FGW train stranded at Pewsey

[Morgsie]

Is First still in negotiations with Whitehall regarding the Franchise extension?

This may be a factor in what happens.

 

[KA4C]

A Driver/Transmarche

Shall we suggest a Hansard approach to this problem.

A Driver merely misspoke himself a that moment. He, of course, meant to say the person from FGW was merely being economical with the truth whilst Transmarche, after a tiring and emotional debate suffered a slight aural distraction at an inopportune moment

Oh I think some of us understood exactly what A Driver was getting at

 

[455driver]

Technical Query:

If you were to pull up one HST next to another with a view to evacuating the passengers, wouldn‘t it be possible to walk them through via the guards van as I believe these have large sliding doors?

No, there are power cars at each end of the set so you cannot "walk through" into another train, all outside doors on HSTs are of the hinged type.

 

[DarloRich]

This has been pointed out by several people.

There are potential risks either way if taken to the extremes, but remaining onboard is much safer, and passengers getting off the train on their own initiatives is a big no-no. Selfish to the extreme without any good reason and several people have already explained why.



I think a common phenomenon of focusing on the insignificant in the grand scheme of things resurfaced with that argument you referred to.

It's all part of conflict management, rather important in a situation like this one.

exactly - mollification, deflection, distraction, rapport and reassurance all work well

 

[SWT_USER]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with having a fag. Staff would have been missing out on breaks and probably orking longer hours than usual during the incident.

Illegal to smoke in the workplace

 

[transmanche]

This has nothing to do with the topic being discussed and I'm fed up with arguing rubbish with you on these forums at the moment as you seem to enjoy taki quotes out of context to try and booster your own argument.

Well clearly I didn't take it out of context. I even re-posted all the context to make it clear.

I'm happy to carry on providing factual information and reasons why stuff happens from my experience but am not having stupid childish debates with people like you who are basically out for an argument.

Then I wonder why you made the comment about the off-duty member of staff in the first place.

If you don't like reading my opinion then you have the option in the forum's control panel to block me - thus sparing you any distress.

 

[Goatboy]

No, there are power cars at each end of the set so you cannot "walk through" into another train, all outside doors on HSTs are of the hinged type.

He said next to another - presumably he means pull the power cars up alongside on adjacent tracks. The doors on the power car are sliding doors and accessible from the adjacent coaches.

I wonder how many HST's passed the striken train heading in the other direction in the 6 hours it was stationary?

 

[KA4C]

Illegal to smoke in the workplace

Out on the ballast isn't included in that

 

[455driver]

Is First still in negotiations with Whitehall regarding the Franchise extension?

This may be a factor in what happens.

Oh yeah one train failure will definitely rule them out of the running now! :roll:

It is one train failure, yes it could have been handled better but if you can remember the beginning of this franchise and compare it with how the franchise is running now then First Group have done quite well really.

 

[KA4C]

Oh yeah one train failure will definitely rule them out of the running now! :roll:

and, of course, FGW were not the only organisation involved in the management of this incident

 

[455driver]

and, of course, FGW were not the only organisation involved in the management of this incident

Very true!

I apologise for getting caught up in all the anti FGW rubbish on here!

 

[bb21]

He said next to another - presumably he means pull the power cars up alongside on adjacent tracks. The doors on the power car are sliding doors and accessible from the adjacent coaches.

I wonder how many HST's passed the striken train heading in the other direction in the 6 hours it was stationary?

Yes, I understand it in that way too.

He was addressing a previous question someone raised about whether there is sufficient room between two parallel trains for the carriage doors to swing open on both trains. Transferring passengers via the Guard's door could be a potential solution for that.

 

[Temple Meads]

Transferring passengers via the Guard's door could be a potential solution for that.

The power car door isn't technically the guards door, it's used for storing cycles etc, the guards door is just an ordinary sized one in the TGS, so would be no better for transferring passengers.

 

[A-driver]

Well clearly I didn't take it out of context. I even re-posted all the context to make it clear.

Then I wonder why you made the comment about the off-duty member of staff in the first place.

If you don't like reading my opinion then you have the option in the forum's control panel to block me - thus sparing you any distress.

Are you for real? I suggested that the (incredibly brave given the circumstances) staff member wasn't likely to start praising fgw control etc infront of all the frustrated passengers and common sense, basic customer service and in this case survival instinct would suggest that you side with the passengers, let them vent their frustration and agree/sympathise with them. What you don't do is tell a load of passengers who simply don't have a clue about the technicalities of the situation that they don't know what they are on about or else you end up with exactly what has happend on this thread-frustrated people without a clue about how things like this work (and I genuinely don't mean any disrespect by that no matter how it comes across) giving unworkable and impractical suggestions. Plus he would be putting himself in danger, mainly of incredibly heavy verbal abuse like the FCC driver got at Kentish town and possibly even of a physical assault from an irate passenger. He is hardly likely to say 'well yes, some elements are handles badly but on the whole I ink they're doing a pretty good job giving the circumstances' or else he would be the first person to evacuate the train, possibly head first and via a saloon window.

