First Greater Glasgow

[TheGrandWazoo]

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic springs to mind. Years of underinvestment coming back with big sharp teeth.

In fairness, the LEZ demands euro VI buses (introduced 2015) for all affected routes by 2022. That’s outside the parameters of most operators fleet replacement plans.

 

[lastbus]

I believe Scotland East are getting Streetlites from England to replace the E400s.

Correct 6 already there

 

[Whiteway215]

I believe Scotland East are getting Streetlites from England to replace the E400s.

The other part of this arrangement is that First Bristol are receiving B7TLs from Glasgow in order to convert the service on which the Streetlites worked to double decker operation.

 

[PaulMc7]

Actually think First are beginning to handle the LEZ demands quite well now tbh. I will say though that had they just planned ahead when LEZ was first discussed for Glasgow they'd probably have a large amount of buses here that fit the requirements. Can't be easy considering there's most of the services operated that run into it at one point or another

 

[Scotrail314209]

On a Gemini on the 57A. Quite a smart refurbishment done to it, e-leather, USBs and new poles and flooring. Really is more welcoming than some of the other Gemini’s.

 

[route101]

On a Gemini on the 57A. Quite a smart refurbishment done to it, e-leather, USBs and new poles and flooring. Really is more welcoming than some of the other Gemini’s.

Some have been done but not route branded , dont think theres many

 

[christopherrfc]

Changes now appearing on vosa

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM0000001/636
• Licence Number
  PM0000001

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  19,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Easterhouse Shopping Centre
• Finish point
  West Regent Street, Glasgow
• Via

• Date received
  13 Sep 2019
• Effective date
  27 Oct 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM0000001/636 0 New Manual 13 Sep 2019 27 Oct 2019

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM0000001/640
• Licence Number
  PM0000001

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  X2,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  West Regent Street, Glasgow
• Finish point
  Robroyston, Briarcroft Road
• Via
  M80

• Date received
  13 Sep 2019
• Effective date
  28 Oct 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM0000001/640 0 New Manual 13 Sep 2019 28 Oct 2019

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM0000006/434
• Licence Number
  PM0000006

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  225,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Hamilton, Davington Drive
• Finish point
  Palace Retail Park
• Via

• Date received
  13 Sep 2019
• Effective date
  27 Oct 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM0000006/434 0 New Manual 13 Sep 2019 27 Oct 2019

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM0000001/637
• Licence Number
  PM0000001

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  61,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Sandyhills, Balbeggie Street
• Finish point
  Summerston, Turning Circle
• Via

• Date received
  13 Sep 2019
• Effective date
  27 Oct 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM0000001/637 0 New Manual 13 Sep 2019 27 Oct 2019

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM0000001/638
• Licence Number
  PM0000001

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  60, 60A

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Easterhouse, Terminus
• Finish point
  Clydebank Bus Station or Milngavie
• Via

• Date received
  13 Sep 2019
• Effective date
  27 Oct 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM0000001/638 0 New Manual 13 Sep 2019 27 Oct 2019

 

[overthewater]

So, I take it the X1 is being replaced by the 225 within Hamilton, X2 looks like a new idea.

 

[PaulMc7]

So, I take it the X1 is being replaced by the 225 within Hamilton, X2 looks like a new idea.

The X2 kinda looks like the old X81 minus the Auchinairn part of it

 

[SarahDFIG]

Streetlights coming from down south will all be going to Livingston to replace the vehicles Glasgow has taken. At this time none of the streetlights will be going to Glasgow. Rumoured an number of E300s will be going down south. This could be the case when the next batch of vehicles arrive.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Streetlights coming from down south will all be going to Livingston to replace the vehicles Glasgow has taken. At this time none of the streetlights will be going to Glasgow. Rumoured an number of E300s will be going down south. This could be the case when the next batch of vehicles arrive.

That makes no sense at all given the E300s are Euro 5, surely the next batch of new vehicles should be replacing the B7RLEs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That makes no sense at all given the E300s are Euro 5, surely the next batch of new vehicles should be replacing the B7RLEs.

