Far-right protests

[Busaholic]

Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Interesting how the police could contain all dissent during the coronation but let this happen... Priorities much?

Was there organised and mobile violent protest with people looting and throwing stuff then, or just some bores with placards?

If they were serious about combating such people they'd work with the army and send in the tanks...

To do what? Remember who the fascists are here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2024 ==

Our democracy is too weak, it needs strengthening. The first task of a democratic state is to have a monopoly on the use of violent force, as well as to represent the people in a peaceful manner. This must be strengthened. Of course that would require changing the law (I assume it would) but I for one would be happy to see it happen.

Straight out of the far right playbook. Sounds like something Jonny Skinhead is saying about the Leeds riots. "The face eating leopards would not dare eat my face" comes to mind.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Did you condemn the violence in Leeds a couple of weeks ago

Yes. Totally. I've not seen anyone who hasn't?

when the police simply ran away?

Retreating when outnumbered whilst capturing criminal behaviour on camera and then giving those responsible a knock on the door in the early morning is a well known and valid policing tactic. Often used for football violence as it happens, which is somewhat funny given the crossover between football hooligans and the current violence.

But, the underlying cause is anger and frustration at their views being consistently ignored or silenced.

Well yes racist views (like assuming someone is a muslim and an illegal immigrant because he wasnt white, or attacking someone because they are black, or attacking a car just because there was someone who wasnt white in it, or attacking mosques for no reason at all) absolutely should be ignored and silenced.

What’s needed on all sides is to calm down and to actually listen and try to understand each others position. We’ve completely lost the ability to debate and respectfully disagree in this country.

There's only one side who are currently violently throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The mainstream media are not helping imo

 

[alex397]

It’s as if this video was created by AI, asking it to ‘show us a protest with every stereotypical British Stella-drinking tracksuit-wearing dumb racist thug’. Disgusting people.

 

[Busaholic]

It’s as if this video was created by AI, asking it to ‘show us a protest with every stereotypical British Stella-drinking tracksuit-wearing dumb racist thug’. Disgusting people.

''Take back our country''. It's been a phrase resonating across the YouTube video accounts of far-right individuals and groups as well as certain media outlets in such a way it appears to be a co-ordinated effort that was waiting for a signal to start.

I don't think the catalyst was the horrible tragedy in Southport last Monday as such, in fact the evil and obnoxious people at the helm of the various groupings may come to regret choosing those events to pin their vile ideology to: I certainly hope so. Instead, I'd cite the riots in Dublin last November, reprised in Coolok, Dublin in mid July, the stabbing of the uniformed soldier in Gillingham, Kent, around the same time and even the infamous video of the armed cop kicking that guy in the head at Manchester Airport. Reform MPs Anderson and Farage both chose to comment and insinuate then, before the latter chose the Southport story to peddle as suggested by his Russian 'influencers.'

Nor do I think the presence of summertime and sultry evenings is of particular relevance, other than adding more morons to the mix and so more towns and cities to trash. The 30th of July 2024 might well be seen later on as the true moment the extreme right forced their unwanted attentions on the rest of us trying to lead peaceable lives, with consequences unknown. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but events in many European countries suggest the poison is ready to be administered over a wide area.

 

[GusB]

It’s as if this video was created by AI, asking it to ‘show us a protest with every stereotypical British Stella-drinking tracksuit-wearing dumb racist thug’. Disgusting people.

If only it was just created by AI... If nothing else it gives police a useful source of intelligence.

I don't always agree with the way that the police act in this country, but there is a remarkable amount of restraint going on here. There are some seriously worried-looking coppers there and they're not all wearing riot gear.

 

[WestCoast]

I will always be in favour of the right to protest and free speech even if what is being said is hateful bile but when that crosses over into physically attacking the police, assaulting innocent members of the public and rioting/looting then it must be shut down and punished. That goes for any kind of protest from any sort of group. Whatever ”legitimate concerns“ these “protestors“ have doesn’t in any way justify criminal activity and I am sure the real “silent majority“ feel the same way.

 

[GusB]

Having watched the majority of that video, it turned out that there were actually some police in riot gear but, under the circumstances, I don't blame them for that!

My impression was that it was a very tense situation that could have kicked off at any moment. There appeared to be a handful of arrests but, by and large, the "event" was allowed to progress without too much fuss. The police seemed to be heavily outnumbered and trying to appease different groups, so it probably wouldn't have been a good look if they'd been too heavy-handed.

Those individuals who are whipping up hatred need to be identified and properly dealt with. We don't need this bigotry.

 

[HullRailMan]

and there we have it - talking points straight off social media. Funny you don't seem able to condemn the violence. See how that kind of statement works?


There is always a but, always an excuse.


