Electrification - More Than 900 Route Miles

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LNW-GW Joint

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Doing the sums, Network Rail now has approval to wire over 900 miles of double track.
This is the split over the various NR Routes:

LNW 215 miles
Lancashire Triangle and TP as far as Diggle 106
Bletchley-Bedford/Bicester 35
Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington-Heyford 74
Walsall-Rugeley 15
Barnt Green-Bromsgrove 8 (includes fast lines east of Barnt Green)
LNE 186 miles
TP - Diggle-Copley Hill and Neville Hill-Selby/Colton Jn 56
Bedford-Derby-Sheffield 116
Kettering-Corby 6, Trent-Nottingham 8
GW 210 miles
Hayes-Wootton Bassett-Badminton-Patchway 93
Wootton Bassett-Bristol-Patchway 48
Thames Valley Branches (Windsor, Marlow, Henley) 15
Reading-Newbury 18
Didcot-Oxford-Heyford 24
Oxford-Bicester 12
Wales 205 miles
Patchway-Severn Tunnel-Cardiff-Swansea 77
Valleys 128 – 60 miles of which are single track
Wessex 48 miles
Reading-Basingstoke 13
Basingstoke-Southampton 35 (replaces 3rd rail DC)
Scotland 60 miles approx (EGIP)

The 60 miles of single track Valleys lines are balanced by about the same length of quadruple track on the main lines, mostly between Hayes and Swindon and Bristol-Severn Tunnel-Cardiff, plus some around Sheffield, Derby, Oxford, Leicester, Salford, east of Leeds etc.
There are of course complications at many places which will extend the mileage needed to be wired, for things like depots, loops and junctions.
The original WCML electrification (Euston-Birmingham-Stoke/Crewe-Manchester-Liverpool) was about 420 route miles (much of it quad track) and took 10 years.
The Glasgow extension was about 220 miles, and the ECML about 430 miles (Hitchin-Edinburgh-Carstairs and Doncaster-Leeds) and both took about 5 years.

The interesting thing now is how NR will manage this vast workload and deliver new stretches to the TOCs.
There will also be big technical issues with signalling, layout, tunnels and W12 clearance to resolve, to say nothing of the 3rd rail issues on the LSW route.
There are already two electrification teams at work on the ground (North West and GW), but it will surely need another couple of teams to deliver all this in parallel, with first class project management.
Time to watch with interest (and buy shares in Balfour Beatty and the other contractors!).
 
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Ploughman

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With this round of electrification, will there be a potential freight route under the wires from Southampton to the ECML in particular North of Doncaster?
Or are a few missing links required? Such as Sheffield - Doncaster?

Is there a possibility, also, of wiring Northallerton - Teeside as this would enable TPE a Liverpool - Middlesborough run
 

LNW-GW Joint

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With this round of electrification, will there be a potential freight route under the wires from Southampton to the ECML in particular North of Doncaster?
Or are a few missing links required? Such as Sheffield - Doncaster?

Is there a possibility, also, of wiring Northallerton - Teeside as this would enable TPE a Liverpool - Middlesborough run

Well you could go: Southampton-Oxford-Nuneaton-Warrington-Huddersfield-York.

Middlesbrough seems to have been pushed back to CP6.
However, it's still open to NR to propose doing more for the money (if they can).
Or maybe less (if the costs aren't right).
We shan't know for certain until NR publishes its detailed plan next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Apparently this one is all the way down to Bournemouth!

Not in the DfT documents. Might come out that way in the wash.
 

tbtc

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With this round of electrification, will there be a potential freight route under the wires from Southampton to the ECML in particular North of Doncaster?
Or are a few missing links required? Such as Sheffield - Doncaster?

As LNW-GW Joint says, you'd have to go via Warrington and Huddersfield.

Logically, Sheffield to Doncaster (and Moorthorpe) will be a CP6 thing, as each bit of the jigsaw helps the "bigger picture".

However I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to using freight as a justification for electrification - given that its nothing like as frequent as passenger services.
 

ainsworth74

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Such as Sheffield - Doncaster?

Is there a possibility, also, of wiring Northallerton - Teeside as this would enable TPE a Liverpool - Middlesborough run

With the route miles already committed I doubt it would be physically possible for NR to wire up much more (unless you really want to start throwing money at them). However, I'd be very surprised if routes like this weren't wired up in CP6 (along with others where the wires seem to be stopping in odd places like finishing off Selby to Hull).
 

