Fantasy Open-Access

[generalvegitable]

Dundee does have its own airport, as does Leeds. I dare say an intermediate stop on this would be York!

fair enough, It could miss out York instead

Heathrow-Birmingham Intl-Manchester Piccadilly-Leeds-Newcastle-Edinburgh may be your best bet - New St is a massive time penalty, as is manchester Airport.

hang on Manchester airport was your idea but You're right that probably is my best bet

 

[Blindtraveler]

You'd get punters for dundee easily as although it has a small airport it doesnt get many flights meaning passengers look to edinburgh glasgow or aberdeen. Furthermore its London service is to city, not the easiest if wishing Heathrow for an international connection. Thanks to flybe, birmingham is very wel served domesticly so I'd scrap it. For Brum Heathrow, National Express's coaches are doing this directly and quickly almost 24-7 so wil take a bit of beating. Same for newcastle and leeds bradford, both well served by Scottish air services and fast trains from london which anyone wanting to get home quick enough would use. Also due to ECML paths I wouldnt use it, esp with a bi-mode tilting train. Your market for this is from Scotland and Manchester but particularly Scotland where getting to heathrow can be a big add on to the cost, even if booked at the same time as an onward legg and from some parts of the country, its quite a way to an airport in the first place. I'd suggest:

Dyce, (for aberdeen airport), aberdeen, Dundee, Inverkeithing (for connections with existing Edinburgh airport bus link and local bus and rail services in Fife), Haymarket (platform 0, a bay platform), reverse out to Carstairs. There are wires down to Carstairs but not at your haymarket platform so change traction there and also uplift passengers from a feeder mini coach service from Glasgow, East Kilbride, Hamilton and Motherwell who dont wish to fly to Heathrow or use TPE to Manchester.
.
Then on to Carlisle, for existing rail and road connections incl from Scottish borders, Dumfries and galloway and Cumbria, preston, man airport, timing arival to connect with trains from as many places as possible, then nonstop to Heathrow although you could stop at crewe.

 

[alexf380]

I'd reopen the Waverley line between Edinburgh and Carlisle.

 

[OxtedL]

What would be good is some way to get from Oxted to Tunbridge Wells... Without changing two/three times/ walking for half a mile. How much would it cost to open the Crowhurst Spur again? Maybe get some chunnel freight as well?

You did say fantasy...

 

[SWTCommuter]

How about a direct south coast to north east service?

Here's a beginner's attempt at a route and timing:

Southampton Central 05:10
Southampton Parkway 05:17
Winchester 05:26
Basingstoke 05:41
Reading 05:59
Acton East Junction 06:29
Gospel Oak (pass) 06:54
Harringay Junction 07:04
York 08:54
Darlington 09:25
Durham 09:42
Newcastle 09:58

Return from Newcastle around 1600, arriving Southampton about 21.00.

Perhaps use Adelante units so they could join and split at Reading and Doncaster for services to and from Portsmouth and Leeds.

 

[tbtc]

How about a direct south coast to north east service?

Here's a beginner's attempt at a route and timing:

Southampton Central 05:10
Southampton Parkway 05:17
Winchester 05:26
Basingstoke 05:41
Reading 05:59

York 08:54
Darlington 09:25
Durham 09:42
Newcastle 09:58

There is a bi-hourly train from Southampton/Basingstoke to York/Newcastle though (hourly from Reading). Whilst running via the outskirts of London would be faster (paths permitting over Welwyn etc) I can't see a need, sorry.

 

[Masbroughlad]

There is a bi-hourly train from Southampton/Basingstoke to York/Newcastle though (hourly from Reading). Whilst running via the outskirts of London would be faster (paths permitting over Welwyn etc) I can't see a need, sorry.

:roll: It is FANTASY open access.

 

[Ivo]

:roll: It is FANTASY open access.

