EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Esker-pades]

My experience is that since the referendum there has been little from the Leave side, but a lot of complaining from the Remain side.

I completely disagree. The Leave side has been almost constantly complaining about how various things are "not the real Brexit" or "Brexit in name only" or "against the will of the people" etc.

 

[Essan]

I completely disagree. The Leave side has been almost constantly complaining about how various things are "not the real Brexit" or "Brexit in name only" or "against the will of the people" etc.

I should clarify I was referring to ordinary people, whom I converse with daily in person or on social media, not the useless idiots in Westminster, none of whom I listen to

 

[jellybaby]

I should clarify I was referring to ordinary people

The chap that sits in the row behind me and 3 desks over is as ordinary as I am and was complaining last week how the UK failing to leave on March 29th was illegal and the government should be/are being taken to court.

(our office postcode starts with EC, not SW)

 

[Esker-pades]

I should clarify I was referring to ordinary people, whom I converse with daily in person or on social media, not the useless idiots in Westminster, none of whom I listen to

Fair enough. In which case, I find it's about equal.

 

[ungreat]

Can May revoke A50 unilaterally? Would that not require Parliamentary consent?

Yes she can. Right up to the last minute

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes she can. Right up to the last minute

How is that when Parliamentary consent was required to trigger it?

 

[ungreat]

She can if necessary bypass Parliament to do this
I will find the link to the revocation process. Its sketchy as no other member state has been foolish enough to actually trigger Article 50......
You may recall last year that the ECJ ruled that the UK could revoke Article 50 on its own without consent from the other EU27 states as the UK, like all EU members, is a sovereign state.

 

[GusB]

https://www.ft.com/content/47ab590e-5aba-11e9-939a-341f5ada9d40

Any chance you could post a quote from that article? It's behind a paywall.

 

[ungreat]

Any chance you could post a quote from that article? It's behind a paywall.

I will certainly try yes!

 

[ungreat]

"Theresa May travels to Brussels on Wednesday to ask European leaders for a delay to Brexit. The prime minister is widely expected to agree an extension to Article 50, the formal exit process. However, with differences over how long the extension should be, and what conditions would be attached, there is a possibility that European leaders and Mrs May are unable to reach an agreement. That would leave the UK with two options: a no-deal Brexit at 11pm London time on Friday; or revoking Article 50, thereby stopping the Brexit process. Given that parliament has now legislated to prevent a no-deal Brexit, Mrs May would arguably only have one choice: revocation. What is revocation? Stopping Brexit, at least in the short term. The UK began the formal process of leaving the EU in March 2017 by notifying the bloc of its intention to leave, as envisaged by Article 50 of the EU Treaty. Revocation means taking back this notification so that the UK remains a EU member state on current terms — without changes to its budget contributions or veto powers. Does the EU need to agree to revocation? No. The European Court of Justice ruled in December that a member state can unilaterally revoke a decision to leave — although the UK government and the European Commission had both argued the contrary. By contrast, extending Article 50 requires the unanimous agreement of all EU member states. Legally, how would Mrs May revoke Article 50? The ECJ laid down four relevant conditions. First, the revocation must be “submitted in writing to the European Council” of leaders of EU member states. Second, the revocation must occur before the end of the Article 50 process. So, if the UK left the EU on Friday without a deal, it could not revoke on Saturday. Third, the revocation must be “unequivocal and unconditional”. The meaning of this is debated, but Jolyon Maugham, a barrister who helped to take the issue of revocation to the ECJ, argues that revocation would be invalid if the UK simply intended to restart the Brexit process shortly afterwards. The ECJ’s fourth requirement is that revocation must be made “in accordance with [the member state’s] constitutional requirements.” This is again contested. In January 2017, the UK’s supreme court ruled that the prime minister could not invoke Article 50 without an act of parliament, following a legal challenge by the campaigner Gina Miller. There is an argument that Mrs May would require another act in order to revoke Article 50, which would be a challenge in less than 48 hours. Mr Maugham has argued that the prime minister retains the prerogative power to revoke without consulting parliament. But he suggests that the prime minister could organise a vote among MPs in any case. If MPs have voted for revocation, it would be harder for a Eurosceptic politician to bring a legal challenge saying that the decision was invalid. “Is a court really going to say, contrary to the wishes of parliament, we are not any longer in the EU?” said Mr Maugham. Politically, would revocation be plausible? More than 6m people have signed a petition calling for revocation. In one opinion poll, revocation is the single most popular Brexit option, with 40 per cent support. But even Europhile MPs have been loath to end the Brexit process without another referendum. A motion by the Scottish National party MP Joanna Cherry, which would have set a path to revocation if the alternative were a no-deal Brexit, was defeated by 292 votes to 191 last week. Significantly only nine Conservative MPs voted in favour of it. Mrs May would therefore have a battle to win the support of parliament, and would face an even greater revolt among her own party. Perhaps, however, the threat of a no-deal Brexit within hours would focus MPs’ minds. What would happen after revocation? This depends on Mrs May and parliament. It would almost certainly not bring Brexit to an end. But it would give the UK the chance to have a general election, another referendum or even citizens’ assemblies — to decide on a way forward without a fixed legal deadline. That could be the end of Brexit, or it could be the prelude to another Article 50 notification and another two years (or more) of negotiations."

