F1 2013

[90sWereBetter]

Some great action all throughout the field yesterday. Shame Alonso's DRS failed, because I'm pretty sure he'd have won or at least taken the fight to Finger Boy (Vettel).

Drivers of the day have to be Alonso (for somehow getting back into the points), Grosjean (out in Q2, yet gets on the podium. I really want him to succeed in F1) and Di Resta (pretty much the first time he's ever impressed me).

And Gutierrez drove like a tool once again. Bloody Sauber, you got rid of Kobayashi for this idiot, just for money? At the rate he's driving at the moment, any money the team get from his sponsorship will be offset by the repair bills he wracks up. Not happy at all. Kamui Kobayashi was probably my favourite driver in the field between 2010 and 2012, even more so than Button..

 

[90sWereBetter]

And to think this time last year, we were all celebrating Pastor Maldonado WINNING an F1 race. Why Williams, did you have to build such a crap car this year? :cry:

All in all, good race this afternoon. Alonso's first few corners will be stuff of legend in years to come.

I don't think I've seen Lewis Hamilton drive so badly since the days of him crashing into Massa on an almost weekly basis in 2011. Mercedes were bloody awful, but kudos to Rosberg for staying up there as long as he could, unlike Hamilton...

 

[Harbon 1]

And to think this time last year, we were all celebrating Pastor Maldonado WINNING an F1 race. Why Williams, did you have to build such a crap car this year? :cry:

All in all, good race this afternoon. Alonso's first few corners will be stuff of legend in years to come.

I don't think I've seen Lewis Hamilton drive so badly since the days of him crashing into Massa on an almost weekly basis in 2011. Mercedes were bloody awful, but kudos to Rosberg for staying up there as long as he could, unlike Hamilton...

I don't think they have built a crap car, it's just they haven't moved forward as much as everyone else. But it is a shame really. Alonso was awesome at the start! And merc Definately need to get their act togeather along with mclaren

 

[Bungle73]

And to think this time last year, we were all celebrating Pastor Maldonado WINNING an F1 race. Why Williams, did you have to build such a crap car this year? :cry:

It's not crap...at least compared with last year's car..it's just that everyone else has made greater progress.

 

[David]

What Mercedes have done is they've built a 1 lap wonder car. Hamilton again demonstrated his ability to chew tyres to shreds, something he could get away with at McLaren.

Something needs to be done with the tyres though, as even the hardest compound are literally disintergrating. Hamilton and Massa (twice) were the losers in the tyre lottery in Bahrain, while Paul Di Resta in Friday practise and Jean-Eric Vergne today were the losers.

 

[Bungle73]

Everyone is complaining about the tyres. Paul Hembery tweeted this this afternoon.

"@PaulHembery: We aim for 2-3 pit stops. Today was too many, we got it wrong, too aggressive. We will make changes, probably from Silverstone."

 

[Liam]

I don't think 4 stops is too much, if the tyres could be driven hard, then hitting the 'cliff'. At the moment the drivers are having to hold back to keep the tyres happy.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I think the teams (coughRedBullcough) should stop moaning and work with the tyres they've got. If Ferrari and Lotus have built cars that work well with the current rubber, why should they have their advantage taken away just because of the failings of the other teams to make the tyres work.

Raikkonen for the championship, thank you very much.

 

[David]

It's not that I think that the tyres should be changed because some teams are struggling, I think they should be changed because they should not be failing when (nearly) new, as what happened with Di Resta and Vergne this weekend, and Hamilton and Massa at Bahrain

 

[hairyhandedfool]

AIUI, the tyres failed for the same reasons last season and many seasons before, the difference is the type of failure. Pirelli have attempted to reduce the number of punctures caused by debris on the track, by adding 'armour' to the tyres, this 'armour' is causing the tyres to lose the outer carcass after these incidents, rather than the whole tyre being allowed to deflate and destroy itself.

 

[LE Greys]

AIUI, the tyres failed for the same reasons last season and many seasons before, the difference is the type of failure. Pirelli have attempted to reduce the number of punctures caused by debris on the track, by adding 'armour' to the tyres, this 'armour' is causing the tyres to lose the outer carcass after these incidents, rather than the whole tyre being allowed to deflate and destroy itself.

Which is a very good idea, we certainly don't want any Mansell/Adelaide-type incidents, and making sure that a car can recover to the pits is a very good idea. The problem, though, is lack of durability and performance differential with older tyres. The last old race I watched was the 1995 European Grand Prix, and Schumacher there managed to gain 2 seconds a lap over Alesi, partly by having newer tyres, so he caught up a 25-second lead and got through. Those were the old Goodyear tyres, which didn't create such serious 'marbles' either.