It was supposed to involve realistic proposals, but in all fairness this is at least a realistic proposal. It would make it easier for long-distance travel between Hampshire and the North-East, and would entice a few newcomers to the line. But it would comprehensive fail the abstraction test, and this is what tbtc is getting at. Still, any alternatives to Voyagers will be readily considered!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Newcastle - 08:00
Sunderland - 08:18
Hartlepool - 08:35
Stockton - 08:50
Northallerton - 09:10
Thirsk - 09:20
York - 09:45
Leeds - 10:10
Bradford Interchange (turn) - 10:25
Halifax - 10:37
Blackburn - 11:07
Preston - 11:20
Blackpool North - 11:45

It would be called 'The Northern Star', operating once every two hours - running operating Voyagers or Class 222s. Just a fantasy, not realistic idea.

 

[Ivo]

That, I like

Has this thread been well and truly revived then? I might have to make one again...

 

[Blindtraveler]

Somebody said that it would be good to have a proposal that didnt involve London, wel nobody commented on my post very early in the thread Re a dumfries to Edinburgh link via carlisle.

Another one I'd had for a once daily service, mon to Sat was:

6 car class 170s doing:
inverness,
all stops to Aberdeen, then
dundee,
Perth
Stirling
cumbernauld
Motherwell
Lockerbie
Carlisle

although somewhat slower, it would restore Aberdeen/dundee's direct connection to the northwest and give inverness one for the first time in many years.

Connections from fife would be available at perth or dundee with intermediate station passengers between abd and dee joining at dee. It would also take pressure off VT/TPE by giving foalk from north of Edb and Glasgow a choice. Only problem is paths on inv to abd. Are there any, due to the single track? And is there space on wcml?

The service would be 3 coaches to aberdeen then 6 cars from there. The limmited stop nature of the service between aberdeen and stirling would appeal to local travelers and the option of going to lanarkshire without changing or going into glasgow would be popular too!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Another one starting pretty local for me;

Middlesbrough 06:00
Thornaby 06:05
Stockton 06:10
Hartlepool 06:25
Sunderland 06:50
Newcastle 07:15
Berwick 08:00
Edinburgh 08:45
Perth 10:00
Inverness 12:00

Just to allow better connections. Operates once every 3 hours using Class 222/180 stock. This would allow extra peak hour trains leaving the main stations.

 

[Blindtraveler]

good shout

 

[martinsh]

How about a direct south coast to north east service?

Here's a beginner's attempt at a route and timing:

Southampton Central 05:10
Southampton Parkway 05:17
Winchester 05:26
Basingstoke 05:41
Reading 05:59
Acton East Junction 06:29
Gospel Oak (pass) 06:54
Harringay Junction 07:04
York 08:54
Darlington 09:25
Durham 09:42
Newcastle 09:58

Return from Newcastle around 1600, arriving Southampton about 21.00.

Perhaps use Adelante units so they could join and split at Reading and Doncaster for services to and from Portsmouth and Leeds.

It's a bit of an early start from Southampton isn't it ?

As others have said, this would fail the abstraction test. Possibly instead, it could do some of the following

run via Woking / Clapham Junction
or
run from Portsmouth / Havant / Guildford
or
stop at Stevenage / Peterborough / Doncaster
or
run via Sunderland / Middlesborough

 

[34002salisbury]

I would like to run 5 trains per day in each direction from Sheffield to Norwich one a 1 1/2 hourerly baisis. These Trains will call at Derby, Leicester, Petaborough, Ely and Norwich.

Will would be using ex W&S stock and each service will have a kitchen car on each train.

Formation 67+TSO+TSO+TSO+KO?+FO+FO+DVT (all coaching stock MK3)

Timings are approx (i have no idea on real times)
1st train

Sheffield 06:12
Derby 06:34 06:36
Leicester 06:54 06:58
Petaboro' 07:23 07:27
Ely 07:40 07:42
Norwich 07:58

Stock would return to Derby for servicing

Each train wold have 1 guard/ticket collector,4cooks,4 waiter/waitressess (2 1st class, 2 2nd class) and a driver

Company Name :Cutler Rail

 

[martinsh]

I would like to run 5 trains per day in each direction from Sheffield to Norwich one a 1 1/2 hourerly baisis. These Trains will call at Derby, Leicester, Petaborough, Ely and Norwich.

