EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Gutfright]

This does not follow.

Of course it does.

Would you be likely to choose the best MP if the only information you had about each candidate was what shoes they wore? I doubt it. You would need to know more.

As most of us don't know enough, its madness to let us choose who makes decisions.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Of course it does.

Would you be likely to choose the best MP if the only information you had about each candidate was what shoes they wore? I doubt it. You would need to know more.

As most of us don't know enough, its madness to let us choose who makes decisions.

No it doesn't. Being at the reins and knowing who you want at the reins are two very different things.

You're trying to make an absurd point that simply does not follow.

 

[Mvann]

We are talking about referendums here. In this country they are not legally binding and can only be taken as part of the decision making process. Obviously somebody somewhere new this was the case with reference to the article 50 procedure. The question is who. I don't think internal changes need a referendum because sovereignty is not actually leaving the uk. Mastricht did lose some sovereignty to the EU. And so have the treaties since.

 

[Gutfright]

No it doesn't. Being at the reins and knowing who you want at the reins are two very different things.

The less informed someone is, the less likely it is that the person they want at the reins is actually going to be the best person for the job.

When most of us don't know enough, that means that oftentimes we will choose a sub-optimal candidate. That's what happens when you make decisions from a position of ignorance.

 

[TheKnightWho]

The less informed someone is, the less likely it is that the person they want at the reins is actually going to be the best person for the job.

When most of us don't know enough, that means that oftentimes we will choose a sub-optimal candidate. That's what happens when you make decisions from a position of ignorance.

Yet it still doesn't mean ignorant people are at the reins. You're trying to fudge this into being a direct analogy by saying that they're the same when the people are 100% ignorant, but they aren't, so it doesn't work.

 

[EM2]

We are talking about referendums here. In this country they are not legally binding...

They can be. The referendum on AV was.

 

[Gutfright]

Yet it still doesn't mean ignorant people are at the reins.

Nor does it mean that the best people are at the reins.

If the people are not going to choose the best leaders, why ask for their ignorant, ignorant opinions at all?

 

[EM2]

If the people are not going to choose the best leaders, why ask for their ignorant, ignorant opinions at all?

Two people can be equally well-informed, but still disagree on who is the best leader.

 

[Howardh]

Well, today's argument (apart from who's the Most Hated Man In Britain - Farage or Chris Evans...ahem) is what do we do with EU nationals already living here, do we throw them out if other countries throw ours out...how do we decide who...do we chuck out pensioners...
Again, again, again NO BREXIT PLAN and yet all this was brought up before the referendum. Project Fear? Project "That's another thing we hadn't thought of that Vol XVI".

 

[Mvann]

Simple. Only guarantee that those that arrived here on or before 26th June 2016 can stay. Otherwise you could end up with 500000 immigrants next year. How can you state your intentions on what to do with them when you aren't the ones in power and don't know what the EU will do. None of the political parties had a policy on what would happen if leave won.

 

[EM2]

None of the political parties had a policy on what would happen if leave won.

Well, they wouldn't, because leaving isn't a policy that any of them supported (except UKIP).

 

[Gutfright]

"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Civil servants have been planning for Brexit even before the referendum, but they're playing their cards close to their chest.

 

[radamfi]

Simple. Only guarantee that those that arrived here on or before 26th June 2016 can stay. Otherwise you could end up with 500000 immigrants next year. How can you state your intentions on what to do with them when you aren't the ones in power and don't know what the EU will do. None of the political parties had a policy on what would happen if leave won.

A lot of people will already be put off by now because of the well publicised unfriendly welcome new incomers get and will be concerned that they'll be forced out in a few years. Britain isn't the only option and contrary to popular opinion people have been working in other countries, even ones that don't speak English as a first language.

 

[Mvann]

Well, they wouldn't, because leaving isn't a policy that any of them supported (except UKIP).

Exactly. We vote for our politicans on the manifestos that their parties produce. Nobody except ukip had a brexit plan in there manifestos because leave wasn't supposed to win. Even the EU didn't expect anybody to actually leave, otherwise article 50 wouldn't have been written with the words "according to a country's constitution" in it. Somebody obviously knew the flaws in article 50. Mr Junkers obviously didn't, otherwise he wouldn't have said what he did after the results were announced. The other 27 countries probably didn't realise. Did Cameron realise and just put out an empty threat/promise about starting the process on the 24th June? Did borris realise when he joined the leave campaign?
The remainers didn't realise and probably still haven't grasped the meaning. The markets didn't, otherwise why the mass panic after the results were announced. So who did know?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Allowing the people to have a say over what happens is a terrible idea. All our decisions should be made by financial elites.

