First Greater Glasgow

[JumpinTrainz]

If First Group did sell in the UK would the company “First” just disappear or would they still trade under the same name it would just have different owners?

 

[Volvodart]

The name would definitely change if it was outwith Firstgroup ownership.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Glasgow City without First seems odd....

Strathclyde buses could make a comeback? We already have 1 bus painted

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Great - “British Bus” can make a comeback

 

[Jordan Adam]

Great - “British Bus” can make a comeback

I'm awaiting Stagecoach becoming the "National Bus Company"...

 

[Gingerbus1991]

If politics keeps going the way it is we may one day be called Transport for Scotland?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

If politics keeps going the way it is we may one day be called Transport for Scotland?

It bloody well better not.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

It bloody well better not.

I hope for one day we will

 

[Jordan Adam]

I hope for one day we will

You do realise bus operators going back in to public ownership will not solve any of the issues the industry currently faces, but rather it would do the opposite, whenever a council has a budget cut it would be the buses that are hit. People seem to be stuck in this fantasy land where buses going in to public ownership would see increased investment in new vehicles along with old routes restored, but it's simply not true.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You do realise bus operators going back in to public ownership will not solve any of the issues the industry currently faces, but rather it would do the opposite, whenever a council has a budget cut it would be the buses that are hit. People seem to be stuck in this fantasy land where buses going in to public ownership would see increased investment in new vehicles along with old routes restored, but it's simply not true.

Bang on!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Who knows, but at the moment the government's outside London have very little leverage to improve on anything through private firms doing as they please.

Public ownership may be a stretch but regulation of some sort hrough giving local authorities more power to halt heavy competition on certain corridors which in many ways reduced the effectiveness for companies to generate revenue, in the end increasing prices.

The issue is a double-edged sword.

 

[CM]

You do realise bus operators going back in to public ownership will not solve any of the issues the industry currently faces, but rather it would do the opposite, whenever a council has a budget cut it would be the buses that are hit. People seem to be stuck in this fantasy land where buses going in to public ownership would see increased investment in new vehicles along with old routes restored, but it's simply not true.

Seems to work in Edinburgh....

 

[Jordan Adam]

Seems to work in Edinburgh....

Don't know how many times this has to be explain by people on here, but Edinburgh is a unique case and a different kettle of fish.

 

[CM]

Don't know how many times this has to be explain by people on here, but Edinburgh is a unique case and a different kettle of fish.

It's a council owned company that invests regularly in it's fleet and provides a decent service to the people it serves unlike private companies like First who treat their passengers with contempt by consitiently cutting back routes and bumping fares up thinking it'll make them more money when what has actually happend is that it has basically forced people into their cars again. The fact that First have actually used increasing car ownership and the resulting congestion as a pitiful excuse to continue bumping fares up and cutting routes is hillarious, it's no wonder they are in the state they are in.

 

[KendalKing]

The fact that First have actually used increasing car ownership and the resulting congestion as a pitiful excuse to continue bumping fares up and cutting routes is hillarious,

Stagecoach is doing exactly the same where I live, that because they have a monopoly, so can get away with it.

 

[route101]

Anyone know why the 31 is now eclipse s ? Was there an issue with alx400s?

 

[lastbus]

Have heard there will be no more new buses except the 2 electric buses whilst the sale/split of first bus is ongoing. Also heard there will be no more fleet transfers aswell. Don’t know how true this is maybe someone can confirm?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Have heard there will be no more new buses except the 2 electric buses whilst the sale/split of first bus is ongoing. Also heard there will be no more fleet transfers aswell. Don’t know how true this is maybe someone can confirm?

Not true, there will be more new buses but not until later in the year (as planned).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Stagecoach is doing exactly the same where I live, that because they have a monopoly, so can get away with it.

The problem is that the bus industry totally is in trouble. Some issues are undoubtedly self inflicted. However, you have the problem of reduced high street footfall plus poor remuneration for passes etc.

In Glasgow, the problem is even more acute as the authorities have pursued a policy of building motorways into the centre of the city so actively encouraging car use. Been a few years since I visited last but I couldn't believe the level of on street parking in the centre and lack of bus priority.

 

[lastbus]

Not true, there will be more new buses but not until later in the year (as planned).

Thanks

 

[overthewater]

Im surprised that rumor has even made it out the mouths? First can start axing Big orders for buses and I doubt LEZ will wait for a new buyer. Any new buyer will know what is happening especially with new stock

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Im surprised that rumor has even made it out the mouths? First can start axing Big orders for buses and I doubt LEZ will wait for a new buyer. Any new buyer will know what is happening especially with new stock

Especially as the staff mag in Bristol has only just stated that they've just had board approval for 70 (I think) new gas deckers plus infrastructure for early part of 2020.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Im surprised that rumor has even made it out the mouths? First can start axing Big orders for buses and I doubt LEZ will wait for a new buyer. Any new buyer will know what is happening especially with new stock

Especially as the staff mag in Bristol has only just stated that they've just had board approval for 70 (I think) new gas deckers plus infrastructure for early part of 2020.

OpCo's are just operating "business as usual" until any sales are fully announced. Wouldn't a new vehicle slightly raise the sale price?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

OpCo's are just operating "business as usual" until any sales are fully announced. Wouldn't a new vehicle slightly raise the sale price?

