorkie]

EC is effectively like an airline, and I treat it as such. I plan my journeys 3 months in advance and usually pay no more than £10 each way (York <> London).

I do wish that we had an equivalent of LM; the option to pay about £20 return for a walk-up fare (like people from Stoke/Liverpool can do) and have a 3.5 hour journey, would be a useful addition when you can't book far in advance.

 

[Kier]

EC is effectively like an airline, and I treat it as such. I plan my journeys 3 months in advance and usually pay no more than £10 each way (York <> London).

I do wish that we had an equivalent of LM; the option to pay about £20 return for a walk-up fare (like people from Stoke/Liverpool can do) and have a 3.5 hour journey, would be a useful addition when you can't book far in advance.

Unfortunately there are far fewer stops on the EC line and the smaller stops (Retford, Newark, Grantham) are all adequately served by existing EC and are not big enough to warrant a stopping slow service.

Everytime I go through Retford hardly anyone boards, sometimes I wonder whether it is worthwhile stopping there.

 

[wintonian]

EC is effectively like an airline, and I treat it as such. I plan my journeys 3 months in advance and usually pay no more than £10 each way (York <> London).

I do wish that we had an equivalent of LM; the option to pay about £20 return for a walk-up fare (like people from Stoke/Liverpool can do) and have a 3.5 hour journey, would be a useful addition when you can't book far in advance.

I wish doesn't matter when I plan their are no advance fares to London or virtually anywhere else in the SE.

Very expensive down here.

 

[DJ737]

Very expensive down here.

Keep going south

A walk up off peak single fare (not valid 1600-1800) from my local station Craigieburn to Seymour, a trip of 73km (45miles) is going up from $1.70 (£1.10) to $1.90 (£1.25) on the 1st jan, the locals are screaming blue murder at the fare increases, and saying they are going back to driving. :roll:

Cheers and Merry Christmas (30c tomorrow)
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[wintonian]

Keep going south

A walk up off peak single fare (not valid 1600-1800) from my local station Craigieburn to Seymour, a trip of 73km (45miles) is going up from $1.70 (£1.10) to $1.90 (£1.25) on the 1st jan, the locals are screaming blue murder at the fare increases, and saying they are going back to driving. :roll:

Cheers and Merry Christmas (30c tomorrow)
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

I pay about 10 times that with a railcard just for 60 miles

 

[Solent&Wessex]

For a public sector company they are outrageous. Going from Leeds to London is ridiculously overpriced.

The private sector operators have a duty to their shareholders to maximise returns, but profiteering by EC on the government's behalf is disgusting.

Actually, the Leeds route isn't that bad. Like any major route into London if you travel in the midweek morning peak then you will pay a lot, but the Leeds - London flow has some very good advance purchase fares available in many cases only days before travel. From York it is often cheaper to travel via Leeds to take advantage of the greater availability of cheap advance fares on the Leeds route.

If you think it is expensive, might I suggest you look at the West Coast route? Generally higher fares and far fewer cheap advance fares which sell out much sooner.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I've just come back from Newcastle on an £8.50 single.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Unfortunately there are far fewer stops on the EC line and the smaller stops (Retford, Newark, Grantham) are all adequately served by existing EC and are not big enough to warrant a stopping slow service.

Everytime I go through Retford hardly anyone boards, sometimes I wonder whether it is worthwhile stopping there.

It isnt, Retford should be given to Hull Trains and Grand Central and EC should leave it alone, with perhaps the exception of the 2 early am trains off Leeds that stop there.

On the fares subject, the super off peak returns are reasonable, as are the singles if bought on EC website before 1800 on day before travel. Peak fares are a rip on any intercity operator.

 

[calc7]

IIRC a LDS-PBO Off-peak return is valid all trains to depart after 0430 (or some other placeholder restriction to justify the presence of the anytime single).
Couldn't a lot of money be saved with a LDS-PBO SVR, PBO-Finsbury Park SOR and a Z12 season for peak-time travellers?

 

[Kier]

It isnt, Retford should be given to Hull Trains and Grand Central and EC should leave it alone, with perhaps the exception of the 2 early am trains off Leeds that stop there.

On the fares subject, the super off peak returns are reasonable, as are the singles if bought on EC website before 1800 on day before travel. Peak fares are a rip on any intercity operator.

Newark and Grantham have connections to Lincolnshire (Lincoln, Grimsby, Sleaford etc.) so make it worthwhile stopping there and the stations are always reasonably busy. Retford doesn't provide nearly as many connections.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Worksop and Lincoln are available from Retford.

 

[Kier]

Worksop and Lincoln are available from Retford.

True, but Newark is generally easier for Lincoln.

Can't imagine there is much demand for trains from Worksop to London or the North either.

 

[HST Power]

I think East Coast fares are very reasonable. They also offer a rewards scheme and the pounds to points ratio is actually quite good.

 

[calc7]

I think East Coast fares are very reasonable. They also offer a rewards scheme and the pounds to points ratio is actually quite good.

Their standard fares are good value for money, but their "First Class" service is insulting at best.

 

[dstrat]

£179 Anytime Return from Kings X to Donny is ridiculous, along with the restrictions that force you to use it if you want to go into London/out of at any reasonable time.

