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First Greater Glasgow
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A simple easy fix would be to route the regular 75 via, George Square to Hope Street.
O
Would go further than that and add the 60/60A in too and possibly even the 2. It's overkill at the moment especially as all it takes is a bus to be a minute or two late and they pile up
Glasgowbusguy
On Moderation
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I sure there's plans to completely pedestrianise George Square and it is already a bottle neck with Lanarkshire services , the 6A,41,500 ,18 and McGill's 900 routes are sharing the 1 bus stop that is there
Which of course would only add more congestion in other parts of the city.
Someone in the council needs to get serious and say why don't we restrict car use on the Broomielaw, High Street and Cowcaddens Road and immediately it opens up options around the entire City Centre. Extra bus gates have helped a little but even at that the one at the Gorbals is defunct just now with the roadworks just by Caledonia depot
Glasgowbusguy
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Bus / taxi gates for the length of renfield st , hope street , union st , glassford street and Ingram st would definitely help
Tom Gallacher
Member
The easiest - but most controversial solution - would be to ban private traffic from the city centre. In the grand scheme of things how many of these journeys are of necessity as opposed to simply that the travellers can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards. It's almost impossible to park anywhere outwith the multi storey car parks and IMO most cars are simply dropping people off so drop them off outside the exclusion zone. If they're that lazy they could always catch a bus to their final destination 
There is also the solution of a congestion charge. Within the City Centre. In fact it should charge from West of Partick to East of Parkhead. With Springburn to Shawlands in the South. They would solve a number of current congested areas.The easiest - but most controversial solution - would be to ban private traffic from the city centre. In the grand scheme of things how many of these journeys are of necessity as opposed to simply that the travellers can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards. It's almost impossible to park anywhere outwith the multi storey car parks and IMO most cars are simply dropping people off so drop them off outside the exclusion zone. If they're that lazy they could always catch a bus to their final destination
Tom Gallacher
Member
What I've seen of any congestion charge is that it disproportionately hits those who can least afford it.
It's much cheaper to use public transport than fuel a road vehicle. Especially in these inflated price times.
The problem is people don't realise in a lot of areas the buses are actually good because they've done no research into it whatsoever and also think it's First's fault buses are always late like they choose to be late.
I remember replying to someone on Twitter before, can't remember which area they lived in but they had multiple buses of every 15 mins or better and had zero clue that was the case.
stevenedin
Established Member
Yeah people are quick to point out that buses are unreliable and say they will just drive instead but what they don’t understand is that cars still get caught in the same traffic.
They also don't realise it's cars that cause the traffic. I've seen people claim it's buses but considering how many cars a bus can take off the road I somehow don't think so. Yes certain streets can get clogged up due to how many buses use them but it's not buses causing all of the issue.
Tom Gallacher
Member
By that reckoning those that can't afford the congestion charge will currently be travelling by bus anyway which means that those who would be affected by any charge won't give a toss and will happily pay it. It would raise revenue but wouldn't solve the problem.
Even people who moan about the price of fuel won't switch to buses because a lot of them think it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever. Experienced that on multiple occasions. A lot don't realise too that if you create demand you'll get even better services when driver availability allows that.
Don't know if it's been mentioned before here:
A car-free zone is set to be introduced in Glasgow over five years to bring a “European city experience” which will “prioritise people.”
First announced by council leader Susan Aitken during COP26, the zone, now described as a “people first” area, would limit vehicle access to the centre of the city.
It would be bounded by Hope Street, Cowcaddens Road, North Hanover Street/Glassford Street and Howard Street.
www.glasgowlive.co.uk
A car-free zone is set to be introduced in Glasgow over five years to bring a “European city experience” which will “prioritise people.”
First announced by council leader Susan Aitken during COP26, the zone, now described as a “people first” area, would limit vehicle access to the centre of the city.
It would be bounded by Hope Street, Cowcaddens Road, North Hanover Street/Glassford Street and Howard Street.