Obviously he may genuinely believe they did badly, we don't even know what his job is-he may be a cleaner with no clue about operations or may be a control manager himself, but in the video all he was doing was trying to provide info to the passengers and allow them to vent their frustration. But to say that even he thout FGW did badly is a bit of a sweeping statement based on a few you tube clips alone!

That is not lying, and I strongly suspect you know that. If you don't en you are the only person on here to believe it to be lying as anyone with an ounce of common sense would recognise what I am talking about. It has nothing to do with the railway industry but any industry with ay level of customer service.

You either misread my comment or took it deliberately out of context to make a remark in order to get an argumentative response (basically trolling).

 

[yorksrob]

He said next to another - presumably he means pull the power cars up alongside on adjacent tracks. The doors on the power car are sliding doors and accessible from the adjacent coaches.

Yes, that's what I was getting at - in the same way (as I read it) as the Pendolino's South of Lancaster. I'm aware the power cars are generally out of bounds but I wasn't sure whether they're physically blocked off.

 

[Temple Meads]

Yes, that's what I was getting at - in the same way (as I read it) as the Pendolino's South of Lancaster. I'm aware the power cars are generally out of bounds but I wasn't sure whether they're physically blocked off.

The power cars are accessible, at least from Coach H (not sure about through the TGS, but I'd assume so?), I took this picture on Friday, you can see a sort of bolt lock on the bottom right of the picture, I assume train crew would have the key for this?

On some Coach H's, there are double doors that cover the door to the power car, but I believe these can be unlocked using a T-Key.

 

[Geargrinder]

No you wouldn't get anything but at least Green Flag or whoever would get you home if you broke down! And guarantee to get to you within 20 mins! Also train travel is usually a lot more expensive than car travel. If your'e going from Penzance to London the train is slower too.

Greeflag, AA,RAC etc won't do you any good if are on a section of motorway closed by the police due to a collision or incident. My point which Goatboy has also missed, is that by choosing to travel long distance by rail, rather than road, provides you with a contract to get from a to b with the toc. Therefore you can complain and be compensated when things go wrong.

 

[yorksrob]

The power cars are accessible, at least from Coach H (not sure about through the TGS, but I'd assume so?), I took this picture on Friday, you can see a sort of bolt lock on the bottom right of the picture, I assume train crew would have the key for this?

On some Coach H's, there are double doors that cover the door to the power car, but I believe these can be unlocked using a T-Key.

Ah, thanks for the confirmation

 

[transmanche]

Are you for real? I suggested that the (incredibly brave given the circumstances) staff member wasn't likely to start praising fgw control etc infront of all the frustrated passengers and common sense, basic customer service and in this case survival instinct would suggest that you side with the passengers, let them vent their frustration and agree/sympathise with them.

No one suggested that he would 'praise FGW control'. So why did you bring it up?

You'll have noticed I commented upthread about the round of applause the off-duty staff member received. I think he did a grand job and the passengers recognised that. I don't think he was under any threat at any time.

Obviously he may genuinely believe they did badly, we don't even know what his job is-he may be a cleaner with no clue about operations or may be a control manager himself, but in the video all he was doing was trying to provide info to the passengers and allow them to vent their frustration.

He said that he would be taking part in the [post-mortem] conference call "as a passenger and an employee". I have no reason to doubt his statement.

But to say that even he thout FGW did badly is a bit of a sweeping statement based on a few you tube clips alone!

I can only go by the evidence of my own eyes and ears.

You either misread my comment or took it deliberately out of context

Well if I misunderstood your remark then I apologise. But it still seems rather an odd remark to make in the first case. And the question I asked did not deserve the rant and the personal comments you made about me.

 

[Martin_1981]

Does anyone know which power car was the culprit? I caught the 9.24 Plymouth to Penzance on Saturday with 43150 and 152, 150 did not sound healthy before leaving Plymouth, it's coolant fan appeared to be on full blast and it crawled virtually all the way to St Erth, where it arrived nearly 15 mins late, causing me to miss the St Ives connection. 152 at the rear sounded really noisy and appeared to be struggling out of St Erth, so 150 had probably died by then!

The return journey wasn't much better (17.40 Pnz-Pad) had no aircon in coach E and did an emergency stop on Truro viaduct due to some idiot on the line which cost us 15 minutes. The service lost another 8 minutes between there and Exeter, where I was glad to get off in the end.

