First Aberdeen

[Jordan Adam]

67085 is the last of the E200MMCs to transfer from Aberdeen to Glasgow having made the journey on Saturday. 67717 has joined the Aberdeen fleet in exchange.

69354 is also at Caledonia just now, the three remaining active 08 plate B7RLEs (69354/56/57) are understood to be transferring to the Cymru training fleet to join sister vehicles 69351/52/55 which transferred earlier in the year.

As of today (11th July 2023) Yutongs 65107/11/15/17/18/19/21 are now in service at Aberdeen with all of those listed in service at the time of writing, their primary routes thus far have been the 12 and 23, however once all 24 are in service they'll no doubt see much more widespread use.

I had a ride on one of the Yutongs today and they are nice buses. However, they are severely let down by their interior, uncomfortable and are quite dark and gloomy feeling.

I suspect the seats likely just need worn in a bit, the E400EVs at Stagecoach were the same.

 

[fife_circle]

Is there a problem with hydrogen at the Aberdeen depot at the moment? Noticed none of the hydroliners have been out today(according to bustimes) and a lot of them haven’t been out since Tuesday.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is there a problem with hydrogen at the Aberdeen depot at the moment? Noticed none of the hydroliners have been out today(according to bustimes) and a lot of them haven’t been out since Tuesday.

There's an issue with the refuelling site at Kittybrewster again...

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

There's an issue with the refuelling site at Kittybrewster again...

More problems trying to serve a reliable service to people.

Just because you can and think you should goes some way to proving that something which is experimental or unreliable for a public service is pretty useless.

 

[Jordan Adam]

More problems trying to serve a reliable service to people.

Just because you can and think you should goes some way to proving that something which is experimental or unreliable for a public service is pretty useless.

The issue is nothing to do with the actual technology itself, it's council/government incompetence but that's a topic for elsewhere...

 

[fife_circle]

With 15 deckers out then are they not seeing capacity issues? Especially since they’re usually deployed to the 1&2 on weekends.

 

[Jordan Adam]

With 15 deckers out then are they not seeing capacity issues? Especially since they’re usually deployed to the 1&2 on weekends.

No as generally speaking the 17/18 and to a lesser extent the 19 don't actually require decker capacity, especially now that the schools are off. Additionally all the Citaros have been active lately therefor only half of the Enviro500s are required on the 1/2, add on to that the schools and university being off and around half the Yutongs now being in service.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The issue is nothing to do with the actual technology itself, it's council/government incompetence but that's a topic for elsewhere...

Is there any update on what’s happening with the Streetdecks? It seems like they have been out of service for such a long time now.

 

[Volvodart]

Waiting for new hydrogen facility which is supposed to be operational for refuelling the 25 hydrogen buses by the end of 2024.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Waiting for new hydrogen facility which is supposed to be operational for refuelling the 25 hydrogen buses by the end of 2024.

Ouch that’s a long time away

 

[overthewater]

What is planned for August?

• • PM0000631/219 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Dyce Shopping Centre to Faulds Gate Gardner Drive, Aberdeen via Newhills, Great Northern Road, Ferryhill, Kincorth
    Service number: 17 (172, 17A, 17K, 17S)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/195 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Dyce Shopping Centre to Redmoss via Stoneywood, Danestone, Tillydrone
    Service number: 18 (18S, 18A)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/154 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Scatterburn, Manor Avenue to Hillhead of Seaton, Don Street via Mastrick, Union Street, Bridge of Don
    Service number: 13
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/130 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Mastrick, Findhorn Place to Cove, Cove Road or Charleston Road via Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, Atlens Industrial Estate (Harneness Place), Lochside Academy
    Service number: 3 (3G, 3A)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/224 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Countesswells to Balnagask Circle via Airyhall
    Service number: 15 (15B, 15S)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/16 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Heatheryfold to Torry via Forresterhill Hospital, Guild Street
    Service number: 12
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/9 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Aberdeen, Summerhill to Heathryfold, Provost Rust Drive
    Service number: 23
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023
    
  
  

• PM0000631/1 Registered​

  FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
  Route: Culter to Tillydrone
  Service number: 19
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

 

[PG]

What is planned for August?

I'm guessing that these changes are related to the schools going back on the following Tuesday 22nd?

 

[Jordan Adam]

What is planned for August?