New Glasgow car-free zone to stop city being used as 'cross-town rat-run'
The plan aims to bring a European city experience to Glasgow and access to vehicles would be for 'essential trips'.
www.glasgowlive.co.uk
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Noddy1
Member
What about people who live outside Glasgow such as Airdrie Coatbridge and Bargeddie which have no direct bus service to the centre of Glasgow during the day because First Glasgow deemed the old 262/2 route uneconomical? Both Airdrie and Coatbridge have populations of about 40,000 each and Bargeddie has seen two large housing developments in the last few years. We are forced to use cars to get to work in Glasgow and back at night leading to congestion on the M8 every day. Oh yes there is a train service to Glasgow but not everyone in Airdrie and Coatbridge lives near a train station. Indeed the villages of Calderbank, and Plains for example have neither a direct bus service to Glasgow nor a train station hence the reason most people have no alternative other than to us we a car if they can afford oneDon't know if it's been mentioned before here:
A car-free zone is set to be introduced in Glasgow over five years to bring a “European city experience” which will “prioritise people.”
First announced by council leader Susan Aitken during COP26, the zone, now described as a “people first” area, would limit vehicle access to the centre of the city.
It would be bounded by Hope Street, Cowcaddens Road, North Hanover Street/Glassford Street and Howard Street.
New Glasgow car-free zone to stop city being used as 'cross-town rat-run'
The plan aims to bring a European city experience to Glasgow and access to vehicles would be for 'essential trips'.
JumpinTrainz
Established Member
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- 30 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 1,806
Living in Lanarkshire I must say the transport links are atrocious. Most people who live out that way have to drive. The train is great if you live nearby a station but not everyone does. It’s baffling to me why the Subway was never extended out to Lanarkshire and Greater Glasgow. The current one is useless.
There's this marvellous concept used in other places called Park and ride. You drive to the local station. Invariably Park free then take the train to the City.
Well practiced in the Greater London area where congestion charging is in place. If your reall lucky you could even get a bus to the station and connect with a train.
If a lot of Lanarkshire used their bus links they wouldn't have lost them to be fair.
Lindsayfield, Stewartfield, Little Earnock, Newarthill, Carfin, Airdrie, Coatbridge, Whifflet, Petersburn all had city centre links by bus and they just weren't used enough. Even Caldercruix had the 262 at one point. I'm sure I've missed more too. Bargeddie had them too well before the train upgrades
Lindsayfield, Stewartfield, Little Earnock, Newarthill, Carfin, Airdrie, Coatbridge, Whifflet, Petersburn all had city centre links by bus and they just weren't used enough. Even Caldercruix had the 262 at one point. I'm sure I've missed more too. Bargeddie had them too well before the train upgrades
Tom Gallacher
Member
That's a fair point but how many of these folks need to travel into the city centre which is the area under discussion here. Also, given the lack of parking spaces, is it not better to drive to a location where you can actually travel by public transport into Glasgow as opposed to going all the way by car. The cost of parking and fuel would almost pay for the cost of a ticket.
Stan Drews
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 1,808
Both the regular Calderbank and Plains bus services pass Airdrie station.
There's a couple of issues to be fair and it's on SPT as well as First. The lack of market research and generally finding out where people want to go is astounding to be honest. It's 2022 and the whole point of the industry is around serving people yet the customer service side of things lacks majorly as well as the app too. That could also be so much better.