A new vehicle would also increase the debt/commitments for a prospective purchaser. However, in respect of First Glasgow, not investing would mean that the requirement to meet the LEZ would be even more challenging.

 

[overthewater]

Of course If any new buy come in there get chance the current spec of the new buses and get them delivered in the new livery and make a real impact.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Are First actually selling? Or is this just speculation? I thought it was just their American side of things...

 

[overthewater]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ll-greyhound-as-it-bows-to-activist-investors

FirstGroup confirms sale of UK bus division to focus on US business
CEO says it is ‘looking at all options’ from demerger to part sale; unions voice concerns

FirstGroup, one of the biggest British transport companies, is set to turn its back on the UK by selling off its bus division and possibly withdrawing from UK rail operations, following pressure from major shareholders.

The Aberdeen-based group announced it will focus on the US, although it plans to sell off the famous Greyhound coach line, as it reported surging revenues but made a £98m pretax loss.The company said that in future, its core market would be North America, where its school bus operations – First Student and First Transit – generated 60% of operating profits.

The activist investor Coast Capital, the largest single shareholder with a 10% holding, has been pushing for a separation of the US and UK businesses and to replace the board, having declared First’s strategy – and particularly its UK rail investment – as “extraordinarily destructive of capital”.

That was underscored in First’s full-year results, released on Thursday, when the group took a £102m hit from future losses on its South Western Railwayfranchise.

First’s woes were exacerbated with the announcement of fresh industrial action on South Western, after a pause in the long-running dispute over the role of guards. The RMT announced five days of strikes from 18 June.

First also operates Great Western Railway and TransPennine Express, as well as the small, open access passenger rail service, Hull Trains.

The group’s chief executive, Matthew Gregory, said it was “looking at all options” for First Bus, from a demerger to a sale in parts.

Unions said there were major concerns over possible redundancies in the bus division, which carries 1.6 million passengers a day in many UK urban areas outside London. Unite warned losses would not be tolerated, and the RMT and TSSA unions called for First’s bus and rail operations to be taken into public hands.

Gregory signalled that First’s long involvement in UK rail could be coming to an end. “We have concerns with the current balance of risk and reward being offered. We await the outcome of the Williams review as it seeks to address these and other industry issues,” he said.

First is on a shortlist of two for the West Coast Partnership, against a Chinese consortium, for the rights to run intercity trains including the first HS2 high-speed services from 2026. Bidding rules meant Gregory was unable to comment on whether First would maintain its interest. It withdrew from the shortlist for the East Midlands franchise last year.

Gregory defended the price First paid for South Western, saying that the group “absolutely did not” overbid, despite the £102m writedown which he described as a “prudent provision” while negotiations continue with the Department for Transport for compensation.

He said that problems with the infrastructure and strikes had hit performance and it was “very uncertain where future revenues are going to recover.”

Despite the focus on the US, Greyhound, which carries about 17 million passengers a year on its scheduled intercity coaches, will be sold off.

Gregory denied that Coast had forced his hand: “We’ve been talking for at least a year about how to unlock the value in the group ... We haven’t just concocted that in the last two weeks.”

He also hit out at the US private equity group: “Their plan is really to take over the board of a UK listed plc without paying a premium for the business. They’re looking for us to take on more debt, the plans are incoherent inconsistent with a lot of factual inaccuracies.”

While the chief executive said there were no plans at present to change First’s UK listing or head office, he added: “Once we get through this we might reconsider it.”

He declined to put a timescale on the sell-offs but said it would take at least six months.

However, Chad Tuppendorf, partner at Coast Capital, indicated that they would be pushing hard for a date for an emergency meeting to replace seven board members.

He said the restructuring plan was “too little, too late”, adding: “We’re confused by how you maximise profits with no one with relevant transportation experience on the board. We can’t entrust this management team to properly dispose of Greyhound - the last two disposals [of Chicago property and Manchester bus operations] have destroyed an incredible amount of value.”

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are First actually selling? Or is this just speculation? I thought it was just their American side of things...

To summarise things....

• First are going to focus on the US Transit and Schoolbus market; depending on what happens with the current UK rail franchises will dictate what they do with them (keep or cull)
• First are selling Greyhound off
• First UK Bus is to be separated from the Group and sold. The initial statement on Thursday indicated a separation out as a standalone business but on a call with analysts, they have subsequently clarified that all options are open - from a sale to one buyer, sale to parts, or floating it as a separate company on the stock exchange

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ll-greyhound-as-it-bows-to-activist-investors

I particularly like the quotes

Gregory denied that Coast had forced his hand: “We’ve been talking for at least a year about how to unlock the value in the group ... We haven’t just concocted that in the last two weeks.”

He also hit out at the US private equity group: “Their plan is really to take over the board of a UK listed plc without paying a premium for the business. They’re looking for us to take on more debt, the plans are incoherent inconsistent with a lot of factual inaccuracies.”

The latter point is the nub of things. Will investors who paid a lot more than Coast for their shares be happy to see CC make a handsome return at their expense (though feeling it's the best they're going to get) OR let First do it knowing that they (First) haven't got the vested interest that CC have

 

[GaryMcEwan]

If Glasgow was to get sold, would First look to sell both No.1 and No.2 or keep the bits they think will do well for them?

For the employees it's certainly potentially quite a worrying time, and I know personally how worrying it can be waiting to find out whether or not you're gonna have a job at the end of the process.

 

[overthewater]

First would be rid of everything.