FGW at Paddington still getting evening Off Peak validity spectacularly wrong.

[najaB]

I presume all the scanners, be they in ticket barriers or handhelds, are connected to the internet in order to perform validity checks on the information presented?

I doubt that even one in a hundred has a live connection.

 

[miami]

Hi Kevin, I've often wondered what information is actually stored on tickets/smartcards and how their validity is checked.

I presume all the scanners, be they in ticket barriers or handhelds, are connected to the internet in order to perform validity checks on the information presented?

If they were there would be plenty of bits to encode a unique number that could be linked to a database. There's about 55 bits of data between the TFL and the ATOC fields, that's trillions of potential ticket numbers.

 

[Dent]

I think throwaway paper smartcards seem the logical next step, which could solve most ticketing problems and allow the extra benefits I mentioned.

That is a rather bold claim.

 

[jon0844]

That is a rather bold claim.

A fair one though, no? You could out loads of info on - possibly even the photo of the ticket owner in the case of a discounted ticket.

Have you seen how much info is stored on a passport? Of course, it takes a bit too long to store that much info on a train ticket!

 

[yorkie]

That sort of suggestion really needs to go in a new thread. This is drifting away from the matter at hand. I'm wondering if maybe this thread should be left now until there are any further developments.

 

[kevinwaltets]

Well it's twenty years since I was involved developing the systems that were used in bus and rail applications.

Internet was virtually non existent then and each validator had to be programmed individually to validate the ticket. The data that could be encoded was and probably still is very limited for the reasons I have mentioned.

Data fields would include
Valid from valid to. Adult child etc ticket type. Zone etc and checksum. There was very limited room on the mag stripe. If you sprinkle iron filings onto a bank card you will see two or more line of encoding. But with tickets they were always one line at low density.

I am sure that someone in the industry today can provide more up to date information.

Reading hand swiped cards was very hit and miss.

I also developed the low level software for the portable machines PETM that the conductors used on the busses. They replaced the
Set-Rite mechanical machines that the conductors used. But the hardware was only just up to the job and tickets would print at different lengths according to the charge in the battery. I eventually managed to get the hand mag swipe reading accurate over a range of swipe speeds and battery conditions.

Kevin

 

[Camden]

Thanks Kevin, that's interesting.

 

[Gagravarr]

Friend of mine tried to board the 18:22 from Paddington today holding a off-peak single from Peckham Rye to Oxford (http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PMR&dest=OXF&ldn=1&tkt=CDS), which is a GWR-set fare, but with no evening peak restrictions on it (it's Restriction Code: W1). Ticket was rejected at the barrier, was told it wasn't valid, was only allowed through when a seat reservation was shown. Currently on the train a bit worried as the train manager has made multiple announcements that anyone holding an off-peak ticket to a station before Worcester will be excessed as their tickets aren't valid.

We've got a copy of the W1 restrictions to hand, and a seat reservation, so should be fine, but I can see most people with my friend's ticket getting off in the face of all these emphatic announcements. (I have a different ticket so unaffected this time)

 

[bnm]

Gagravarr. I trust your friend wasn't excessed.

Get your friend to complain in the first instance to GWR Customer Services. Ask them why he was initially denied travel with staff only relenting when a seat reservation was shown. Ask what would happen if there was no seat reservation. Also ask about the the incorrect on board announcements.

Ask what measures will be put in place to prevent a re-occurrence.

Do please come back here when you have had that initial response. I have a conduit to take things further if the reply is unsatisfactory.

And a heads up Paddington Gateline. I'm coming through Monday evening with an Off Peak ticket. Don't do anything silly now...

 

[Agent_c]

On the Gate Line, This Monday evening
The halls are filled with the sounds of life
Someone's ticket reads "Off Peak" here...
Could that someone perhaps perchance be Mac The Knife?

 

[SickyNicky]

And a heads up Paddington Gateline. I'm coming through Monday evening with an Off Peak ticket. Don't do anything silly now...