 

[bnm]

The preceding post is an article from the Financial Times.

 

[SteveP29]

In that case she'll never get her deal through. Sky just now suggest we will get an extension until March 31 2020

Another year of it being the one and only subject on Question Time, glad I'm 9 weeks free of it now

 

[Giugiaro]

I've been thinking... if a long extension is given by the EU, that would mean EU elections. In that stream of thought...

By any chance could the EU elections be used to prove the people of their opinion post Brexit negotiations? Given the MEPs chosen for the EU parliament, the government and commons could read the results to predict the outcome of a second referendum and general election.

I don't usually defend the use of EU elections for the purpose of shaking local politics, but these, in particular, could be used to see if a second referendum + general election would be safe.

 

[takno]

I've been thinking... if a long extension is given by the EU, that would mean EU elections. In that stream of thought...

By any chance could the EU elections be used to prove the people of their opinion post Brexit negotiations? Given the MEPs chosen for the EU parliament, the government and commons could read the results to predict the outcome of a second referendum and general election.

I don't usually defend the use of EU elections for the purpose of shaking local politics, but these, in particular, could be used to see if a second referendum + general election would be safe.

I think people are pretty certain to treat the euro elections as a proxy referendum, although turnout is unlikely to be very high given that participation at the best of times has been poor.

I don't think you can safely conclude anything much at all about a general election from voting in the euros because they are PR, and people won't risk voting the same way in a a GE

 

[Howardh]

October 31st is the new Bday, conveniently just long enough to organise a referendum on any deal May and her no-mates conjour up and remain. Would have been longer but Macron wanted less so we get a half way point.

 

[Giugiaro]

Guess I'll be going to MCM London Comic Con in October.
YESSSSSS!!!!!!

 

[Bantamzen]

October 31st is the new Bday, conveniently just long enough to organise a referendum on any deal May and her no-mates conjour up and remain. Would have been longer but Macron wanted less so we get a half way point.

Its a sensible enough idea, we need considerably more in my opinion, but it at least gives more time for Parliament to find some kind of way forward. I'm not sure the government will take the referendum route though, not only will it delay a decision until much closer to the new deadline but risks a similar result as the original referendum, leaving Parliament still horribly split. I predict the House going for a more EEA style exit, the Brexiteers will then go into meltdown because "it wasn't what we voted for", even though their vote didn't rule it out. Then when the dust settles, the Tories will trigger a vote of no confidence, ending in a General Election which will result in an even more hung Parliament, where coalitions are almost impossible and the government is rendered utterly useless whilst our economy slowly sinks.

But the blue passports will come into effect, so these last 3 years of chaos and uncertainty will have all been worth it...

 

[Greg Read]

October 31st is the new Bday, conveniently just long enough to organise a referendum on any deal May and her no-mates conjour up and remain. Would have been longer but Macron wanted less so we get a half way point.

