Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[Killingworth]

forgot about them but I think they are running evry two hours north of Newcastle right now.

And that's another story

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Indeed. The choice is between one service which takes the time required for two paths, or no service at all.

Ordinarily, you would want two services which take one path each, but unfortunately that is not an option at the moment due to the inferior performance of the Turbos compared to the IETs!

Well of course, when the only other thing really running are 110mph 387s, which take up 1 1/2 paths - it’s merely a flashback to what it used to be like on the Western.

 

[krus_aragon]

Interesting.

Was that poster aimed at (would-be) passengers?

Should I know what a "code black" is?

I suspect most passengers would guess from the name that it's a very-not-good thing. Which would be pretty accurate.

 

[Horizon22]

It was 9 earlier

11 now. But the vast majority (>80%) have failed checks. This includes units in awkward outstabled locations. It will effect the M-F service.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Some operators are looking at hire-ins from ROG (5 x MkIII) and LSL with one 6 coach set, and one 7 coach set available (comprising of all First Class), with Class 47s for loco-hauled top & tail ops.

All still being hashed out though, so do keep an eye out.

 

[py_megapixel]

Doing a bit of googling reveals a GWR leaflet about their policy for providing information to passengers in times of disruption.

It provides a summary of how the quality of service is categorised. Black seems to be the worst:

GREEN - the service is operating normally or with a minimal number of minor delays

YELLOW - there is moderate disruption but customers are able to continue their journeys, albeit with some delay

RED - the service has (or is expected to) deteriorated to a level where customers are experiencing significant delay to their journeys and we are providing alternative transport, tickets can be accepted on other Train Operators services or we are diverting trains via alternative routes

BLACK - we advise customers to avoid travelling as we cannot guarantee they will be able to reach their destination

 

[A Challenge]

11 now. But the vast majority (>80%) have failed checks. This includes units in awkward outstabled locations.

Presumably they can still be moved empty without too harsh a speed restriction?

 

[HST274]

awkward outstabled locations.

Like near Worcester/hereford?

 

[Horizon22]

Like near Worcester/hereford?

Yeah that's one of them.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect most passengers would guess from the name that it's a very-not-good thing. Which would be pretty accurate.

Sounds better than a "code red" though !

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Like near Worcester/hereford?

800308 in the Hereford Sidings at Worcester Shrub Hill this morning.

Kudos to my friend Hasan for the photo.

 

[py_megapixel]

Did any IET services even manage to start this morning before this saga started? If so what happened to the ones that were mid-journey?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There have been previous postings that WCML crews don't sign 185s but are there TPE crew members that only sign 802s and not 185s?

In theory, no.

185s are regarded as core traction. crew initially train on them then convert over to 802 and/or Mk5 which enables and maintains 185s ability to cover for unavailable novas. I do believe Glasgow still sign 185s as they may be used for ECML diversions, however as NR have allegedly banned 185s north of Newcastle due to their lower top end speed (ironic as I have always known 185s to keep to time) then it is likely that competency is lapsing. Preston signed both 185 and 350 as either were previously used on the WCML but all of their work is now exclusively 397 and 185s are no longer used on the WCML (Blackpool having gone over to Northern and 195s) so again competency may now have lapsed. Newcastle is also almost exclusively 802 but some 185 work is retained in their link to maintain competency and will most likely see 802 substituted with 185s south of Newcastle.

802s have been tested along the WCML only this week so could in theory cover for 397s, as Glasgow do sign through to Manchester Piccadilly, but as Newcastle and York don't sign 397s and Glasgow don't sign south of Newcastle 397s couldn't run vice 802. Even if they did they couldn't run south of York anyway, notwithstanding the fact Marshall Meadows doesn't put enough power in to that wiggly wire anyway....

 

[Anonymous10]

what will likely happen in the week then could we expect hsts to be brought in or a patch work service with day tfw doing all services west of i dont know say newport / cardiff gwr providing high speed to bristol and connecting to Cardiff via cross country as a temporary measure to maximize fleets?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Did any IET services even manage to start this morning before this saga started? If so what happened to the ones that were mid-journey?

A few did, and were stopped mid-journey at the closest possible station, if I recall correctly.

 

[Anonymous10]

11 now. But the vast majority (>80%) have failed checks. This includes units in awkward outstabled locations. It will effect the M-F service.

im guessing the better places might be swansea with landore and the hitachi depot there for issues in wales

 

[swt_passenger]

Code Black is part of CSL2 messaging - sometimes it makes its way out into the passenger-facing side of things, but most of the time it’s used internally.