I love the HST's, but the FGW ones appear to be showing their age of late.

 

[KA4C]

But it still seems rather an odd remark to make in the first case. .

Not to anyone who has been in that situation it isn't. I understood perfectly what was meant, why didn't you?

 

[richw]

A 57 towed the poorly power car back to Laira from Westbury today.

 

[455driver]

Does anyone know which power car was the culprit?

Twas 43150, since dragged from Westbury to Laira by 57605 (I think) which is now blasting off towards Cornwall to attach to the up sleeper at Penzance for the 2145 departure.

 

[transmanche]

I understood perfectly what was meant, why didn't you?

Because everyone is different and has their own life experience when interpreting a statement. It seemed an odd statement to me, so I asked a simple question to clarify the position. That's fairly straightforward isn't it? If you don't understand something to ask for clarification? It doesn't deserve a barrage of abuse.

 

[A-driver]

No one suggested that he would 'praise FGW control'. So why did you bring it up?

You'll have noticed I commented upthread about the round of applause the off-duty staff member received. I think he did a grand job and the passengers recognised that. I don't think he was under any threat at any time.

He said that he would be taking part in the [post-mortem] conference call "as a passenger and an employee". I have no reason to doubt his statement.

I can only go by the evidence of my own eyes and ears.

Well if I misunderstood your remark then I apologise. But it still seems rather an odd remark to make in the first case. And the question I asked did not deserve the rant and the personal comments you made about me.

I think you know exactly what I meant as most people on here did.

You obviously havnt ever been in any situation similar to the guy in question. I can assure you that anyone who has spent a reasonable amount of time working in the railway industry on the front line certainly has and would do exactly what this guy did for exactly the reasons I gave.

I didn't say anyone said he would praise control, I said if he thought they were doing a good job then he would be suicidal to say so to the punters. And the reason he got a round of applause was because he acted how he did. If he tried standing up for the company then he wouldn't get a round of applause and could find himself in danger.

My point is that if he has an operational role in the railway then he will know the other side of things and why things were taking so long but it would be unwise to try arguing those points with those onboard.

 

[Andrewlong]

It does make the mind wonder sometimes as to why in this day and age there is no back-up plan for transferring at least the most vulnerable of the passengers as quickly as possible in such circumstances, if it is not feasible for transferring everyone in a fully occupied HST.

On this forum I have questioned why Network Rail/TOC's are incapable of not having such plans and I get laughed at by some railway employees who say its not possible.

Well this is a major c*ck up and FGW have some explaining todo.

 

[transmanche]

My point is that if he has an operational role in the railway then he will know the other side of things and why things were taking so long but it would be unwise to try arguing those points with those onboard.

That's a fair comment and makes more sense now. (I don't necessarily agree with you, as I take his statements at face value. But that's just my opinion.)

Being that I apologised to you for any misunderstanding, I hope you'll do the same for the things you said about me - so that we can all return to reasoned debate and respect for everyone's point of view.

 

[KA4C]

On this forum I have questioned why Network Rail/TOC's are incapable of not having such plans and I get laughed at by some railway employees who say its not possible..

Laughed at?

 

[1e10]

Illegal to smoke in the workplace

They were outside

He said next to another - presumably he means pull the power cars up alongside on adjacent tracks. The doors on the power car are sliding doors and accessible from the adjacent coaches.

I wonder how many HST's passed the striken train heading in the other direction in the 6 hours it was stationary?

According to RTT the train was due to pass Woodborough (along from Pewsey) at 15:16. The train is reported to have been standing for 5h40m. So it started to move at around 20:56. During 15:16 and 20:56 there are 5 HSTs planned to run past on the oppisite line.

 

[A-driver]

On this forum I have questioned why Network Rail/TOC's are incapable of not having such plans and I get laughed at by some railway employees who say its not possible.

Well this is a major c*ck up and FGW have some explaining todo.

Well there will be an investigation so I wouldn't let it worry you.

And it's been explained incredibly clearly why such plans don't exist. If you can't read those posts explaining the reasons and understand them then I'm not going to bother goi over the reasons again.

I have written an incredibly long post which details what can go wrong and how these incidents happen. That should answer why no black and white plans exist.

Unfortunately you seem unable to begin to imagine how complicated this is and how many variables there are. You can't have a bank of plans and just dig the relevant one out when something goes wrong because you will find that you can't plan for the endless amount of possible situations. If you make 6000 plans for the great western lines alone then what happens when the next incident on the region isn't covered by any of those plans as there are slight differences? It's a waste of money and Impossible to do.

Sorry to sound harsh but I can only explain the reasons so many times. If they could come up with plans then trust me, they would have done by now!