Still, I was naturally delighted with the result. The championship looks like a three-horse race this year, but a few good results in any direction could give anyone a clear lead. I'm just hoping that Alonso follows this with a win at Monaco, and that we don't get a 'crocodile' forming behind two Mercedes who run out of rubber after five laps (as Coulthard suggested might happen).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Pirellli have kept pretty much to the mandate, so much did we want degrading tyres (thanks in no small apart to the Canadian GP) that the fast teams are alleging they get a raw deal and the economical teams don't want it to change.

Is having a pit stop every 15-20 laps a good thing? Probably not for every race, but having one stop every race would be just as bad, if not worse.

The problem with the Monaco/Mercedes theory is that the Mercs will have to pit for tyres, even if they do it once each (the minimum if it doesn't rain) they will lose places. If they don't pit, I think the 'pit straight' is long enough for a pass against a car with no grip.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Sadly, it looks like Vettel and Red Bull have got their own way.

GO HOME RED BULL.

 

[Lampshade]

There are way too many three week gaps in this year's calendar

 

[LE Greys]

It all depends on the situation, really. I wouldn't mind a race with no stops at all (as sometimes happened in the eighties) provided there was plenty of action, some decent racing and a bit of unpredictability - and perhaps the occasional mechanical retirement. If, for instance, it worked something like this (figures for illustrative purposes only).

• Hard tyres (Grade A) - will last an entire average race, but be 5-10sec/lap slower by the end, gradually wearing out over time
• Medium tyres (Grade B) - will last half as long as A's, but will be 1-2sec/lap faster when new, gradually losing this advantage as they wear out
• Soft tyres (Grade C) - will last half as long as B's, but will be 1-2sec/lap faster when new, gradually losing this advantage as they wear out
• Super-soft tyres (Grade D) - will last half as long as C's, but will be 1-2sec/lap faster when new, gradually losing this advantage as they wear out

With no restrictions about when they use them at all. They can even introduce a Grade E qualifying tyre that just does three laps if they want to. This makes the decision to pit much more of a calculated gamble than a 'need', giving them something that they can keep up their sleeve.

 

[Heinz57]

McLaren have anounced a new partnership with Honda to start in 2015.

Of course Honda only recently left the sport after they pulled out of BAR. The last time though that Honda and McLaren were paired was during the last 1980s and early 1990s when McLaren dominated. They provided the engine for the infamous Mp4/4 which won every race but one in the 1998 season.

So the two back together again? This could be interesting.

 

[David]

Time to resurrect this thread .....

Mercedes could be in a lot of trouble, after they used this years car in a Pirelli test. While the test itself was ok, the regulations state that any testing must be done using a car that is at least 2 years old. Ferrari have also done a test for Pirelli this year, but they did use a car from 2011.

Interestingly, with the tyre debate continuing, I think that Pirelli got the tyre selection wrong for the Canadian GP. The super-soft was ok, as it was lasting the expected 15-20 laps, but the medium tyre was overkill. Paul di Resta started on the medium and went through to lap 57 before making his 1 and only pit stop, and was still lapping quickly* towards the end of the stint. I would have preferred the soft and super-soft tyres to have been used as that would have guaranteed to hit Pirelli's target of 2 or 3 pitstops in a race.

* He was lapping within a second of Vettel and Alonso on lap 50.

 

[Bungle73]

Sadly a marshal was killed at this event.

 

[Trainfan344]

Sadly a marshal was killed at this event.

Indeed, very sad news, sounds like a bad accident.

 

[Ivo]

It appears that the great Murray Walker has been diagnosed with cancer

I am sure everyone here will wish him a full and rapid recovery.

 

[90sWereBetter]

It appears that the great Murray Walker has been diagnosed with cancer

I am sure everyone here will wish him a full and rapid recovery.

Absolutely dreadful news, but the good thing is that it appears they've caught the cancer at a very early stage, so the likelyhood of him winning the battle is increased.

 

[Bungle73]

Tyres failing all over the place. Something has to be done. Gutted for Lewis.

Made for a great race though.

 

[David]

I suspect a lot of people involved with F1 will not be happy after today. Hamilton and Massa had catastrophic leaft rear tyre failures through turns 3, 4 and 5, while Vergne and Perez had catastrophic failures on Hanger Straight, ultimately leading to their retirements from the race. Quite a few drivers had to make precautionary stops as well, as there was signs the tyres were near failure. Oh, Perez had a catastrophic failure during practice as well which resulted in a new floor and new rear wing being fitted to his car after the failure damaged those parts.

I suspect now that Pirelli will not have their contract to supply tyres from F1 renewed at the end of the season.

