Failure of assistance

[OneOffDave]

Due to an injury I'm having to commute daily into Euston using a wheelchair. On Friday evening the train home pulled into MKC and the booked assistance didn't arrive. Luckily four very helpful fellow passengers lifted me off the train so I didn't get carried on to points north. I accept that things like this happen but it bothered me that there seemed to be no way of letting the train crew know of the situation without using the emergency passenger comms.

Anyone got any suggestions/advice?

 

[headshot119]

When this happened to someone I knew, I suggested if it happened again that they ask a nearby passenger to attract the attention of the guard / platform staff.

This worked quite well a couple of years later when the assistance didn't arrive.

 

[Carntyne]

I'd say this is where you should use the Pass Com, others may disagree though?

 

[kevinwaltets]

That's what the pass com is for. Use it !

 

[berneyarms]

Absolutely use the emergency passenger comms facility in that case.

 

[Minilad]

I would say yes use the pass-com. But before the train moves off

 

[Bletchleyite]

Further agreement that this is exactly the kind of thing the passcom is for.

 

[TDK]

The call for aid is possibly better than the pass comm, there should be one at the position that you were in if you were in the designated wheelchair area.

 

[LowLevel]

Quite agree from another guard - use the pass com. If it was a quiet train and particularly a DOO one (though obviously not in this case) you could be on it for goodness knows how far otherwise.

 

[theageofthetra]

Totally agree re the passcomm whilst stationary. In the DOO world if I see any passenger boarding with assistance I try to ensure I know which stop they are alighting at- though most platform staff will tell you anyway.

 

[OneOffDave]

Cheers everyone. Luckily most of my journeys will be on busy commuter trains so I shouldn't get too stranded

 

[SPADTrap]

Similar to theageofthetra, if I see platform staff assisting a passenger onto the train I'll always go back to ask where they are travelling to (DOO) so I can look out for platform staff to assist the passenger at their destination. I've seen passengers assist a wheelchair user off the train when no one met them before which was embarrassing to say the least. I'd totally understand a pulled passcom or call for aid regardless of whether I'd began moving off or not, while stationary is preferable as it still allows the passenger to make their destination but if the train has began to move then still use the passcom or the call for aid.

 

[Urban Gateline]

It is embarassing when assistances are not met, unfortunately sometimes there is a lack of communication between stations, where I work I would say it happens at least once a week when we get an unbooked assistance turn up off a train with no call from their originating station to let us know!

 

[ComUtoR]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't believe that the passcom use is appropriate.

The passcom is for EMERGENCY use. Being unable to alight is not an emergency. As already mentioned and to reply for the benefit of the OP. Informing the Driver/Guard what station you need when boarding is probably the best way of letting train crew know. Well trained crew will look out for you and check for the assistance when stopping at the station. Other polite passengers alighting and boarding are also a better option than the passcom.

On a side note. If you are in a wheelchair are you able to reach the passcom ? I know on some of our units you have to be standing. TDK's mention of the call to aid is a good one because in the designated wheelchair area the passcom is in a reachable place.

In all my years I think I have been passcomed TWICE for a valid emergency. The rest have been rather inconsequential and could have been dealt with by other means. Train design has a lot to answer for and I would support a better way for passengers to communicate with someone that doesnt involve the train coming to an abrupt halt.

 

[SPADTrap]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't believe that the passcom use is appropriate.

The passcom is for EMERGENCY use. Being unable to alight is not an emergency. As already mentioned and to reply for the benefit of the OP. Informing the Driver/Guard what station you need when boarding is probably the best way of letting train crew know. Well trained crew will look out for you and check for the assistance when stopping at the station. Other polite passengers alighting and boarding are also a better option than the passcom.

On a side note. If you are in a wheelchair are you able to reach the passcom ? I know on some of our units you have to be standing. TDK's mention of the call to aid is a good one because in the designated wheelchair area the passcom is in a reachable place.