Will would be using ex W&S stock and each service will have a kitchen car on each train.

Formation 67+TSO+TSO+TSO+KO?+FO+FO+DVT (all coaching stock MK3)

Timings are approx (i have no idea on real times)
1st train

Sheffield 06:12
Derby 06:34 06:36
Leicester 06:54 06:58
Petaboro' 07:23 07:27
Ely 07:40 07:42
Norwich 07:58

Stock would return to Derby for servicing

Each train wold have 1 guard/ticket collector,4cooks,4 waiter/waitressess (2 1st class, 2 2nd class) and a driver

Company Name :Cutler Rail

Should be some lively running on this one - Ely to Norwich 44 miles in 16 mins !!!

 

[34002salisbury]

yes, i've erm, coverted the 67s to run at 200PH!

 

[Class172]

yes, i've erm, coverted the 67s to run at 200PH!

I'd like to see a pimped up pacer for 125mph runs. At that speed the seats would be bouncing through the roof!

Actually make that a PPM (class 139)

 

[me123]

Somebody said that it would be good to have a proposal that didnt involve London, wel nobody commented on my post very early in the thread Re a dumfries to Edinburgh link via carlisle.

Another one I'd had for a once daily service, mon to Sat was:

6 car class 170s doing:
inverness,
all stops to Aberdeen, then
dundee,
Perth
Stirling
cumbernauld
Motherwell
Lockerbie
Carlisle

although somewhat slower, it would restore Aberdeen/dundee's direct connection to the northwest and give inverness one for the first time in many years.

Connections from fife would be available at perth or dundee with intermediate station passengers between abd and dee joining at dee. It would also take pressure off VT/TPE by giving foalk from north of Edb and Glasgow a choice. Only problem is paths on inv to abd. Are there any, due to the single track? And is there space on wcml?

The service would be 3 coaches to aberdeen then 6 cars from there. The limmited stop nature of the service between aberdeen and stirling would appeal to local travelers and the option of going to lanarkshire without changing or going into glasgow would be popular too!

Nice idea, but I'd suggest the following slight alteration:

Carlisle
Lockerbie
Motherwell
Coatbridge Central (because it's a growing commuter town, and this will provide great access to Stirling)
Cumbernauld
Stirling
Dunblane (to provide a frequent direct link to Perth and beyond that Scotrail have failed to provide)
(Gleneagles)
Perth

Most trains then continue to:
Dundee
Arborath
Montrose
Stonehaven
Aberdeen

Some continue to Inverness, calling at all stations Perth-Inverness

This would provide a faster link to Inverness

Even if this weren't frequent, a frequent Carlisle-Stirling service (every hour) would be a great idea for linking up the towns in Central Scotland to the mainlines at Stirling and Carlisle.

****

I'm sure this one would have come up before, but I'd like to see Glasgow-Leeds as follows:
Glasgow
Motherwell
Lockerbie
Carlisle
Appleby
Settle
Skipton
Keighley
Shipley
Leeds

Although the market may well be taken by the ECML service starting in May, a direct link between the two cities is desperately needed. You'll notice that the train runs fast through the S&C, because most of the stations through there simply don't have high patronage and therefore significant journey time improvements could be achieved by omitting these calls.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Another one starting pretty local for me;

Middlesbrough 06:00
Thornaby 06:05
Stockton 06:10
Hartlepool 06:25
Sunderland 06:50
Newcastle 07:15
Berwick 08:00
Edinburgh 08:45
Perth 10:00
Inverness 12:00
Wick/Thurso 13:00

Just to connect to numerous ferry links, and to provide links which are currently lacking or low in numbers.