 

[Ivo]

Just before the BBC One feed finished, they had a short segment with Gary Anderson at Turn 4 in which he identified that the kerb had very sharp edges on the side away from the road. Given the nature of the driving in that area, cars will frequently jump that kerb, and some will invariably slash against it - leading to punctures in tyres that are not strong enough to resist that sharpness (which any sports tyre needs to be owing to regular debris on track).

I agree that the relationship between the FIA and Pirelli must be getting weaker almost by the day now...

 

[bnm]

However, as David Coulthard pointed out, the damage was likely caused by a wheel that was off the track.

If you go off the track to gain a precious few thousandths of a second then some may argue that the fault lies with the driver, not the kerb or tyre.

But, the catastrophic tyre failures that followed them being cut by driving off the track are a cause for concern.

I'm not sure though that too much criticism should be levelled at Pirelli (although, as it's fashionable to do so at the moment, it probably will). Could Pirelli really have foreseen how the side walls of their tyres would react to being driven off the racing surface?

 

[Bungle73]

Just before the BBC One feed finished, they had a short segment with Gary Anderson at Turn 4 in which he identified that the kerb had very sharp edges on the side away from the road. Given the nature of the driving in that area, cars will frequently jump that kerb, and some will invariably slash against it - leading to punctures in tyres that are not strong enough to resist that sharpness (which any sports tyre needs to be owing to regular debris on track).

I agree that the relationship between the FIA and Pirelli must be getting weaker almost by the day now...

But it hasn't happened before. Has that kerb been changed recently?

However, as David Coulthard pointed out, the damage was likely caused by a wheel that was off the track.

If you go off the track to gain a precious few thousandths of a second then some may argue that the fault lies with the driver, not the kerb or tyre.

But, the catastrophic tyre failures that followed them being cut by driving off the track are a cause for concern.

I'm not sure though that too much criticism should be levelled at Pirelli (although, as it's fashionable to do so at the moment, it probably will). Could Pirelli really have foreseen how the side walls of their tyres would react to being driven off the racing surface?

Yes, because it's nothing the drivers haven't done a million times before at this, and other, circuits. It's perfectly normal to ride the kerbs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Were the kerbs a problem? Fernando Alonso doesn't seem to think so:

Fernando Alonso doubts that Silverstone's kerbs were to blame for the tyre failures seen in the British Grand Prix.

After Lewis Hamilton, Jean-Eric Vergne and Alonso's own Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa had suffered spectacular left-rear blow-outs in the opening stages of Sunday's race, drivers were urged over team radio to stay away high-speed Silverstone's kerbs in an attempt to guard against any more punctures.

Most drivers noticeably didn't heed this advice and Alonso was particularly open about the fact after overcoming his poor qualifying result, and what he admitted were several "lucky" moments, to finish on the bottom step of the podium.

Davidson analyses tyre failures

"It was impossible. I didn't stay off the kerbs to be honest," he told Sky Sports F1.

"I was position 11th, ninth, eighth. You are in dirty air behind people so you are not in control perfectly of the car where you will position the car at the exit of the corners."

And in a cutting response to early suggestions that the kerbs may have directly triggered the repeat failures, the double World Champion added: "I don't think that the kerbs have any influence because I have been racing 12 years now in Silverstone and the kerbs they were never a problem.

"So I don't think that this year they were a problem."

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...en-a-problem-at-Silverstone-amid-tyre-fallout

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It's obviously a combination of the tyres for this season, the line the drivers take and the kerbs at Silverstone. Pirelli changed the tyre making process for this season to try to stop punctures from debris at high temperatures, that could be the only difference and maybe the new tyre design has a weakness at the point that the kerb was 'cutting' it.

The tyre manufacturing process was changed slightly after the last outbreak of tyre problems and this appears to be the result of it, rather than just the tread coming off (which is relatively safe by comparison), the tyre now falls apart. Ofcourse, the FIA rules don't allow Pirelli to change the tyre design without all the teams approving the changes and they can't easily test them anyway.

 

[Bungle73]

Pirelli actually wanted to bring a new tyre design to this race, but bickering by some of the top teams prevented it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One of the BBC commentators pointed out that the race track is defined by the white lines so strictly speaking they shouldn't be using the kerbs the way they do anyway.

I wonder if anyone would ever try to enforce that rule? I suspect not...

 

[TOCDriver]

One of the BBC commentators pointed out that the race track is defined by the white lines so strictly speaking they shouldn't be using the kerbs the way they do anyway.

I wonder if anyone would ever try to enforce that rule? I suspect not...

No need to enforce it. If you stray outside the boundaries, you chance your luck (i.e blown tyres , stop and go penalty etc)