Hmm. That might be worth a special trip to PAD for some of use who are frustrated about this, just on its own.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hmm. That might be worth a special trip to PAD for some of use who are frustrated about this, just on its own.

So there's going to be 500 extra non-travelling people at Paddington tomorrow evening, watching the gateline and waiting with bated breath...?

 

[Hadders]

Haven't GWR said they are faxing the barriers to allow valid Off Peak tickets? Clearly hasn't been dome for tickets with restriction code W1. I guess we'll soon find out if the F3s have been sorted...

I still think a forum meet on a week day evening with an assortment of valid Off Peak tickets should be considered.

 

[Deerfold]

Haven't GWR said they are faxing the barriers to allow valid Off Peak tickets? Clearly hasn't been dome for tickets with restriction code W1. I guess we'll soon find out if the F3s have been sorted...

Who are they faxing them to?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Who are they faxing them to?

They'll probably have more luck faxing them to St Peter for his gate line than Paddington

 

[bb21]

What we need is a contact, who can actually have some influence. Failing that, some influential publicity, and not one that screams "train spotters" on first viewing.

Obviously something needs to be done about this persistent issue, but I am not sure what the point is of a mass gathering, sorry. I just don't see the point of it. Kick up a fuss when refused, then what?

 

[bnm]

Sorry folks. You'll have to wait for a Paddington gateline trip report. Today's planned journey had to be curtailed.

 

[hounddog]

Does this mean you've added break of journey to the mix?

 

[timbo58]

I cannot believe this has gone on for 40 pages frankly.

Don't blame me - as I left GW a LONG time ago but I recruited the first staff for that gate line and was quite happy with them and the Reading barriers too, they were punctual, reliable and courteous staff willing to learn and I rarely had a legitimate complaint about any of them in my days there.

In those days they were supplied training and laminated A5 crib sheets (which I had started off making for the depot SC's and which proved popular) which had all the normal ticket restrictions and easements written on them for each train departing Padd in the peak, it was simply a matter of checking the crib if the gates said 'No'.

If the sheets were unclear they could refer the query to the XS fares ticket office and the senior gateline staff there to check in those huge books (NFM's) where all ticket codes were explained.

I can't believe it's become so very much more complicated nowadays that (a repeated mind you) specific ticketing issue hasn't been fully resolved by now.

Surely, given the fact this issue has been ongoing for such a long time every single member of that gateline wherever they normally work on it and what time/day they work would have been re-trained by now at least with these specific restrictions?

I know that would have been top of my list had I still be in charge!

 

[LexyBoy]

I was disappointed - but not surprised - at the weekend to see plastered up at the gateline the same table of ticket validity against departure: reprinted in GWR green but still with not a mention that it applies only to tickets to/from London.

 

[Gagravarr]

So, my friend complained to GWR, mentioning firstly the issue at the gateline, then secondly the incorrect on-train announcements. Their initial response was:

Making sure we give the right information

Thank you for your email about your journey on 11 March. I’m sorry to
learn of the upset and stress caused by the information provided about off
peak tickets.

We know how important it is to keep our customers up to date with accurate
information so I was concerned to learn of your experience. I’ve therefore
checked all the details for you. The information provision and our systems
are based on the general off peak restrictions as these are relevant to the
majority of our customers. However, we are aware that there are a limited
number of tickets which fall outside the normal restrictions, such as the
ticket you held from Peckham Rye. If a customer is concerned about the
restrictions we would recommend that they approach the train manager for
clarification.

We do however welcome all feedback we receive, as this allows us to
identify any areas where there is a clear need for improvement. Your
comments regarding your experience have therefore been logged for the
relevant managers.

Once again, I’m sorry you feel so let down. I hope this explains how we’ll
handle your complaint. And I hope you’ll have a much better experience next
time you travel with us.

My friend emailed back saying that this didn't answer his question, as it didn't explain how he was supposed to see a train manager if the barriers and barrier staff wouldn't let him through, and didn't explain why they were knowingly making incorrect announcements on board. Reply received to that was even less useful.