In all my years I think I have been passcomed TWICE for a valid emergency. The rest have been rather inconsequential and could have been dealt with by other means. Train design has a lot to answer for and I would support a better way for passengers to communicate with someone that doesnt involve the train coming to an abrupt halt.

I don't think you are the only one but as there isn't any other option to alert train crews (DOO) then it has to be acceptable use - over carrying the individual certainly isn't nice. I've had to assist a passenger who was dealing with the fear/confusion and embarrassment this causes when I was platform staff.

 

[berneyarms]

I don't think you are the only one but as there isn't any other option to alert train crews (DOO) then it has to be acceptable use - over carrying the individual certainly isn't nice. I've had to assist a passenger who was dealing with the fear/confusion and embarrassment this causes when I was platform staff.

Exactly - there needs an element of common sense used.

Assuming that the train is still in the station, which is what the OP was saying, I don't see what the issue is here in using the pass comm - let's be honest it is a kind of emergency for such a passenger if there is no other way for them to de-train.

 

[OneOffDave]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't believe that the passcom use is appropriate.

The passcom is for EMERGENCY use. Being unable to alight is not an emergency. As already mentioned and to reply for the benefit of the OP. Informing the Driver/Guard what station you need when boarding is probably the best way of letting train crew know. Well trained crew will look out for you and check for the assistance when stopping at the station. Other polite passengers alighting and boarding are also a better option than the passcom.

On a side note. If you are in a wheelchair are you able to reach the passcom ? I know on some of our units you have to be standing. TDK's mention of the call to aid is a good one because in the designated wheelchair area the passcom is in a reachable place.

In all my years I think I have been passcomed TWICE for a valid emergency. The rest have been rather inconsequential and could have been dealt with by other means. Train design has a lot to answer for and I would support a better way for passengers to communicate with someone that doesnt involve the train coming to an abrupt halt.

On the service I use I often end up on the train before the train crew or it's effectively impossible to find them from the platform. According to LM, the guard/conductor is at the rear of the train but on these services they are usually in one of the cabs where the two four carriage units join but how you'd find them while the train is in motion, I'm not quite sure.



On the LM 350s I use to get home, there is a passcom by the wheelchair spaces that's fairly accessible. At least I think it's passcom. As a layperson it's not entirely clear if it is or if it's a call to aid.

 

[ComUtoR]

On the service I use I often end up on the train before the train crew or it's effectively impossible to find them from the platform. According to LM, the guard/conductor is at the rear of the train but on these services they are usually in one of the cabs where the two four carriage units join but how you'd find them while the train is in motion, I'm not quite sure.

I understand the issues. I don't think there is a definitive solution. Our assistance is usually effective but I do find that when it is organised by the TOC then the Driver is usually left out the loop so on the ground it can go wrong. I do find that the platform staff on our TOC will almost always tell the Driver where the passenger is alighting.

At least I think it's passcom. As a layperson it's not entirely clear if it is or if it's a call to aid.

Train design is terrible. I might send an email to various people about better signage. Call to aid is relatively new for us. Cheers for pointing that out.

 

[OneOffDave]

Train design is terrible. I might send an email to various people about better signage. Call to aid is relatively new for us. Cheers for pointing that out.

I'll grab a photo of it tonight which might help

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll grab a photo of it tonight which might help

ISTR it is a passcom, I don't think the LM 350s have separate call for aid buttons.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'll grab a photo of it tonight which might help

No need. I walk past one most days

 

[najaB]

Being unable to alight is not an emergency.

Say, for example, you are on the 1630 EUS-GLA and your assistance doesn't show up at Preston. It might not be an emergency to you, but I wouldn't blame someone for pulling the pascom in preference to ending up in Glasgow.

 

[Clip]

Say, for example, you are on the 1630 EUS-GLA and your assistance doesn't show up at Preston. It might not be an emergency to you, but I wouldn't blame someone for pulling the pascom in preference to ending up in Glasgow.

