EMU classes 507 & 508

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Old Yard Dog, 15 May 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

    Messages:
    522
    Joined:
    21 Aug 2011
    Pardon my ignorance but can anybody tell me the difference between a class 507 & a class 508 EMU? I have been travelling on Merseyrail for 35 years and still cannot tell them apart.
     
  2. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

    Messages:
    2,001
    Joined:
    15 Nov 2011
    Location:
    London
    508s used to be four-car. They were also built later in a different batch, intended for a different area.
     
  3. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,044
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2013
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Don't the 508's have panels over where the door open buttons used to be? Something slightly different with the under floor equipment as well?
     
  4. 8J

    8J Member

    Messages:
    397
    Joined:
    31 Aug 2009
    507's

    - Built for the Merseyrail network
    - Designed as 3 car sets
    - One compressor in the DMS/A vehicle

    508's

    - Built for the southern region but later transferred to Merseyrail
    - Designed as 4 car sets (the 4th car can now be found inserted in SWT Class 455/7 units)
    - 2 older style compressors found in the DMS/A and TSO vehicles

    Also there are slight differences in the cab layouts and when going over a section gap the lights are prone to cut out on 508's but not 507's
     
  5. Juniper Driver

    Juniper Driver Established Member

    Messages:
    1,712
    Joined:
    17 Jul 2007
    Location:
    SWR Metals
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  6. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,332
    Joined:
    10 May 2010
    That article is wrong, it was the first (empty) train of the day (hence the lack of an accident report), I used to work with the driver concerned, he has quite a clear memory of it.

    The day before this incident the Shepperton branch was cut off due to engineering work so they decided to use it for low adhesion trials with the 508s, To lower the adhesion available they had covered the rails in all sorts of slippery liquid but when they finished they didn't bother cleaning the rails, the result was the first train approached Shepperton running on good railhead up to that point but on encountering the contamination the train just carried on through the buffers and over the wall.

    No rheo on them.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  7. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,462
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    The 508's were originally intended for Merseyside like the 507 whose order had been reduced for budgetary reasons, but during construction were diverted to the Southern region to temporarily cover for the late delivery of class 455.
     
  8. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

    Messages:
    6,605
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2012
    Location:
    Another planet...
    So was the original plan for a mix of 3 and 4-car units on Merseyside?
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,778
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Don't think so, the plan was I think always to remove a vehicle before sending them north.
     
  10. Juniper Driver

    Juniper Driver Established Member

    Messages:
    1,712
    Joined:
    17 Jul 2007
    Location:
    SWR Metals
    Good point regarding empty train.

    Was it 507's that had rheo then?
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,778
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Both classes *seem* to decelerate under power.
     
  12. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,462
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    The 508's were specifically ordered for the Wirral line, honestly I don't know either way, it was the early days for the Merseyrail network (opening 1978, 508's delivered 1979). They may have intended them to form single four carriage units and then early operational experience said they should go instead for 1x3 and 2x3 formations. Its hard to imagine that cash strapped BR intentionally had dozens of carriages built which it only intended to use for two years. In those early years wasn't there a greater expectation of further extensions being built in the short term (outer loop and extension to Wigan) which could explain how they ended up with excess stock despite only building 3/5ths of the original orders.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,778
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    I have a feeling inserting them into 455s was always the intention.
     
  14. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,462
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    The 455/7 were ordered as 4 car units then reduced to 3 car during construction. Which suggests a budget saving fudge, was always the plan to recycle the equipment from the withdrawn classes and then further decided to poach some of the Mersey rail coaches as well. BR must have been really cash strapped at the time.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  15. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

    Messages:
    1,121
    Joined:
    24 May 2008
    Location:
    Chester
    The original plan was for a fleet of 3 car 507's to firstly replace the 502's, then the 503's. Although the 502's were a bit crusty at the end, many of the 503's dated from 1956 & were to be replaced last of all.

    However, the funding became an issue & the decision was taken to build a fourth car for some of the units & use them on the south western division out of Waterloo. This meant some rather old 4-subs could be withdrawn.

    This was only ever intended as a temporary measure & the units eventually ended up where they should have been. It was never the plan to run any 4 car units on merseyside as far as I recall.
     
  16. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,648
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    yeh agree. it feels like theyve always got the brakes on!
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,778
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Hee hee, so it does :)

    What I meant was that they sound like it is the traction motors doing the deceleration on both classes, i.e. rheostatic braking.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I must admit, though, that Merseyrail might actually work better, given that 6 cars is often way too long but 3 too short, if they had a fleet of 4-car units running singly all day, but instead upped the frequency base at peak times from the current 15 minute base to a 10 minute base. Though I suppose the downside there would be that the clockface timetable wouldn't be as nice - at present you have for example 00, 15, 30, 45 past each hour during the day, with 00 and 30 in the early morning and evening, so if you turn up at 00 and 30 at any time during the service day you will have a train to catch. Very slick in itself.
     
    Last edited: 16 May 2015
  18. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

    Messages:
    904
    Joined:
    31 Mar 2015
    Location:
    Canary Wharf
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page