It‘s always easy for staff to accidentally use internal jargon like that, just like you introduced CSL2…

 

[Ianno87]

what will likely happen in the week then could we expect hsts to be brought in or a patch work service with day tfw doing all services west of i dont know say newport / cardiff gwr providing high speed to bristol and connecting to Cardiff via cross country as a temporary measure to maximize fleets?

Guess it will depend on the number of serviceable units. In extremis, might be something very skeleton such as an hourly Paddington-Bristol and hourly Paddington-Cardiff (speculating) only, with connections for everything westward of those points.

 

[Chris217]

802210 is OK.
Just seen it passing Huyton.

 

[DanNCL]

802s have been tested along the WCML only this week so could in theory cover for 397s, as Glasgow do sign through to Manchester Piccadilly, but as Newcastle and York don't sign 397s and Glasgow don't sign south of Newcastle 397s couldn't run vice 802. Even if they did they couldn't run south of York anyway, notwithstanding the fact Marshall Meadows doesn't put enough power in to that wiggly wire anyway....

Presumably the few Edinburgh - Newcastle shuttles that run could use a 397 with Glasgow crew if needed, and then 185s on everything between Newcastle and York? Of coruse there's 802210 available too.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In my understanding all TPE crews sign 185s. Getting and keeping them in the right place may be a challenge, though, as you say. However they do seem to be getting a service going using them.

Checking RTT, it seems 9 of 11 TPE Liverpool-Newcastle have so far been cancelled today, with another 2 starting (very) short at York.
1654 is en route, and the remaining 3 are scheduled to run.

 

[JN114]

what will likely happen in the week then could we expect hsts to be brought in or a patch work service with day tfw doing all services west of i dont know say newport / cardiff gwr providing high speed to bristol and connecting to Cardiff via cross country as a temporary measure to maximize fleets?

Train plan for Skeleton service and continuing use of alternative traction is being fleshed out at GWR.

HSTs will not feature on long distance services. For a variety of good reasons. They may make appearances on services that would be IET operated within their normal spheres of operation.

 

[kels430]

Might be talking rubbish but is there any possibility of these trains being checked today, running for a weeks and then forming cracks in the future?

 

[Killingworth]

Checking RTT, it seems 9 of 11 TPE Liverpool-Newcastle have so far been cancelled today, with another 2 starting (very) short at York.
1654 is en route, and the remaining 3 are scheduled to run.

TPE message at 13.08 to Stakeholders says checks on some units had been completed without finding any faults. Priority today seems to to check all the units ASAP, and get stock and crews into position to operate as near as possible a full service tomorrow. Today is as good as written off.

As GWR units are the oldest and will have completed greater mileages it's not surprising that they and LNER appear to be finding more faults.

 

[55002]

LNER have been running hourly service to and from Leeds and Edinburgh this afternoon, 03 and 30 past hour from London, 15 past from Leeds and 30 past from EDB, which is a good start and shows they can maintain a service with the 801s.

 

[Ianno87]

Might be talking rubbish but is there any possibility of these trains being checked today, running for a weeks and then forming cracks in the future?

Presume those that return to service will get more regular inspections of the problem area to catch cracks developing.

 

[py_megapixel]

Might be talking rubbish but is there any possibility of these trains being checked today, running for a weeks and then forming cracks in the future?

I heard Northern's CAF units - which are also experiencing cracks, with about 20 out of service currently - are being regularly inspected to catch this if it happens, so presumably something similar here?

 

[fgwrich]

I bet a number of the Leasing and Spot Hire Co's are kicking themselves today - Porterbrook and the ex Chiltern Mk3s, ROG for letting go of the 47s, Eversholt for the 321 scrapping etc. A lot of companies and groups have been contacted today.

 

[robbeech]

Might be talking rubbish but is there any possibility of these trains being checked today, running for a weeks and then forming cracks in the future?

Of course, but there will already be people looking into ways to rectify this and there will already be people planning alternative schedules for checking it.
Clearly this isn’t part of every check currently or they’d have found them before but no doubt for the time being it will become more frequent. I think we can rest assured that they will know what to do for the best.

 

[greatvoyager]

I bet a number of the Leasing and Spot Hire Co's are kicking themselves today - Porterbrook and the ex Chiltern Mk3s, ROG for letting go of the 47s, Eversholt for the 321 scrapping etc. A lot of companies and groups have been contacted today.

I wouldn’t be surprised. But then again it’s not as if the stock would be necessarily suitable.