The whole thing of having a contact centre that covers areas the staff have zero clue about doesn't help either. Get a couple of staff to operate the Twitter account and respond to queries who generally know the area and it solves a lot of issues. It doesn't even have to result in hiring new staff too. All you need is management and admin staff to have their roles altered to cover it for part of the day. Tweeting out cancellations and having them on the app is a must too but during this entire pandemic only Overtown and Blantyre have had any shared to the public. That's very poor IMO
The whole thing of having a contact centre that covers areas the staff have zero clue about doesn't help either. Get a couple of staff to operate the Twitter account and respond to queries who generally know the area and it solves a lot of issues. It doesn't even have to result in hiring new staff too. All you need is management and admin staff to have their roles altered to cover it for part of the day. Tweeting out cancellations and having them on the app is a must too but during this entire pandemic only Overtown and Blantyre have had any shared to the public. That's very poor IMO
adrock1976
Established Member
Looking at this from both sides, a congestion charge similar to London would be beneficial, as long as it is reinvested in public transport e.g. socially necessary buses, keeping fares low, to help bring back trams, etc. Not into the pockets of local councillors to go on junkets abroad.
The other side of the coin is the suggested zone for the congestion charge will just make those who drive not bother spending money in the centre of Glasgow, but push them towards the Braehead Centre (Renfrew), Silverburn (Pollok), and The Fort (Easterhouse), which are linked to the motorway network and have plenty of free of charge parking. Plus not getting wet, and not bumping into junkies or beggars too.
On another note, I noticed a guy driving the 1C that I used to see keeping an eye on times etc at Clydebank every single day. I keep seeing people say if First put £15 an hour as a driver wage they'd get loads of drivers and tbh I don't think people realise what that would do to the number of buses and fares in general plus conditions and management would probably have to change massively to make the job more rewarding.
To cover £15 an hour wages I doubt many buses could be better than every 15 mins without being loss making
To cover £15 an hour wages I doubt many buses could be better than every 15 mins without being loss making
Trnsprt4Sctlnd
Member
I apologise for the sheer length of this comment but it’s a complex issue & one that I’m passionate about.
There was masses more that needed to have been done years ago, one of those being the culture within, created mostly by toxic management & a problematic hierarchy of tie-fixers. The firms reputation on the street is a severe problem as well. It's a gut feeling I suppose but still, I'm only really going by the way many comments seem to appear on social media with the firm advertising quite heavily for new starts. You often find particularly negative comments and likely not just from previous drivers. Having driven there I think it’s a real problem, one which quite brutally won't be repaired.
A new start on £11ph working 12hr spreadovers on a spare sheet.
Versus
A senior on £12.35ph working an 8-week line of shifts had a preferential choice, likely because the choices had decent day shifts, starting early-ish and finishing at decent times with fewer back shifts.
That doesn’t work, I am personally under the view everybody should take an equal share of all sorts of shifts, earlies, mids, lates, weekday & weekends working on rolling rotas attending work between 8 & 10hrs per day with a guaranteed long weekend every 3-4 weeks.
The last pay deal, it was touted that First Glasgow had about 1300 drivers across all depots.
If you take the contracted 39hrs drivers are offered & times that by both £11ph or £12.35ph, the annual salary before deductions amounts to £22.3k or £25k.
It’s impossible to know what percentage of drivers are on either of those hourly rates as well as those working full time, part-time as well as those working overtime.
If we hypothetically assume that 650 drivers were on £22.3k annually and the other half on £25k, based on a full-time contract, 39hrs per week (paid hours), the wage bill for all 1300 drivers is extreme to say the least, totalling around £30.8m per year, if “all” drivers were on the higher £25k that goes up to £32.5m. While you may think that an extra £1.7m for everybody being on £25k is a cost that the company can’t afford, what I will say from experience is that all full-time drivers will be working more than 39hrs per week, usually between 42-47 per week over 5 days. Keep in mind these are “paid” hours and not the hours actually spent attending work - you aren’t paid for break.
An average of 44 paid hours is more realistic for drivers over 5 days, if we take that average, 44hrs x the hourly rates mentioned above, the annual salary on average jumps again to £25.1k or £28.2k; an increased annual bill to the company again hypothetically having a 650/650 split of lower & higher rate of pay drivers & the annual bill becomes roughly £34.6m. If you add in the cost of mega-paid agency workers as well as the agency charging its own fee, which the company has certainly a fair few of I’d say, their wage bill just for drivers alone is potentially more than £34.6m.