• • PM0000631/219 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Dyce Shopping Centre to Faulds Gate Gardner Drive, Aberdeen via Newhills, Great Northern Road, Ferryhill, Kincorth
    Service number: 17 (172, 17A, 17K, 17S)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/195 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Dyce Shopping Centre to Redmoss via Stoneywood, Danestone, Tillydrone
    Service number: 18 (18S, 18A)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/154 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Scatterburn, Manor Avenue to Hillhead of Seaton, Don Street via Mastrick, Union Street, Bridge of Don
    Service number: 13
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/130 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Mastrick, Findhorn Place to Cove, Cove Road or Charleston Road via Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, Atlens Industrial Estate (Harneness Place), Lochside Academy
    Service number: 3 (3G, 3A)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/224 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Countesswells to Balnagask Circle via Airyhall
    Service number: 15 (15B, 15S)
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/16 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Heatheryfold to Torry via Forresterhill Hospital, Guild Street
    Service number: 12
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

  • PM0000631/9 Registered​

    FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
    Route: Aberdeen, Summerhill to Heathryfold, Provost Rust Drive
    Service number: 23
    Service type: Normal Stopping
    Effective date: 20 Aug 2023
  
  

• PM0000631/1 Registered​

  FIRST ABERDEEN LTD
  Route: Culter to Tillydrone
  Service number: 19
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 20 Aug 2023

As above, it's mostly just related to the changes to the school services, although I'd imagine there are also some other minor changes included probably mainly to the 13 and 19.

The nature of the Aberdeen network these days often means if one route changes then another has to etc. For example, the 12 and 23 are coordinated to provide a consistent combined frequency from Heathryfold at all times.

New post 19/07/2023

69129, 69134, 69283, 69284 and 69357 are now off licence.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

You know I’m still curious what they’ll be planning to replace the Tri-Axle and Bendys with.

The next student session at the Robert Gordon will begin in September so the current crop of buses should cope with loadings but if I recall last year(2022) there was people being left stood on Union Street and in some cases people being late for university classes.

If the current crop of there highest capacity buses can’t cope and given the fact there not exactly young vehicles it still begs the question, are they going to replace those with standard double decker EVs? Which are limited by there payload as well given unladen most of them are around the 13t mark.

 

[Volvodart]

It is only for about 5 weeks in September/October and again in January/February that there are a lot of students there that they need capacity for now. When they belatedly started the 1A in February it basically ran mostly empty.

 

[stevenedin]

You know I’m still curious what they’ll be planning to replace the Tri-Axle and Bendys with.

The next student session at the Robert Gordon will begin in September so the current crop of buses should cope with loadings but if I recall last year(2022) there was people being left stood on Union Street and in some cases people being late for university classes.

If the current crop of there highest capacity buses can’t cope and given the fact there not exactly young vehicles it still begs the question, are they going to replace those with standard double decker EVs? Which are limited by there payload as well given unladen most of them are around the 13t mark.

I can’t see them going with anything other than electric or hydrogen but the Enviro 400 XLB or shortened version would be ideal but whether or not they want to purchase more diesel buses is another story.

There is also the option that they could put on extra buses if required and the resources allow.

 

[computerSaysNo]

You know I’m still curious what they’ll be planning to replace the Tri-Axle and Bendys with.

The next student session at the Robert Gordon will begin in September so the current crop of buses should cope with loadings but if I recall last year(2022) there was people being left stood on Union Street and in some cases people being late for university classes.

If the current crop of there highest capacity buses can’t cope and given the fact there not exactly young vehicles it still begs the question, are they going to replace those with standard double decker EVs? Which are limited by there payload as well given unladen most of them are around the 13t mark.

What's the crush-load capacity of a bendy?
If Union Street to Robert Gordon is as busy as it's made out to be then it seems an ideal route for trams? The Edinburgh tram vehicles can carry 250 people each, I'm not sure if that's standard capacity or crush-load though.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Alexander Dennis have plans to launch an E500 EV.

 

[Jordan Adam]

69263 is the latest B7RLE to be taken off licence. Additionally 69265 is for disposal.

 

[dodecahedron67]

What's the crush-load capacity of a bendy?
If Union Street to Robert Gordon is as busy as it's made out to be then it seems an ideal route for trams? The Edinburgh tram vehicles can carry 250 people each, I'm not sure if that's standard capacity or crush-load though.

Bendy capacity 147, the current 5+1 in York are supposedly joining the 9 in Aberdeen as soon as we get our leccy buses

 

[Volvodart]

It is double deckers that Aberdeen are needing, as during the autumn, at least, most of the branded hydrogen buses have to be used on other routes that need the capacity, and the new electric buses have less seats than the buses they replaced.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

So all those most recent comments is why I have mentioned my curiosity in what the company will purchase.

I have really went off Hydrogen Power, apart from an unlikely power cut at King St depot operationally full EV electric buses are best.

Where capacity is concerned for a few months of the year I certainly believe more Mercedes Citaros or indeed 400XLBs would be the best option even if they are diesel, but only just enough of them for those extra loadings, most of the year standard 2-axle buses are fine for The Bridges.