There is only one side out on the streets causing bother. Stop trying to excuse criminality. What is needed is decent people to say this isn't on and we wont have it.


always someone else to blame eh?

Ah, I didn’t see a thread about the Leeds riots but am happy to read it if you point it out. I’m also not making excuses, but seeking to understand why this is happening. You can’t solve a problem without knowing what is causing it.

Is there only one side causing trouble? I see the Muslim Defence League was out in force in Blackburn yesterday, though I’ve no idea what the result of that was. I note politicians across the board have been to say issues in their area haven’t been caused by locals, but then locals have been arrested so it’s possibly too early to say.

I note this thread started by castigating Farage (the go to bogeyman) and one poster referring to Reform UK (who got 4.1 million votes last month) as “disgusting”. Not sure this helps.

I witnessed protest and violence in Hull myself yesterday and was keen to view events through my own eyes. I saw a protest attended by several hundred people and a smaller country protest. Both were vocal with strongly held opposing views, but they were peaceful. When that attended a much smaller group broke away and went to a hotel which houses migrants and engaged in a violent protest, which was unacceptable. Some people broke away from this and engaged in appalling violence with people and vehicles attacked. Later, looting took place with a number of shops broken into and raided and several fires broke out. This was widely shown online (including livestreams!) and clearly showed local youths (you could pick up the accents) aged no more than 20 were mostly involved.

Now, to be clear, I do not support the violence. I’ve never seen behaviour like that in my city before. It doesn’t achieve anything and certainly doesn’t take forward any cause. I hope everyone involved be they local or otherwise, old or young, is held accountable.

The question is how does this end, and I go back to politicians. I don’t think the government gets that concerns need addressing, or at least acknowledging. There are complex social and economic issues at play here and yes, people are exploiting those plus the emotion of the dreadful events in Southport last week.

The polarisation in the UK is getting worse, as it is in many western countries, and we don’t want to end up as bad as the US. This involves everyone stepping out of their echo chambers and respectfully listening to others. For example, there is a perception that the police treat different commuters in a different way. That may or not be real, and your viewpoint may alter your perception, but ignoring the concerns won’t help.

 

[nw1]

rying to make excuses for their? I suspect not.The irony that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, one of the main far-right figures trying to stoke fears about Muslims/foreigners, has an Irish passport (as discovered by Canadian police) and has now fled abroad to evade arrest on contempt of court.

Yet more evidence that Yaxley-Lennon is an absolute fraud. The immigrant-hating British nationalist.... erm.... emigrating to another country to escape justice. But I presume he could be extradited?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

Yes this is akin to the disruptive climate protestors whose tactics have been counterproductive. However this latest incident has shown the hypocrisy of some of the authoritarian half of the political compass (certain the vocal ones): when protestors/thugs act on a cause they don't like, they demand tough sentencing and laws to stop them. But when the protestors/thugs acting on behalf of causes they like are doing comparable, if not more severe damage, they try and sympathise with them and talk about the causes before demanding punishment for those being disruptive. True law and order supporters would condemn law breaking of this sort irrespective of who it is.

One point also that needs to be considered is that the far-right thugs have, objectively, committed far worse acts than say the Just Stop Oil protestors who sat on gantries on the M25. The latter did not violently attack mosques or the police.

Thus, objectively, these thugs should be given significantly harsher sentences than 5 years in prison.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

I note this thread started by castigating Farage (the go to bogeyman) and one poster referring to Reform UK (who got 4.1 million votes last month) as “disgusting”. Not sure this helps.

I don't see why we should let people like Farage off the hook. He seemed to be insinuating that the government and/or the police were hiding the "truth" from us, whatever that means. This sounds very like promoting far-right conspiracy theories.

And then Farage saying "it's nothing compared to what will happen in the next few weeks". What is that supposed to mean? Again it almost sounds - to me personally - like he is revelling in the violence, wanting it to continue.

In my view, no other person has done more to spread hate and intolerance in the past 15 years than Farage. Witness, for one, his blatantly xenophobic comments directed at Romanians - and that is by no means the only example.

And as for 4.1 million votes for Reform, well that illustrates the problem and the danger of the far-right. (If the RN in France are labelled far-right, why not Reform?)
They are increasingly convincing people that their political philosophy is acceptable.

The question is how does this end, and I go back to politicians. I don’t think the government gets that concerns need addressing, or at least acknowledging. There are complex social and economic isues at play here and yes, people are exploiting those plus the emotion of the dreadful events in Southport last week.

In my view it is that hard-right views have been increasingly tolerated and even encouraged, including by a few Tories. Braverman is a good example IMV, with her dehumanising comments aimed at migrants and even people with "woke" views in general. People think it's increasingly acceptable to outwardly show intense hate directed at asylum-seekers. This has to stop.