That's a bit of a 2D view of things. If they get 75 new vehicles and 30 e300s move south to improve the age profile, it is helping a net gain for Glasgow and helps another OpCo. .

Do that for a couple of years and you'll eliminate the Eclipses anyway. The LEZ doesn't have to be fully compliant until 2022? Hence why the last two batches of airport buses have not stayed around.

 

[Jordan Adam]

That's a bit of a 2D view of things. If they get 75 new vehicles and 30 e300s move south to improve the age profile, it is helping a net gain for Glasgow and helps another OpCo. .

Do that for a couple of years and you'll eliminate the Eclipses anyway. The LEZ doesn't have to be fully compliant until 2022? Hence why the last two batches of airport buses have not stayed around.

I get that, but it doesn't make sense to me sending away loads of E5 vehicles when there's a backlog of Euro 2/3 vehicles still running about. The deadline for LEZ is only just over 2 years away so not that far. There's still over 200 Euro 3 B7RLE and B7TLs in the fleet, not to mention a handful of Tridents, Darts and B10BLEs. Granted it is easily possible with two further orders of 300 vehicles (150 each) in 2020/21 and 2021/22, however it just seems rather pointless getting new vehicles then sending E5 vehicles away. Surely a better option would be to retain the E5 vehicles and then allow some new vehicles for other ops which desperately need them. I don't mean to sound like one of those moaners you typically find on obscure Facebook groups who complain about a lack of new buses but as a prime example in the last 5 years Aberdeen has only received 7 new buses and the ones currently on order were funded by the EU.

To sum up, i understand what they're doing, but it just doesn't seem the most logical route to me.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I get that, but it doesn't make sense to me sending away loads of E5 vehicles when there's a backlog of Euro 2/3 vehicles still running about. The deadline for LEZ is only just over 2 years away so not that far. There's still over 200 Euro 3 B7RLE and B7TLs in the fleet, not to mention a handful of Tridents, Darts and B10BLEs. Granted it is easily possible with two further orders of 300 vehicles (150 each) in 2020/21 and 2021/22, however it just seems rather pointless getting new vehicles then sending E5 vehicles away. Surely a better option would be to retain the E5 vehicles and then allow some new vehicles for other ops which desperately need them. I don't mean to sound like one of those moaners you typically find on obscure Facebook groups who complain about a lack of new buses but as a prime example in the last 5 years Aberdeen has only received 7 new buses and the ones currently on order were funded by the EU.

To sum up, i understand what they're doing, but it just doesn't seem the most logical route to me.

I have to agree. It seems pointless to send E5 buses down south when other E5 buses are being cascaded from other areas of the company. The E300s are good buses and should be staying here to oust many of the Euro 2/3 buses.

 

[lastbus]

So, I take it the X1 is being replaced by the 225 within Hamilton, X2 looks like a new idea.

Correct the 225 is X1 replacement.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Remember again that the full fleet doesn't need to meet the LEZ target only city centre workings. If any of the E300s do leave it won't be all of them. As its previously been said other parts of the business that is not getting any investment require newer vehicles also for their ageing fleet. Yes Glasgow has an target to meet we get that but we are still waiting on at least 2 large orders of vehicles too arrive. 100% possibility there could be service cuts to make the process quicker and get E6 vehicles in place where they need to be before the deadline. More E3 vehicles are about to leave very soon

 

[PaulMc7]

Remember again that the full fleet doesn't need to meet the LEZ target only city centre workings. If any of the E300s do leave it won't be all of them. As its previously been said other parts of the business that is not getting any investment require newer vehicles also for their ageing fleet. Yes Glasgow has an target to meet we get that but we are still waiting on at least 2 large orders of vehicles too arrive. 100% possibility there could be service cuts to make the process quicker and get E6 vehicles in place where they need to be before the deadline. More E3 vehicles are about to leave very soon

Think this is the smartest way to do things tbh and the movements recently have been very smart around first. I do expect more cuts but tbh in the off peak there's certainly some services that could get away with it

 

[smtglasgow]

Is the X1 coming off completely? There were about 40 people queuing for it about 5 the other night. A few peak journeys would surely make money? It’s very popular with students at Cally and Strathclyde universities. Can’t see them opting for the 255 or the 267, so that’s another load of season ticket money lost to the train.