I have further concerns with routes 1 & 2 and the way in which First has approached its decision making regarding what buses to buy and how that may negatively affect the usability of the downstairs space on double decker vehicles for passengers, the hydrogen have a shocking down stair seating layout, an Enviro 400EV is another poor vehicle for this, I simply don’t like this oversight on Firsts part, particularly as they often waffle on about passenger being “customers” and they “care” about there needs.

Bendy buses seems fine on the surface but the UKs roadside infrastructure isn’t suited for them, it kind of makes there dual-door configuration seem pointless at times, especially given that most don’t exit via the Rear Door.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Alexander Dennis have plans to launch an E500 EV.

Those will most likely go to China first for KMB for example.

What's the crush-load capacity of a bendy?
If Union Street to Robert Gordon is as busy as it's made out to be then it seems an ideal route for trams? The Edinburgh tram vehicles can carry 250 people each, I'm not sure if that's standard capacity or crush-load though.

Crush loading really isn’t a great practice on buses, which is one reason I’m glad someone brought up the 400XLB, it’s capacity on its upper deck particularly should help alleviate crush loading you may find on a bendy bus, despite the theoretical numbers of people you should be able to put on a bendy it isn’t logical to aim to crush load passengers, it’s creates a nightmare trying to get people on and off..

 

[kkong]

Bendy buses seems fine on the surface but the UKs roadside infrastructure isn’t suited for them, it kind of makes there dual-door configuration seem pointless at times, especially given that most don’t exit via the Rear Door.

I would like to exit via the rear door, but they are not fitted with card readers, which First are imploring passengers to use for their TOTO (tap-on, tap-off) scheme.

 

[Volvodart]

You do not need to tap off in Aberdeen unless you are making 1 or 2 journeys a day of up to 2 stages a time. Otherwise you are paying the 2 journey then day ticket price for more than 1/2 journeys anyway. I would pay by contactless anyway if I were using 1 or 2 small journeys anyway, as I am unsure if tapping off calculates the correct fare.

 

[Jordan1296]

You do not need to tap off in Aberdeen unless you are making 1 or 2 journeys a day of up to 2 stages a time. Otherwise you are paying the 2 journey then day ticket price for more than 1/2 journeys anyway. I would pay by contactless anyway if I were using 1 or 2 small journeys anyway, as I am unsure if tapping off calculates the correct fare.

I fail to see why Tap On, Tap Off readers were needed in the first place. Having used Lothian’s TapTapCap for the past few months, that works perfectly fine.

Seems like they are trying to complicate things unnecessarily.

 

[Volvodart]

First wanted them everywhere, where possible, but exceptionally in Aberdeen they were not needed.

 

[Jordan1296]

First wanted them everywhere, where possible, but exceptionally in Aberdeen they were not needed.

Would be interested to know how popular it is across the business (where installed), but in Aberdeen specifically.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

You do not need to tap off in Aberdeen unless you are making 1 or 2 journeys a day of up to 2 stages a time. Otherwise you are paying the 2 journey then day ticket price for more than 1/2 journeys anyway. I would pay by contactless anyway if I were using 1 or 2 small journeys anyway, as I am unsure if tapping off calculates the correct fare.

If the ticket machines GPS is down for whatever reason, which can be seen often enough on the ticket machine, the integrity of the tap-off depends on the actual ticket machine at the driver. They're not great as is and after using them for quite a few years now that is the conclusion: they're poor.

Would be interested to know how popular it is across the business (where installed), but in Aberdeen specifically.

Most passengers are under the impression that going from one end of the route to the other and you must tap-off. It only saves money if you're going a very short distance.

Observe First Aberdeen, if you buy a 15 in 28 day ticket bundle on the app at £56.70, those 15 day tickets work out at £3.78 each; that’s cheaper than buying 15 individual day tickets, one day ticket currently priced at £5.10, or even the 2-journey ticket which is is £4.70. The tap-on/tap-off only works across 7 days of any 1 week so you won’t get it as cheap as absolutely possible given other ticket options.

It is apparently stackable using the tap-on, tap-off with these bundles to make it cheap as possible for you to travel. First bus noted this at the beginning of the scheme, however, it should only work with the 3in7 or 5in7 day bundles for it to be the cheapest it can be within 1 week.

If this isn’t clear maybe somebody could elaborate a bit more clearly.

What I will say is that it fundamentally doesn’t make much sense and isn’t saving anyone much money. It’s a clever system to give such an impression of saving money..

 

[kkong]

First Aberdeen claim to only have two single journey prices (£1.95 and £3.05), regardless of the journey length.

My experience with TOTO is that there is something else going on.

Or is there another explanation for the daily total of £3.50 for two journeys shown in the attachment?

Other than this travel on 27 Jun, I had no other journeys after 15 Jun until 14 Jul, so it isn't related to weekly capping.

 

[Volvodart]

There is a £3.50 evening ticket which there are no details for. That is the only thing I can think of. That should offer you unlimited travel after 6 pm, if you want to test it.