If you add the extra cost the company has for those agency workers but deduct the savings of running electric buses which are still saving them money despite increased electricity costs & simply because diesel has also gone up. There are many older Euro 3/4 buses being replaced by more fuel-efficient Euro 6 models and certainly fewer vehicles sat around Glasgow's depots not burning money so to speak. As well as the natural lack of drivers to pay to run a full service, First Glasgow is financially far more sound than meets the eye. I guarantee that as well as still carrying many people who have no choice but to use a bus, funding the operation including government subsidies and last but not least the young persons free travel scheme has been said to help increase revenue.
Here is what I think should happen.
All drivers on fixed £30k salaries based on a 45hr “working week”, any hours over and above that is paid at £12 per hour.
The reason behind this suggestion is that many HGV drivers, particularly class 1 drivers, gain an annual salary therefore their weekly/monthly wage is a guaranteed fixed amount based on agreed contract hours.
Even more so if you are a bus driver does this make sense. Buses run by the minute, you have a start time, relief time & finishing time. Now outside of running late you're going to be on that bus regardless until you're at your relief point, as well as legally requiring a 30 minute break if you are late for your relief point.
If all 1300 drivers at First Glasgow were on £30k salaries based on a 45hr working week, their guaranteed weekly take home after deductions would be £465.07(as of July this year), the company's bottom line may be reduced but ultimately this measure would go some way to addressing people being enticed into the company, as well as offering at least a future goal to get the work/life balance for drivers improved without reducing their weekly wage as a result of “driving hours” being reduced under the current arrangement the company has.
The damning problem is that first the salary would need to change for every driver but an influx of drivers would be needed to rollout a rota change catering for every driver on a 45hr maximum 5 day week.
To establish new employees and to better your chances, advertising an hourly rate versus a generous £30k salary viewed that way on an advertisement in practice is far more effective, especially if the first thing your gaining is that impressive salary without waiting several years for an increase, you are driving a bus just like everyone else regardless of how long you’ve retained a licence.
But this still has to go hand in hand with the company breaking with its usual self.
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This is all well and good in theory however most drivers don’t want a 45 hour week. Some want 40 others want 50 some even want 57-60 hours a week. There has been recent changes to Rotas with a lot more 4 day weeks which is what a lot of drivers wanted. You also get to pick a rota as a newer driver now so every driver gets to chose a rota albeit based on seniority.
Trnsprt4Sctlnd
Member
Some drivers want to be at work for 40hrs or they want paid for 40hrs? Those are 2 different things regarding being a First Bus Driver.
You miss the entire point here.
the very reason they do not have enough drivers is because most are sick of working long shifts and to many hours aside from people having to pay mortgages & car payments, the reason however they dont mind the longer hours is because it generally pays more.
A perfect scenario is reduced hours but increased pay, surely thats unquestionable.
It’s an unfathomable idea for many to grasp, I know, many drivers get into the swing of things and become oblivious, other than Knowing what there hourly rate is and that’s it, atm to get anywhere near a £30k annual salary, at £11ph your talking working 52.5 paid hours every week, that’s 6 days.
If you could earn the same amount for a maximum of 45hrs being at work, over 5 days, every week, why wouldn’t you, keep in mind that 52.5hrs is excluding break time.
Oh! and I can guarantee you if theres an acceleration of more people getting to pick a rota that generally signifies that they’ve moved up the hierarchy because drivers continue to leave.
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It'll be intriguing to see if the changes tomorrow have any effect whatsoever to be honest. I've only really looked at the app a couple of times this morning and I've noticed 1s, 2s, 3s and 6s all missing journeys at one point or another and I doubt it's just tracker issues although that happens too. I have noticed training buses a lot this week though so here's hoping that works because the last thing First needs after a change is a lot of cancellations