Pendos have a call to aid button though by the space dont they? Im pretty sure the guard would know the pax was there and where they were getting off too.

 

[Skoodle]

On our trains we have Call for Aid buttons that don't work like a full PASSCOM, however do platform staff put wheelchair users in this area? Nope!

 

[najaB]

Pendos have a call to aid button though by the space dont they? Im pretty sure the guard would know the pax was there and where they were getting off too.

I agree that should be the case, but Schmidt happens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The passcom is for EMERGENCY use. Being unable to alight is not an emergency.

I would say it is in the event of the passenger being unable to alight because of the railway's (non-)doing, particularly for a disabled person. Not, I agree, for someone who missed their stop due to their own doing, of course.

I would support a better way for passengers to communicate with someone that doesnt involve the train coming to an abrupt halt.

Surely in this case it already is at a halt at a station, and someone who comes to reset it can deal with the problem then reset it. And the delay reason (assisting a disabled person) is a non-penalised one, isn't it?

I'm afraid I still think this is (absent a call for aid button) a perfect use of the passcom.

 

[TUC]

If the person has needed assistance to get onto the train, shouldn't that member of staff have informed the on-train staff that the passenger is there, mainly as part of passing on the assistance responsibilities, but also as a matter of practicality for the member of station staff so that the train doesn't depart whilst they're on it and assisting the passenger to their seat?

 

[najaB]

If the person has needed assistance to get onto the train, shouldn't that member of staff have informed the on-train staff that the passenger is there, mainly as part of passing on the assistance responsibilities, but also as a matter of practicality for the member of station staff so that the train doesn't depart whilst they're on it and assisting the passenger to their seat?

En-route staff change?

 

[ComUtoR]

It might not be an emergency to you, but I wouldn't blame someone for pulling the pascom in preference to ending up in Glasgow.

I would say it is in the event of the passenger being unable to alight because of the railway's (non-)doing, particularly for a disabled person. Not, I agree, for someone who missed their stop due to their own doing, of course.

Over carrying is not in any way an EMERGENCY. Inconvenient but not an emergency. Whilst I accept it may be more stressful for a disabled person it is not a risk to the passenger neither does it present any specific danger.

Should we make an allowance for disabled passengers ? If any overcarry is bad for the passenger then being able bodied doesn't exclude the use of the passcom. What has happened and is happening is that there disabled space is having call to aid fitted. So we are making allowances and the railway is moving forward; finally.

My issues are not to do with the delay or its attribution. I frankly couldn't care less about the financial impact. The passcom is there for EMERGENCY use. Being stopped or in motion doesnt change much and there is a specific rule for passcoms whilst departing a platform.

Again I come back to how the railways is so far behind with everything and that passengers and those that use the railway can often be their own worse enemy. What is needed is a more robust procedure for assisted travel, better staff training and widespread introduction of the call to aid. Without making it about DOO. Additional staff on the train has a huge benefit to those requiring assistance of any sort. What we need is for the passengers to be pushing the TOC's to do better and to ensure incidents like this doesn't happen. Having a "pull the passcom" approach doesn't help in the long term. Please don't accept anything less. Pulling the passcom as become too acceptable. It has allowed the TOC's to rest on their laurels rather than pull their fingers out and implement change.

What I want is the best for the passenger. Don't worry about it, just pull the passcom isn't the right approach.

From a staff perspective I have had more passcoms than I can count and most of them have resulted in cancellations. Is it fair for one passenger overcarrying to pull a passcom and then the service be cancelled, diverted, or some stations en route missed ?

What about a side that is difficult to accept. Drivers get so many passcoms for insignificant reasons that when they get one their first thought is that some scroat has pulled it rather than stop the train and deal with an emergency. That is hard to admit but it is an attitude often found in the crew room.

FYI my last passcom was about 5 weeks ago. Passenger missed their stop. Return trip cancelled due to lost time.

 

[TUC]

En-route staff change?

So shouldn't the fact that there is a passenger with booked assistance on the train be a key piece of handover information?