Bald Rick

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I was pondering this morning how many new route miles would get electrified, and also what proportion of the national network will be done by end of CP5. Anyone care to do the maths ?
 

HSTEd

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With the route miles already committed I doubt it would be physically possible for NR to wire up much more (unless you really want to start throwing money at them). However, I'd be very surprised if routes like this weren't wired up in CP6 (along with others where the wires seem to be stopping in odd places like finishing off Selby to Hull).

The existing HOOP train can manage more than 500 miles of double track after the electrification reaches Cardiff. So that includes Swansea.

However, the HOOP train only cost £35m, so it would be easily possible to order a new one and get it into service to start work in 2014.
Get a bunch of new MPVs at the same time and kill off the idiocy of putting Class 66s on RHTT trains.
 

ainsworth74

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However, the HOOP train only cost £35m, so it would be easily possible to order a new one and get it into service to start work in 2014.

The HOOP train might be cheap but everything else that goes with stringing wires? Not so much. I still think that we're at about the limit of what can be afforded in one burst (at the present time).
 

John55

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Doing the sums, Network Rail now has approval to wire over 900 miles of double track.
This is the split over the various NR Routes:

LNW 215 miles
Lancashire Triangle and TP as far as Diggle 106
Bletchley-Bedford/Bicester 35
Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington-Heyford 74
Walsall-Rugeley 15
Barnt Green-Bromsgrove 8 (includes fast lines east of Barnt Green)
LNE 186 miles
Diggle-Copley Hill/Neville Hill-Selby and Colton Jn 56
Bedford-Derby-Sheffield 116
Kettering-Corby 6, Trent-Nottingham 8
GW 287 miles (excludes Valleys)
Hayes-Wootton Bassett-Patchway-Swansea 170
Wootton Bassett-Bristol-Patchway 48
Thames Valley Branches (Windsor, Marlow, Henley) 15
Reading-Newbury 18
Didcot-Oxford-Heyford 24
Oxford-Bicester 12
Valleys 128 miles – 60 miles of which are single track
Wessex 48 miles
Reading-Basingstoke 13
Basingstoke-Southampton 35 (replaces 3rd rail DC)
Scotland 60 miles approx (EGIP)

The 60 miles of single track Valleys lines are balanced by about the same length of quadruple track on the main lines, mostly between Hayes and Swindon and Bristol-Severn Tunnel-Cardiff, plus some around Sheffield, Derby, Oxford.
There are of course complications at many places which will extend the mileage needed to be wired, for things like depots.
The original WCML electrification (Euston-Birmingham-Stoke/Crewe-Manchester-Liverpool) was about 420 route miles (much of it quad track) and took 10 years.
The Glasgow extension was about 220 miles, and the ECML about 430 miles (Hitchin-Edinburgh-Carstairs and Doncaster-Leeds) and both took about 5 years.

The interesting thing now is how NR will manage this vast workload and deliver new stretches to the TOCs.
There will also be big technical issues with signalling and layout to resolve, to say nothing of the 3rd rail issues on the LSW route.
There are already two electrification teams at work on the ground (North West and GW), but it will surely need another couple of teams to deliver all this in parallel, with first class project management.
Time to watch with interest (and buy shares in Balfour Beatty and the other contractors!).

Couple of points;

1...The CP5 proposals are not agreed and signed off yet, although I know of no reason other than cost issues which might stop them.

2...There are 3 electrification teams working GW, NW and Scotland. I am not sure if the completion dates for all the schemes above are before 2019. I think electrification to Cardiff was due to be complete in 2017 for example. Swansea and Cardiff & Valleys will follow on so may not be finished by April 2019. Even so 7 years is a long time and much of the work isn't done by electrification teams. All the work on Lancashire Triangle so far on the ground is civils work such as raising/replacing bridges and putting in foundations for masts and screwing down the masts. So not particularly specialist in nature.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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...But wiring to Bournemouth is on the Cabinet Office website, so who's right?

I think I would trust the DfT version (though they have been known to be wrong/incomplete at times).
Another way of looking at it is that it would surely be stupid to reach Bournemouth and not continue to Weymouth.
 

tbtc

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Another way of looking at it is that it would surely be stupid to reach Bournemouth and not continue to Weymouth.