Can anyone please let me know the details for my friend to escalate this? He's gone from being quite annoyed (at the initial issue) to livid (at how they've tried to fob him off, badly), so he's keen to take it further!

 

[jon0844]

I've been told before that if you email the usual customer services (Serco run) then they just pick answers from drop down menus - with very limited 'personalised' text. As such, you get a response that appears almost relevant, while totally missing the point.

You'd definitely need to escalate things further. I had the same missed point emails over a situation I had with messed up tickets (incorrectly printed) and eventually got a proper response from a real person that didn't just insert responses. Sadly, it still missed the point, but at least told me all that I needed to know (basically, if a ticket prints wrong from a machine you're f**ked and the best you can hope for is for staff to endorse the ticket).

 

[maniacmartin]

Are you the Gagravarr that used to work in Charlbury by chance?

This is a pitiful but wholly unsurprising response from GWR. I guess by "a limited number of tickets which fall outside the normal restrictions" they mean tickets with origins in large swathes of the country?

 

[Gagravarr]

Are you the Gagravarr that used to work in Charlbury by chance?

I am! I was actually back in Charlbury a few weeks ago, delighting in the luxury of 2 platforms and on-time trains... What a difference quite a few years makes!

 

[richw]

So, my friend complained to GWR, mentioning firstly the issue at the gateline, then secondly the incorrect on-train announcements. Their initial response was:



My friend emailed back saying that this didn't answer his question, as it didn't explain how he was supposed to see a train manager if the barriers and barrier staff wouldn't let him through, and didn't explain why they were knowingly making incorrect announcements on board. Reply received to that was even less useful.

Can anyone please let me know the details for my friend to escalate this? He's gone from being quite annoyed (at the initial issue) to livid (at how they've tried to fob him off, badly), so he's keen to take it further!

Find somebody high up, their email address will be firstname.surname @ firstgroup . Com (without spaces)

Names of high up managers are publically available on GWR web https://www.gwr.com/about-us/our-business/executive-team

I've found emailing the Chiefs gets results.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been told before that if you email the usual customer services (Serco run)

Outsourcing of customer services. Oh dear, that takes things to a new low.

 

[richw]

Just to clarify Serco are not the outsource company. Serco sold that part of their business 18 months ago to Blackstone Group who provide it under their intelenet brand, however they are losing the contract as didn't make final round of bidding,

 

[bnm]

Can anyone please let me know the details for my friend to escalate this? He's gone from being quite annoyed (at the initial issue) to livid (at how they've tried to fob him off, badly), so he's keen to take it further!

I have been in contact with Gagravarr by PM regarding who best to contact at GWR, forwarding him details of the Customer Support Manager who dealt with my Paddington gateline trials and tribulations. The same Manager with whom I had a face to face meeting back in December 2015.

I think it best if the Manager's name is not divulged here, but if anyone else experiences issues with valid tickets and being told they are not valid through Paddington at certain times then do please post about it here and complain through the normal GWR Customer Service channels. After the initial response, and any follow up to a complaint, if you remain unsatisfied with the replies from GWR, then PM me and I can possibly assist further.

If it gets to the stage where there's more than a couple of folk complaining about what is ostensibly the same issue then there is more chance of a 'super' complaint to Transport Focus/London Travelwatch having some clout.

Meanwhile, I'll link back to the replies I had from the Manager who dealt with my complaints and the response from GWR MD Mark Hopwood via my MP:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2471714&postcount=509

One note of caution about the journey recently under discussion (Peckham Rye - Oxford +Any Permitted Off Peak Single) and its restriction code - W1. The flows from South London to Thames Valley stations are priced by GWR. My issues were with flows priced by, and thus restriction coded by, other operators. Far easier for GWR to change the restrictions on flows they price.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry folks. You'll have to wait for a Paddington gateline trip report. Today's planned journey had to be curtailed.

Assignment in the South East today. F3 ticket held...

I can hear Shakespeare's Henry V battle cry in my head.

 

[jon0844]

Good luck
We're all counting on you

 

[bnm]

^^^LIKE^^^