3.30pm to 7pm anytime only out of London? Ridiculous. Pricing people off the railways to cure congestion is absurd...yet is what we do. Its a public service...

 

[craigwilson]

3.30pm to 7pm anytime only out of London? Ridiculous. Pricing people off the railways to cure congestion is absurd...yet is what we do. Its a public service...

And then it never actually does cure congestion as the first off-peaks after that are always rammed. The 1900 Euston-Manchester being a fine example (and the reason that Virgin saw fit to introduce the 1857 extra service on Thursdays/Fridays).

 

[dstrat]

Yep, the 1903 from Kings Cross is full and standing..1833 not so much..

 

[John @ home]

£179 Anytime Return from Kings X to Donny is ridiculous, along with the restrictions that force you to use it if you want to go into London/out of at any reasonable time.

3.30pm to 7pm anytime only out of London?

That's incorrect. The £133 Off-Peak Return (SVR) London Terminals - Doncaster route Any Permitted has Validity Code 1V, for which the evening barred period from Kings X is 1559 - 1745 (inclusive), half the duration stated by dstrat.

But thanks for mentioning the £179 Anytime Return London Terminals - Doncaster route EC & Connections. I was not aware of this ticket.

 

[All Line Rover]

EC is effectively like an airline, and I treat it as such. I plan my journeys 3 months in advance and usually pay no more than £10 each way (York <> London).

I do wish that we had an equivalent of LM; the option to pay about £20 return for a walk-up fare (like people from Stoke/Liverpool can do) and have a 3.5 hour journey, would be a useful addition when you can't book far in advance.

Some of the East Coast Advance fares are very cheap in comparison to the walk-up fares. £11.50 for a Leeds-London AP single (available on the vast majority of daytime services), compared to £93.10 for a walk-up SSS. In comparison, Virgin charge £12 (from January) for a London-Manchester AP single (available on a fairly limited number of daytime services), compared to £73.20 for an SVS. (It is of note that Virgin have - once again - raised their Advance fares. :roll

There are advantages to both TOC's. The problem with East Coast is that if you are unable to buy Advance tickets, the walk-up fares are very expensive.

On the Liverpool-Crewe-Stoke-London route, most people choose to travel with Virgin instead of LM unless they are very, VERY strapped for cash! The walk-up Off-Peak Virgin fares are reasonable(ish). The 3.5h journey time on LM makes a day-trip very difficult, and it's a real feat to endure a 350 for that long!

 

[SWT_USER]

Not nescaserily strapped for cash, just after value for money...

 

[BrianTheLion]

=All Line Rover - The problem with East Coast is that if you are unable to buy Advance tickets, the walk-up fares are very expensive.

I Agree entirely.

I can also see why the OP has formed his opinion. But I believe sometimes the TOC in question might shoot themselves in the foot by not competing correctly.

Take Edinburgh to Newcastle for example. A standard walk on anytime single is £26.00 with CrossCountry. East Coast don't offer their version of this ticket and come under the "any permitted" remit which is £44.50.

I sometimes wonder how East Coast justify not having their own EC only fare because there is a difference of £18.50 (making travelling with them 58% more expensive) - I wonder how many times they lose out to savvy customers who know there is a cheaper alternative?

 

[yorkie]

I sometimes wonder how East Coast justify not having their own EC only fare because there is a difference of £18.50 (making travelling with them 58% more expensive) - I wonder how many times they lose out to savvy customers who know there is a cheaper alternative?

EC are not allowed to have a walk-on standard class EC Only fare for this flow, because it is EC who set the inter-available fare. The only way EC can prevent people ditching them for XC is to lower the inter-available price. But they won't do that, as they probably sell more tickets to people who have the wrong Advance ticket than people just deciding to buy on board on the spur of the moment.

 

[All Line Rover]

Not nescaserily strapped for cash, just after value for money...

Even though the fare may appear to be a "bargain," you have to consider: "Is it worth over 7 hours of my time just to save 50%?" (I am comparing the Off-Peak Return here, as the Super-Off-Peak Return isn't valid on trains arriving into London before 1pm!). For most people, the answer is no - particularly as it makes day trips very difficult.*

I would here point out that I myself am the "cheap-as-chips" type, and as soon as I get a 16-25 Railcard will probably travel with London Midland on a regular basis. But I don't think London Midland and Virgin Trains are directly comparable, as they cater to different markets.

*On the other hand, if you want to leave London during the evening "Peak," London Midland might not actually take much longer, as all tickets are valid on the [18:29] departure, whereas with Virgin you have to wait until at least the [19:00] departure, or a fair bit later if you want a seat!

 

[yorkie]

That's incorrect. The £133 Off-Peak Return (SVR) London Terminals - Doncaster route Any Permitted has Validity Code 1V, for which the evening barred period from Kings X is 1559 - 1745 (inclusive), half the duration stated by dstrat.

Indeed, and the return portion of a Doncaster - London SVR is valid at any time from London.

 

[All Line Rover]

If London Midland are successful in their attempts to speed up services between London and Rugby (and the Trent Valley), I will be interested to see if there will be a mass exodus of customers from Virgin to London Midland. Even if the service from Crewe/Stoke/Stafford are only sped up by 20 or 30 minutes, it will look a lot more appealing.

I also wonder if they will increase the prices at the same time!