So now it's end of October, do we still need a Green Card / Driving Permit for Europe, or is that on the back burner too ? (obviously in theory they were needed from 31 March)

 

[edwin_m]

So now it's end of October, do we still need a Green Card / Driving Permit for Europe, or is that on the back burner too ? (obviously in theory they were needed from 31 March)

This means we remain a full member of the EU until the departure date which may be 31 October. If a deal is agreed then the membership might end before that but under the terms of the withdrawal agreement there would still be a transition period when all existing arrangements would apply (I'm not sure if the end of the transition period has changed). So it's pretty safe to assume travel over that period won't be any different from today.

Critical issue now is how long May can hang on and what gets written into UK law in the meantime to tie the hands of the ultra-Brexiteer who's likely to replace her.

 

[nlogax]

Nothing changes with our EU membership until 11pm on the night that we actually exit. EHIC valid, UK driving licenses valid, UK passports through the EU lines valid..even though a few of them may not actually say 'European Union' on the cover.

 

[Groningen]

The problem is not UK and EU, but inside the Tories. As they themself have no majority they get help from the worst partner you can think of; the DUP. Well it is a stay of brexicution.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is not UK and EU, but inside the Tories. As they themself have no majority they get help from the worst partner you can think of; the DUP. Well it is a stay of brexicution.

It doesn't say anything on the cover of mine, it's all worn off. This has never been an issue, not even with notoriously picky Ryanair.

 

[Groningen]

Will the European elections in May (if the proceed) be a kind of a second referendum!? Remember you vote in May and finally in November 2019. What a waste of effort and time! Those elected politicians may never be installed.

 

[Howardh]

So now it's end of October, do we still need a Green Card / Driving Permit for Europe, or is that on the back burner too ? (obviously in theory they were needed from 31 March)

Nope, we are still in the EU and if your EHIC card is about to expire then get a new one!

Isn't being in the EU wonderful, none of this green-card, extra bureaucracy nonsense. We should join full-time!!

 

[edwin_m]

Will the European elections in May (if the proceed) be a kind of a second referendum!? Remember you vote in May and finally in November 2019. What a waste of effort and time! Those elected politicians may never be installed.

Quite possibly. It's likely that the essentially single-issue parties either end of the Brexit spectrum will get a lot of votes at the expense of the "mainstream" parties, and it will be interesting to see which group gets more.

It is said the EU elections will cost over £100m. Which is about three days' worth of contributions to the EU if you believe that bus, or three times what Grayling paid out to Eurotunnel on the non-ferry ferry deal, so not really worth worrying about. If it's the price of hammering out a solution and in particular of letting the people vote on it then in my view it's well worth paying .

 

[JonasB]

TV fans delighted as Brexit renewed for another season

"Fans of Britain’s long-running comedy-drama Brexit are today overjoyed after learning that another season of the popular show has been commissioned." https://newsthump.com/2019/04/11/tv-fans-delighted-as-brexit-renewed-for-another-season/

 

[Howardh]

TV fans delighted as Brexit renewed for another season

"Fans of Britain’s long-running comedy-drama Brexit are today overjoyed after learning that another season of the popular show has been commissioned." https://newsthump.com/2019/04/11/tv-fans-delighted-as-brexit-renewed-for-another-season/

Long may it continue! The longer they keep messing Brexit up the better, keeps them all occupied rather than messing up the NHS, education, policing!

 

[nlogax]

Long may it continue! The longer they keep messing Brexit up the better, keeps them all occupied rather than messing up the NHS, education, policing!

Maybe it'll keep going for another few years until, like most things, the public loses interest and the whole thing is quietly dropped..

 

[takno]

Long may it continue! The longer they keep messing Brexit up the better, keeps them all occupied rather than messing up the NHS, education, policing!

I like the theory, but between the existing budget commitments and everybody being too busy to watch them, they are getting away with carrying on the worst of Osborne's madness

 

[Howardh]

I like the theory, but between the existing budget commitments and everybody being too busy to watch them, they are getting away with carrying on the worst of Osborne's madness

But..but..but we voted for Osborne in 2015; austerity's the will of the people innit??