The PM hasn’t helped by simply dismissing everyone that holds that position as ‘far right’; indeed, his tone deaf response has only served to feed the anger. The usual politicians and the media continue to pump out platitudes and lies without actually doing anything meaningful to address the situation. I’m not sure that a dismissive tone from a government that 80% of the electorate didn’t vote for helps either.

No, he has condemed these ridiculous rioters as far-right.

If say, Just Stop Oil people had been running around this past week engaging in violent fights with the police and burning down shops, would you be similarly condemning the PM if he, rightly, called them far-left extremists? I suspect not!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

The question is how does this end, and I go back to politicians. I don’t think the government gets that concerns need addressing, or at least acknowledging. There are complex social and economic issues at play here and yes, people are exploiting those plus the emotion of the dreadful events in Southport last week.

There are indeed concerns, and they are primarily: a) the normalisation of hard-right or far-right views, and, perhaps even more importantly, b) the fact that people are willing to believe any sort of rubbish that is spread on social media. If the fake name had not been spread earlier in the week, none of this would have happened.

Of these, a) is relatively easy to tackle if the government has the will, but b) is a tougher one. I'm really not sure how you solve the issue of misinformation online, other than by education.

 

[bahnause]

What is the problem?

The problem is that a racist and violence-glorifying mob has allowed itself to be convinced without resistance by grubby opportunists riding on coattails of history, that everyone but themselves is the problem. But that doesn't make them any less guilty.

This includes the media, which now spreads the lies spread on social media almost unchecked and unfiltered.

In the meantime, they have been joined by the usual relativists, who join in, gaslighting and pointing fingers at "the left", "the liberals", "the muslims" or whatever group their small pitiful minds just happen to dislike, pushing their flimsy arguments that the pack are just "concerned citizens". They are pointing fingers at the groups that are not the problem, but are part of the problem themselfes.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Bit late to this thread but fwiw here's my input.

This is a complicated situation with many strands to it but principally,

1) There has been too much immigration into the country.

2) A % of that immigration has been uncontrolled, illegal, undocumented, call it what you will.

3) It is perceived that the immigrants are treated more favourably than the indigenous population.

4) There is a view that the police have a 2 tier policy.

Starmer then chucked petrol on the fire when he immediately termed people as " far right " and compared concerned citizens to football hooligans!!

It is not " far right " to have genuine concerns about points 1 to 4.

That being said sm whipped up a storm exacerbated by the Leeds and Manchester Airport incident and here we are.

It's not very clever burning down police stations or attacking the very people you were supporting after the airport fracas, I hope those responsible are put before the court and dealt with.

However the underlying causes will still be there, yes it will probably die down when the football season starts but it will still be there festering until next time.

 

[bahnause]

However the underlying causes will still be there, yes it will probably die down when the football season starts but it will still be there festering until next time.

There was an election about 4 weeks ago. The people have decided what they want and the politics they want to have in the future. Your "concerns" have been heard and dismissed by a majority. End of.

 

[Andyh82]

It seems the riots spread to Liverpool last night and young local lads set fire to a library

Isn’t Liverpool one of the most left wing places in the country, don’t they always return Labour MPs with massive majorities?

This probably proves that left and right is too simple and you can be left wing on some issues and right wing on others?

 

[yorkie]

It seems the riots spread to Liverpool last night and young local lads set fire to a library

Isn’t Liverpool one of the most left wing places in the country, don’t they always return Labour MPs with massive majorities?

These far-right idiots are minority; they are totally unrepresentative of the majority.

This probably proves that left and right is too simple and you can be left wing on some issues and right wing on others?

However you are right that terms "left and right" are simplistic; for a start you have to define if you are talking about "social" or "economic" issues, and secondly authoritarianism vs libertarianism is arguably an entirely different axis. But this is arguably a whole different topic, and there are numerous websites dedicated to discussing such matters.

 

[najaB]

It seems the riots spread to Liverpool last night and young local lads set fire to a library

Isn’t Liverpool one of the most left wing places in the country, don’t they always return Labour MPs with massive majorities?

And if the majority of the population of Liverpool was setting fire to libraries you might have a point. As it is, it only takes one.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

There was an election about 4 weeks ago. The people have decided what they want and the politics they want to have in the future. Your "concerns" have been heard and dismissed by a majority. End of.

And how's that working out ?

Talk about buyers regret !!!

Plus I'd imagine that a large % of the protesters voted Labour anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

The other issue that inflames the situation is the left wing fascist counter protests.

That just acts as fuel for the fire and turns a difficult situation for the police into a riot.

 

[najaB]

Plus I'd imagine that a large % of the protesters voted Labour anyway.

The intersection between Labour voters and English nationalists is vanishingly small.

 

[nw1]

2) A % of that immigration has been uncontrolled, illegal, undocumented, call it what you will.