I'm sure Weymouth will be done too, in time. But by the time they've worked down from Reading to Southampton and on to Bournemouth (after having worked on the GWML as a priority, I presume?), it'll be CP6 I guess.
 

WatcherZero

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The existing HOOP train can manage more than 500 miles of double track after the electrification reaches Cardiff. So that includes Swansea.

However, the HOOP train only cost £35m, so it would be easily possible to order a new one and get it into service to start work in 2014.
Get a bunch of new MPVs at the same time and kill off the idiocy of putting Class 66s on RHTT trains.

They originally tendered for two (one for GWML and one for Lancashire Triangle phases 2 and 3), I dont know why they eventually decided to only build one, I think they thought at the time the original wiring train wasnt going to be used but then changed their mind.
 

Lrd

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Another way of looking at it is that it would surely be stupid to reach Bournemouth and not continue to Weymouth.
CrossCountry and SWT can use the wires to Bournemouth, with SWT changing to DC and carrying on to Weymouth. If the wires finished at Southampton then XC would have to use diesel to carry on to Bomo.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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CrossCountry and SWT can use the wires to Bournemouth, with SWT changing to DC and carrying on to Weymouth. If the wires finished at Southampton then XC would have to use diesel to carry on to Bomo.

The phrase "on renewal" comes up in the HLOS, meaning that when money is required to be spent renewing the DC infrastructure, then is the time to switch to AC.
From memory the Basingstoke-Bournemouth bit was done (1967) well ahead of Bournemouth-Weymouth (1980s), so maybe there is some logic in doing it in two phases split at Bournemouth.

Another big DC section done around the same time as the Bournemouth line in the 60s was East Kent (I think Gillingham/Tonbridge eastwards to Dover/Margate), so maybe this is the next chunk up for AC conversion.
 

mattdickinson

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I was pondering this morning how many new route miles would get electrified, and also what proportion of the national network will be done by end of CP5. Anyone care to do the maths ?

According to wikipedia

"Approximately 40% of the rail network is currently equipped with electrification.total network is 30,764 km, 7,587 km of 25 kV AC, 4,285 km of 650/750 V DC and 28 km of 1500 V DV. Excludes CTRL, LUL, Old Danby test track, bulk of Tyne and Wear Metro, etc. NB it does not state what method of counting length of network is used - i.e. sidings, loops, double track etc. produce different numbers. The UIC statistics that are used in the chart showing electrification in Europe is based solely on line length. Thus on this count, 11,900 km (38.7%) is electrified. Of the electrified network, 65.8% is 25 kV AC, 36.0% is 650/750 V DC and 0.2% is 1,500 V DC"

Another 900 route miles should be about 1400 km, which I think should make it about 43%
 

Chris125

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Is there something The Rail Engineer knows that we don't...yet? In an article on page 55 it mentions both Basingstoke-Poole electrification, Sheffield-Mansfield (Hope Valley) AND Gospel Oak-Barking. I guess a misunderstanding can't be ruled out, but it appears to be based on a meeting between NR and suppliers.

Chris
 
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bluenoxid

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Is there something The Rail Engineer knows that we don't...yet? In an article on page 55 it mentions both Basingstoke-Poole electrification, Sheffield-Mansfield (Hope Valley) AND Gospel Oak-Barking. I guess a misunderstanding can't be ruled out, it appears to be based on a meeting between NR and suppliers.

Chris

Well, I don't know what the author of that article was on but Sheffield to Mansfield would not include the Hope Valley.

Derby - Matlock might be what was mentioned. I would take the whole article with a pinch of salt until someone has had a discussion with the author of that article.
 

ainsworth74

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AND Gospel Oak-Barking.

I thought I'd heard a rumour that the DfT and TfL were approaching some sort of agreement that would see the GOBLIN added as a program or is my mind making things up again? ;)

I guess a misunderstanding can't be ruled out, it appears to be based on a meeting between NR and suppliers.

Well at one point NR had a contract out in the OJEC for wiring to places like Cleethorpes!
 

D365

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I hope Goblin is done, would release the 8 2 car 172s which would allow LM to release their 3 150s, 7 153s and a 3 car 170/6, if rebuilt with new cabs and toilets, and regeared. Could order some more 378s alongside 5th carriages for the existing fleet or even with Merseyrail/GN PEP replacement batches. 90s/92s would be put to good use on freight.