I do not often agree with you, but what you say makes a lot of sense.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

never let arse lickers make decisions , their breath stinks

Anyone with any sense would not involve themselves with anyone indulging in such disgusting personal habits, such as the one that you have discussed above....

 

[Busaholic]

Nigel Farage in his speech today was happy to say that some of the people voting Leave never voted in General Elections. In other words, they never voted for anyone, just against the whole system. Let it be the epitaph for a hateful man who encouraged the hate-filled.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Because most of us don't know enough, we are liable to elect the wrong people. Wouldn't it make more sense for our government to be chosen directly by financial and industry leaders instead?

NO. Financial and Industry leaders only care about themselves and their firms. They don't care about the unemployed, about benefits, about the NHS, etc.

They care about working conditions enough to not want anything that would cost them excessively.

The rich would get exceedingly rich and the rest of us would be forced to tip our cap at them and beg to keep our jobs.

 

[TRAX]

Indeed. That's just calling for more corruption than there already is.

 

[anme]

Feeling proud today, leavers? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit

This is Britain two weeks into this farce. Imagine what it will be like in two months.

 

[ianhr]

Feeling proud today, leavers? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit

This is Britain two weeks into this farce. Imagine what it will be like in two months.

Every non UK EU national living in the UK should be writing to their respective London Embassy, Poland, Lithuania, Spain etc etc. (they can of course do this in their own language) asking what is being done to protect their residence and employment rights, access to benefits, pensions etc etc.?The ambassadors will then relay these concerns to the FO.

Similarly UK nationals living in other EU countries should do the same via the British Embassy in Paris, Madrid, Brussels etc etc.

 

[Groningen]

That German wife of Farage should be kicked out of the UK.

 

[northwichcat]

That German wife of Farage should be kicked out of the UK.

Farage's campaign would have been more successful if he'd said "Immigration causes problems down the line. I'm the descendant of an immigrant and look how many problems I cause, while Boris is another."

 

[miami]

Feeling proud today, leavers? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit

This is Britain two weeks into this farce. Imagine what it will be like in two months.

I watched questiontime last night, I was mildly impressed with Douglas Carswell. He was calling for the government to make a cast iron guarentee that people currently living in the UK would continue to be living here.

I wish UKIP were in charge of everything brexit related. At least someone would be in charge.

 

[Muttley]

Feeling proud today, Tory voters ? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit

This is Britain two weeks into this farce. Imagine what it will be like in two months.

Fixed that for you.
Let's put the blame where it lies.

 

[Mvann]

Feeling proud today, leavers? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit

This is Britain two weeks into this farce. Imagine what it will be like in two months.

No but feeling proud that we will not be letting the EU run our armed forces, coast guard and boarder control.

 

[bnm]

Fixed that for you.
Let's put the blame where it lies.

Indeed. They gave use the Prime Minister who was the architect of this mess.

 

[radamfi]

No but feeling proud that we will not be letting the EU run our armed forces, coast guard and boarder control.

But there was no guarantee that was actually going to happen. The UK is not even in Schengen so would hardly allow those things.

 

[Railops]

Hungary to have a referendum on Oct. 2nd on the EU's plan to dump economic migrants on them without their agreement.

http://www.dw.com/en/hungary-announces-referendum-on-eu-migrant-relocation-policy/a-19378430

An announcement from the office of Hungarian President Janos Ader on Tuesday said that a referendum would be held on October 2. Ader's office said that voters will be asked to answer the question "Do you want the European Union to prescribe the
mandatory settlement of non-Hungarian citizens in Hungary even without the consent of Parliament?"

 

[TheKnightWho]

Hungary to have a referendum on Oct. 2nd on the EU's plan to dump economic migrants on them without their agreement.

http://www.dw.com/en/hungary-announces-referendum-on-eu-migrant-relocation-policy/a-19378430

Or, more accurately, to deal with the Syrian refugee crisis.

But don't worry - they have smartphones so they must be rich, right? :roll:

 

[Tetchytyke]

No but feeling proud that we will not be letting the EU run our armed forces, coast guard and boarder control.

Luckily the EU didn't control any of those things, innit. This is typical of the Brexit lot: "thank goodness the EU aren't running [insert thing the EU weren't running and didn't want to run]!" Absolutely gormless.

Although I expect you'll be somewhat less impressed when France make us take our juxtaposed border controls out in Calais.