Perhaps. But in no way, shape or form an excuse. The riots are down to misinformation spread about the Southport killer due to some people's apparent fanatical hatred of Muslims and/or asylum seekers. And the killer was neither an immigrant nor a Muslim in any case.

3) It is perceived that the immigrants are treated more favourably than the indigenous population.

Perceived by whom?

Plus I'd imagine that a large % of the protesters voted Labour anyway.

Highly unlikely, I'd say either Reform or not at all.

 

[507021]

Exactly. If you have a concern about it, go speak with your MP, start a petition, get a protest permit and stage a demonstration. Throwing bricks through windows, setting fire to cars and looting shops will do absolutely nothing to change immigration policy and all that people will see is the needless violence.

Which is exactly what I did about eighteen months ago. It was far more constructive than the atrocious scenes we've seen over the past several days.

The racist, bigoted scum who have exploited this unimaginable tragedy in Southport and twisted it into an excuse to riot and cause chaos are beneath contempt. Hope the book gets thrown at all of them hard and are made examples of. Sadly, such opportunistic vermin will always be on the lookout for the perfect excuse to whip their fellow travellers up into a frenzy if they smell an opportunity to further their repulsive movement; social media makes this all too easy.

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who really matter here are the victims, their familes, friends and the wider community in Southport at the center of all this. Can't even begin to imagine what they're going through, even before their living nightmare was so grotesquely exploited.

This is absolutely spot on. Completely agree.

 

[Thirteen]

I find it fascinating that the riots has been limited to mostly a few places in the North with the exception of Belfast and I think Bristol. London for example doesn't seem to have had any major incidents in comparison

 

[brad465]

I find it fascinating that the riots has been limited to mostly a few places in the North with the exception of Belfast and I think Bristol. London for example doesn't seem to have had any major incidents in comparison

There was one in Whitehall but the police were very easily able to contain it and it saw 100 or so arrests, so I suspect further riots were deterred by this action.

 

[RT4038]

There was an election about 4 weeks ago. The people have decided what they want and the politics they want to have in the future. Your "concerns" have been heard and dismissed by a majority. End of.

There was a referendum in 2016 about Brexit and the people decided what they wanted. This hasn't stopped those on the losing side from expressing their concerns and views since then. Neither should it, because it is unlikely that anyone in either case voted for an entire package, and certainly not 'the politics they want to have in the future'. The majority should not be a tyranny or a licence to ignore the views, concerns of the minority.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Those individuals who are whipping up hatred need to be identified and properly dealt with

Five of them would probably claim parliamentary privilege

1) There has been too much immigration into the country.

2) A very small % of that immigration has been uncontrolled, illegal, undocumented, call it what you will.

Roughly 7%

3) It is perceived that the immigrants are treated more favourably than the indigenous population.

4) There is a view that the police have a 2 tier policy

“Perceived” and “view” are doing a lot of heavy lifting here

It’s noticeable that Farage hasn’t tweeted for two days.

 

[Gloster]

There was a referendum in 2016 about Brexit and the people decided what they wanted. This hasn't stopped those on the losing side from expressing their concerns and views since then. Neither should it, because it is unlikely that anyone in either case voted for an entire package, and certainly not 'the politics they want to have in the future'. The majority should not be a tyranny or a licence to ignore the views, concerns of the minority.

Yes, but those of us who opposed and still disagree with Brexit do not go around throwing bricks at police officers, setting fire to buildings or threatening Brexiteers. Expressing your opinion in a civilised manner is fine: using violence and threats of violence randomly, even against those who are merely trying to keep order, isn’t.

 

[AM9]

There was a referendum in 2016 about Brexit and the people decided what they wanted. This hasn't stopped those on the losing side from expressing their concerns and views since then. Neither should it, because it is unlikely that anyone in either case voted for an entire package, and certainly not 'the politics they want to have in the future'. The majority should not be a tyranny or a licence to ignore the views, concerns of the minority.

That was 8 years ago, - nearly two terms of government ago and over 100 times the 4 weeks that @bahnause was referring to.

 

[Thebaz]

I find it fascinating that the riots has been limited to mostly a few places in the North with the exception of Belfast and I think Bristol. London for example doesn't seem to have had any major incidents in comparison

There was a kind-of flash mob outside Downing Street was there not, the day after that awful event in Southport? People were even arrested.

 

[jon0844]

My god, they've been bringing their kids to watch an attempt to burn down a hotel full of people. One was riding on his dads shoulders FFS.

That'll give the children something to talk about to the class in September, if their school is still standing.

 

[SuspectUsual]

My god, they've been bringing their kids to watch an attempt to burn down a hotel full of people. One was riding on his dads shoulders FFS.

That'll give the children something to talk about to the class in September, if their school is still standing.

And I wonder what happens in the playground if there are kids in his class with brown skin