Doesn't ECML Huntingdon-Peterborough re-electrification alongside 4-tracking count? Maybe not since the wires are already there...
 

jopsuk

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It's a real pity the scope of the Scottish electrification has been scaled back- hopefully it'll be reinstated at a not too-much-later date
 

tbtc

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I hope Goblin is done, would release the 8 2 car 172s which would allow LM to release their 3 150s, 7 153s and a 3 car 170/6, if rebuilt with new cabs and toilets, and regeared

Since LM do run 153s as single car units (on Marston Vale, on Coventry - Nuneaton), I can't see eight two-coach 172s replacing eleven LM DMUs.

But by the time that GOBLIN gets wired (if...) then Marston Vale, the Chase Line, Coventry - Nuneaton etc may all be electrified which would mean LM only needed DMUs for the Hereford, Shrewsbury and Snow Hill services - so they'd have a few spare DMUs and not need more.
 

D365

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Oh yeah, forgot about the rest of it! I'm sure Chiltern might appreciate some more 172s, other TOCs will find more DMUs useful too.

I have doubts that we're actually going to be able to get all this done by 2019 or before, on budget with enough EMUs available to allow Pacers to be cascaded out. But I'll wait and see.
 

Tomonthetrain

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I am surprised whilst doing Barnet Green the didn't spark the Camp Hill line as a useful electric diversion route
 

sprinterguy

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I have doubts that we're actually going to be able to get all this done by 2019 or before, on budget with enough EMUs available to allow Pacers to be cascaded out. But I'll wait and see.
With good reason, I would wager: I would envisage that MML and the "electric spine" electrification will easily spill over into the CP6 period before completion, and seeing as it is primarily long distance routes that are being wired up, there's not a chance that all the Pacers will be replaced by the end of 2019 without a new build of suburban DMUs being necessary.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am surprised whilst doing Barnet Green the didn't spark the Camp Hill line as a useful electric diversion route
As the route through Barnt Green (Not Barnet Green) was electrified solely for the use of Cross City line suburban trains, electrifying the Camp Hill line would only be of benefit in the very rare instances when there is a complete line blockage or power failure in the Selly Oak area. Not really enough utilisation to warrant electrification.
 
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The Ham

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As the route through Barnt Green (Not Barnet Green) was electrified solely for the use of Cross City line suburban trains, electrifying the Camp Hill line would only be of benefit in the very rare instances when there is a complete line blockage or power failure in the Selly Oak area. Not really enough utilisation to warrant electrification.

But could make the CBR of reopening of the Camp Hill Line for passenger use better as it could use EMU's.

For details check out (which provides links to the documents listed):
http://martinmullaney.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/update-on-re-opening-both-moseley-and.html

Network Rail has published the West Midlands & Chilterns Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) Draft document which is presently been consulted on and will influence the timetable to when the Moseley and Kings Heath railway stations will re-open. Details of the document can be seen below.

According to the document, Network Rail wants to push the re-opening of these stations back to the year period 2019 to 2024. Prior to the publication of document we had been anticipating their re-opening occurring in during the years 2015 to 2019.

Both Centro and Birmingham City Council are in the process of responding to this document asking for this project to be included in the year period 2015 to 2019. Emily, Ernie and myself will be formally responding this week as well – again requesting for the project to be included in the year period 2015 to 2019.

In the meantime, both Centro and Birmingham City Council have designed the pair of chords required at Bordesley that would link railway services into Moor Street station from Moseley and Kings Heath, and from Castle Vale. The cost of the two chords is calculated to be £150million.

Linking any future service into Moor Street station from Moseley and Kings Heath is crucial. If these chords are not built, then any service from Moseley and Kings Heath would have to go into New Street station, which is cannot accept any more passenger services.
 

Batman

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But could make the CBR of reopening of the Camp Hill Line for passenger use better as it could use EMU's.

For details check out (which provides links to the documents listed):
http://martinmullaney.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/update-on-re-opening-both-moseley-and.html

I didn't realize they'd already gone that far and designed and costed both the curves at Bordesley.

Could we now be looking at a Snow Hill/Moor Street-Walsall service via the Sutton Park line? That's something I'm still in favour of and prefer over the Aldridge extension to Birmingham-Walsall local services.
 
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