EM2
Established Member
OK, let me amend the question.Evidence is after an event not before.
What reasons do you have for your assertion?
OK, let me amend the question.Evidence is after an event not before.
As soon as some people here the word UKIP they call them racist fanatics
Do you have evidence that if the UK withdraws its Article 50 submission, the rebate will be lost?... But if we end up staying as a result, we'll (a) lose the rebates ...
Davis was the UK's lead negotiator. He is a Leaver.The problem now is that we left negotiation to Remainiacs
We did have an open and frank debate in the last referendum. The Remain campaign, well-funded using taxpayers' money, put forward every scare story they could think of, but we still voted to leave even if it does have short-term negative economic effects..
The problem now is that we left negotiation to Remainiacs, whose aim (together with the EU's) was to get a terrible deal for the UK and then paint it as the fault of Brexit in principle, in the hope that we end up staying.
But if we end up staying as a result, we'll (a) lose the rebates (b) be stuck on a conveyor belt of greater harmony including an EU army (c) be tied to all the EU crises, Euro, poor youth employment etc
Why do the left usually have to take a lot of responsibility?
Don't you know, their liberal policies allow law and order to break down, teenage pregnancies to mushroom, taking away housing stock because we have to give them free houses, allowing immigration to run wild and taking away housing stock because, you know, we have to give all those muzzies free houses and also give both teenage mothers and immigrants loads and loads and loads of benefits and stuff.
Then there is the lie about a European army. It is proposed, not (even yet) for real and just as the UK managed to stay out of the Euro and Schengen, there would be no way that we could be forced to commit out forces to an EU chosen commander, elected or not, (even one that happened to be a UK citizen).
I disagree.This is what happens when you take to the electorate with a vague question requiring a complex answer.
I disagree.
It'd be fairer to say this is what happens when you take to the electorate a 50/50 choice but do absolutely no planning for one of the outcomes.
Then once the result was in it should have been a cross party working group as opposed to split on party political terms.
The same way we manage at a GE. I can't see every single Con/Lab voter agreeing with every single word of the respective manifesto, but people manage to make a choice.There were so many options which weren't directly on the ballot paper. Voting remain wasn't to keep things as they are, it was to accept the reforms David Cameron had got from the EU and to be an EU member on those terms - what if you didn't agree with those reforms? Voting leave was just to leave the EU what if you wanted to leave but thought a Norway style deal was worse than remaining?
The problem now is that we left negotiation to Remainiacs, whose aim (together with the EU's) was to get a terrible deal for the UK and then paint it as the fault of Brexit in principle, in the hope that we end up staying.
The same way we manage at a GE. I can't see every single Con/Lab voter agreeing with every single word of the respective manifesto, but people manage to make a choice.
Interesting that your proposed amendments to the vote include various extensions to the leave option but nothing other than remain "as is" on the remain side.This is what happens when you take to the electorate with a vague question requiring a complex answer. At the very least the referendum should have had additional options in the case of a leave vote, asking between a full no deal withdrawal, partial withdrawal or a Norwegian style deal. This would have forced a debate on the leave options and given those "Brexit means Brexit" mantra followers no place to hide, and forced them to go beyond empty jingoistic rhetoric.
We needed open and frank debate, we got playground shenanigans and name calling. May and her team felt they had to appease these people, and this bodged rush job of a deal is the result.
Another day of popcorn politics. There's likely to be a confidence vote with at least 48 letters having been received. Today, maybe..?
And Gove isn't quitting.
...and that's why Leave won....With remain we knew what we were getting...
Who would be the alternative leader to TM who could a) win a majority of Cons membership votes; b) win a majority at the next general election?
Don't you know, their liberal policies allow law and order to break down, teenage pregnancies to mushroom, taking away housing stock because we have to give them free houses, allowing immigration to run wild and taking away housing stock because, you know, we have to give all those muzzies free houses and also give both teenage mothers and immigrants loads and loads and loads of benefits and stuff.
...and that's why Leave won.
Without 're-running 2yrs ago, we had a vote in '75 of staying in a trading bloc, that has manifestly changed to "ever closer political union". We knew we'd get this vote and that would be it for another 40yrs. Where would be then ? Who knows.
That wins the prize for the most racist and uninformed (other than by the Daily Express headlines) post I've ever seen on here. I'm not even going to bother to take your posting apart.
This carry-on is the best entertainment I've had in ages.
Pretty sure post was tongue in cheek.
The Brexit Secretaries were David Davis and Dominic Raab, neither known for their Remainiac views. Project fear warned at the start that the EU would not give us a good deal. They did not. When Davis couldn't get the deal he wanted, and was never going to get, he quit. Like most of the cowardly Brexiteers, who prefer to agitate from the outside, rather than stand up and take responsibility. For the majority leading the country into leave this has all been about themselves, their personal wealth and the wealth of their associates. They do not care about the country, the economy or the vast majority of the population whose quality of life will be greatly reduced for the sake of blue passports and "taking back control".
...and that's why Leave won.
Without 're-running 2yrs ago, we had a vote in '75 of staying in a trading bloc, that has manifestly changed to "ever closer political union". We knew we'd get this vote and that would be it for another 40yrs. Where would be then ? Who knows.
At the EU referendum I didn't consider leaving the EU was worth the economic risks considering we still haven't recovered from the last recession and there wasn't any clear plan of how we would leave so I voted to remain