 

[PaulMc7]

Is the X1 coming off completely? There were about 40 people queuing for it about 5 the other night. A few peak journeys would surely make money? It’s very popular with students at Cally and Strathclyde universities. Can’t see them opting for the 255 or the 267, so that’s another load of season ticket money lost to the train.

I've never seen it quiet between around 3pm and the last bus. The quickest bus outside of the X1 to Hamilton from Glasgow is more than double the time. It would be stupid for them to get rid of it completely

 

[overthewater]

If the X1 goes completely I can see Stagecoach stepping in.

 

[overthewater]

Is a replacement forthcoming?

PM0000006/23 Cancelled
FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
Route: Hillhouse Farm Road or Davington Drive to Glasgow, Charing Cross via Davington Drive, Fairhill, Hamilton Bus Station, George Square, St Vincent Street
Service number: X1 (X1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 26 Oct 2019

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If the X1 goes completely I can see Stagecoach stepping in.

It's quite far away from any of their depots to make it viable for them.

 

[overthewater]

Down the m73?

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Down the m73?

Where would they do driver changes?

 

[smtglasgow]

Not sure if anyone could make money during the day on the X1 – it’s mainly old folk using their passes. But the peak buses are busy. Maybe a thinned out peak service could work, but then you’d have double-deckers sitting in the depot all day not earning their keep. The industry seems to frown on that, so maybe the whole service has to go. A chance for JMB to restart the McKindless Express?!?

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Not sure if anyone could make money during the day on the X1 – it’s mainly old folk using their passes. But the peak buses are busy. Maybe a thinned out peak service could work, but then you’d have double-deckers sitting in the depot all day not earning their keep. The industry seems to frown on that, so maybe the whole service has to go. A chance for JMB to restart the McKindless Express?!?

JMB's lower operating costs could work but they tend compete with First's busier routes and they've mainly got the Carluke and Lanark market to themselves.

 

[PaulMc7]

Not sure if anyone could make money during the day on the X1 – it’s mainly old folk using their passes. But the peak buses are busy. Maybe a thinned out peak service could work, but then you’d have double-deckers sitting in the depot all day not earning their keep. The industry seems to frown on that, so maybe the whole service has to go. A chance for JMB to restart the McKindless Express?!?

Could even try putting it through the fort? Peak would be the best way to go tbh

 

[PaulMc7]

The other change that's interesting to me is the X2. What exactly will it do to the 19A? If it is cut it will leave a lot of people unhappy as you do usually get some people traveling from Royston/Provanmill to Robroyston. Provanmill has the 8 but it's terribly unreliable at times and goes off earlier than the 19A did

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Is the X1 coming off completely? There were about 40 people queuing for it about 5 the other night. A few peak journeys would surely make money? It’s very popular with students at Cally and Strathclyde universities. Can’t see them opting for the 255 or the 267, so that’s another load of season ticket money lost to the train.

Another 40 people leaving bus transport due to another private firm putting profit before them.

The X1 could certainly be kept in some form, even a peak only service.

Whilst it's not a money maker it could be kept, but not worthy to be kept whilst Euro6 buses would be needed for the service.

 

[alangla]

Not sure if anyone could make money during the day on the X1 – it’s mainly old folk using their passes. But the peak buses are busy. Maybe a thinned out peak service could work, but then you’d have double-deckers sitting in the depot all day not earning their keep. The industry seems to frown on that, so maybe the whole service has to go. A chance for JMB to restart the McKindless Express?!?

Stagecoach seem to do ok with peak services given the convoys of coaches, buses and anything that moves coming from both Ayrshire and Cumbernauld in the morning. A few aged Profile type coaches to run out of Cumbernauld in the peak & you could free enough E400s to make it work. Either that or sub it to Parks. Speaking of which- I remember they used to run their own commuter routes years ago with odd things like centre-door double decks - assume these no longer run? When did they end?

On topic- noticed a blue Gemini on the 2 today. At least the destinations on these new arrivals work, wasn’t that long ago that new additions would only show a service number for months.