I think those journey times are a work of fantasy! 1 hour from Inverness-Wick?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I think those journey times are a work of fantasy! 1 hour from Inverness-Wick?

That's the one I was unsure about, how long on average would it take?

 

[ainsworth74]

That's the one I was unsure about, how long on average would it take?

More like slightly over 4 hours

 

[Class172]

I had an idea for a service between Birmingham Swindon/Brighton called 'Severn & Thames,' using turbostars for off-peak services with first class and maybe catering; and either HST's, 180's or mk3 loco hauled for busier services, again with catering. This is the very approximate timetable - depends on new bordesley chords being built: (hourly service peak hours, once every 2h off-peak). I don't know the actuall times between each station.

Outgoing journey/Return Journey
Birmingham Moor St. - d0600;1430
Kings Norton - 0607;1418 (peak hours only)
Bromsgrove - 0617;1318
Droitwich Spa - 0626;1309
Worcester Shrub Hill - a0635 d0638;a1257 d1200
Cheltenham - 0700;1235
Gloucester - a0713 d0715;a1220 d1222 (limited service to avoid competition with XC and FGW)
Stroud - 0734;1201
Swindon - a0755 d0758;a1137 d1140
Didcot Parkway - 0820;1115(limited service)
Reading - a0833 d0835;a1100 d1102
Guildford - 0855;1040
Redhill - 0910;1025(limited service)
Gatwick Airport - 09201015
Brighton - a0940; d0955

Fast Services will be 20mins quicker than semi-fast services. Trains will generally stand at Moor St. and Brighton for 30mins (for cleaning) and 15mins respectively. I am open to suggestions

Departures from Termini as follows:
Birmingham Moor Street/Brighton
06:00 (semi-fast) 09:55
07:00 (fast) 10:55
08:00 (semi-fast) 11:55
09:00 (fast) 12:55
11:00 (semi-fast) 14:55
13:00 (semi-fast) 16:55
14:00 (fast) 17:55
15:00 (semi-fast) 18:55
17:00 (semi-fast) 20:55
18:00 (fast) 21:55
19:00 (fast) 22:55

This is only a plan for Birmingham - Brighton services. Some of the services may terminate at Swindon (allows 5mins at platform). Any suggestions will do nicely

Dan

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

More like slightly over 4 hours

From Inverness to Wick? :cry:

 

[Blindtraveler]

From Inverness to Wick? :cry:

I'm bashing the far north to Thurso on Thursday, (taking a very long route from Edinburgh to Orkney especially to do it) so wil time it end to end, make a point of asking staff the travel time on wic run and let ya know!

 

[martinsh]

I had an idea for a service between Birmingham Swindon/Brighton called 'Severn & Thames,' using turbostars for off-peak services with first class and maybe catering; and either HST's, 180's or mk3 loco hauled for busier services, again with catering. This is the very approximate timetable - depends on new bordesley chords being built: (hourly service peak hours, once every 2h off-peak). I don't know the actuall times between each station.

Outgoing journey/Return Journey
Birmingham Moor St. - d0600;1430
Kings Norton - 0607;1418 (peak hours only)
Bromsgrove - 0617;1318
Droitwich Spa - 0626;1309
Worcester Shrub Hill - a0635 d0638;a1257 d1200
Cheltenham - 0700;1235
Gloucester - a0713 d0715;a1220 d1222 (limited service to avoid competition with XC and FGW)
Stroud - 0734;1201
Swindon - a0755 d0758;a1137 d1140
Newbury - 0820;1115(limited service)
Reading - a0833 d0835;a1100 d1102
Guildford - 0855;1040
Redhill - 0910;1025(limited service)
Gatwick Airport - 09201015
Brighton - a0940; d0955

Fast Services will be 20mins quicker than semi-fast services. Trains will generally stand at Moor St. and Brighton for 30mins (for cleaning) and 15mins respectively. I am open to suggestions

Departures from Termini as follows:
Birmingham Moor Street/Brighton
06:00 (semi-fast) 09:55
07:00 (fast) 10:55
08:00 (semi-fast) 11:55
09:00 (fast) 12:55
11:00 (semi-fast) 14:55
13:00 (semi-fast) 16:55
14:00 (fast) 17:55
15:00 (semi-fast) 18:55
17:00 (semi-fast) 20:55
18:00 (fast) 21:55
19:00 (fast) 22:55

This is only a plan for Birmingham - Brighton services. Some of the services may terminate at Swindon (allows 5mins at platform). Any suggestions will do nicely

Dan

How are you planning to get from Swindon to Newbury ?

 

[ainsworth74]

From Inverness to Wick?

Yep most of the services are timetabled in the region of 4 hours and 20 minutes (see attached pick). Now of course because you're not stopping anywhere north of Inverness you will probably get a time saving but still it's going to be 3+ hours at least I would have thought.

 

[Class172]

How are you planning to get from Swindon to Newbury ?

Ah I meant to put Didcot, I'll just go and change it

 

[tbtc]

Nice idea, but I'd suggest the following slight alteration:

Carlisle
Lockerbie
Motherwell
Coatbridge Central (because it's a growing commuter town, and this will provide great access to Stirling)
Cumbernauld
Stirling
Dunblane (to provide a frequent direct link to Perth and beyond that Scotrail have failed to provide)
(Gleneagles)
Perth

Most trains then continue to:
Dundee
Arborath
Montrose
Stonehaven
Aberdeen

Some continue to Inverness, calling at all stations Perth-Inverness

This would provide a faster link to Inverness

Even if this weren't frequent, a frequent Carlisle-Stirling service (every hour) would be a great idea for linking up the towns in Central Scotland to the mainlines at Stirling and Carlisle

I'd agree with a Motherwell - Coatbridge - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G/ Stirling service, but it'd be a lot easier to get Virgin to stop at Motherwell than it would be to run a service from Motherwell to Carlisle to connect with them there. Why they don't stop more/all trains at Motherwell is beyond me; I'd market it as a kind of "Glasgow South Parkway", its easier to get to for much of Lanarkshire/ central belt than it is to go into Glasgow and come back out again.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Yep most of the services are timetabled in the region of 4 hours and 20 minutes (see attached pick). Now of course because you're not stopping anywhere north of Inverness you will probably get a time saving but still it's going to be 3+ hours at least I would have thought.

May just stop it at Inverness then, ha!

 

[ushawk]

As its Fantasy - i propose a "Super" Coastway service which would call as follows -

Hastings (For Tonbridge and Ashford lines),
Bexhill* (Not every service)
Eastbourne,
Lewes (For Seaford),
Falmer* (To serve new Falmer stadium on matchdays)
Brighton (For BML and slow Coastway services),
Worthing,
Barnham (For stations to Horsham and Littlehampton),
Chichester,
Havant (For Portsmouth Direct Line),
Portsmouth & S'Sea - Low Level (For Harbour and Hovercraft),
Fratton,
Fareham,
Eastleigh (Reverse and for Basingstoke, Reading and London),
Southampton Airport Pkwy,
Southampton Central (For Salisbury and slow services)
Brockenhurst (For Lymington/connections to IOW)
Bournemouth,
Poole,
Dorchester (For HOW line)
and Weymouth

Full service would run 3 times a day each way (4th journeys from Weymouth and Hastings terminate at Brighton). Each journey ran by 1x 5-car 444. Would run to/from Ashford but it would require a loco and wouldnt be cost-effective for 3 journeys a say. Southern will probably object as it runs along both their Coastway routes and it would cross Brighton, SWT would object as their services run from Eastleigh to Weymouth and FGW may object. May also be problems as Southampton gets congested and the service would stop all services in and out of Brighton whilst it crosses to get to or from Platform 3/4 there.