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First Group: General Discussion

TheGrandWazoo

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18 ex Worcester E300's are due to move in to Potteries before the years out/once the 4 x Streetdecks (enter service) & 9 x new Streetlites (are deliviered) That will remove a large chunk of the 30!

Hi Winston

Surprised you've not shared this from the WM buses website that you're a poster on. Supposed to be the fleet in Potteries as from Jan

Solo: 53041/043/058-060/063/063, 53118-120/122-124, 53155, 53207-209, 53405, 53828-830;
Dart: 41493-502/512/514/520-522/540, 42552-554, 42892-894, 43875-877;
Scania L94: 65705/706/727-733;
Scania OmniCity: 65001-005/026/027/033-042;
E300: 67601-604/631-641;
B7L: 66309-314;
B7RLE: 66838-841/843/845/849/851/853/962-964;
StreetLite Max: 63096-100/171-179/250;
B7TL: 32053-057/075-080, 32627/630/632-635/639, 37146/156-160.

Clearly, a few changes since this was posted as there were supposed to be 7 B7Ls heading to Leicester with 6 B7TLs heading the other way
 
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Robertj21a

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Hi Winston

Surprised you've not shared this from the WM buses website that you're a poster on. Supposed to be the fleet in Potteries as from Jan

Solo: 53041/043/058-060/063/063, 53118-120/122-124, 53155, 53207-209, 53405, 53828-830;
Dart: 41493-502/512/514/520-522/540, 42552-554, 42892-894, 43875-877;
Scania L94: 65705/706/727-733;
Scania OmniCity: 65001-005/026/027/033-042;
E300: 67601-604/631-641;
B7L: 66309-314;
B7RLE: 66838-841/843/845/849/851/853/962-964;
StreetLite Max: 63096-100/171-179/250;
B7TL: 32053-057/075-080, 32627/630/632-635/639, 37146/156-160.

Clearly, a few changes since this was posted as there were supposed to be 7 B7Ls heading to Leicester with 6 B7TLs heading the other way


66312 is believed to now be in Leicester. Aren't 32075/76 are in Bristol ?
 

the101

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Alright smart arse - some of us don't have very good English GCSEs!

The ultimate source is First itself, as the list posted comes from a projected fleetlist that was issued at the Leicester open day about a month ago.

However, it is First, so as we can see, nothing is ever set in stone. The interesting bit is that Leicester are due another 29 StreetDecks next year (this from the Regional MD, so I would regard it as accurate), which would mean that a further windfall of cascaded 'deckers could come Potteries' way.
 

83G/84D

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Former Slough Scania L94's 65724 - 6 seen in Weymouth depot yesterday.
 
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pompeyfan

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When I saw fleet movement documents back in late August these scania's were supposedly destined for Hoeford along with the Citaros, that said the document also made no mention of the 3 E200s that have turned up at Hilsea, so clearly plans can and do change.... Supposedly there is a 4th E200 due to Portsmouth, but with 44507 still in Slough I'm not sure which the 4th will be.
 

baza585

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When I saw fleet movement documents back in late August these scania's were supposedly destined for Hoeford along with the Citaros, that said the document also made no mention of the 3 E200s that have turned up at Hilsea, so clearly plans can and do change.... Supposedly there is a 4th E200 due to Portsmouth, but with 44507 still in Slough I'm not sure which the 4th will be.

I'm expecting the Scanias to end up in Yeovil for the 58/A, or possibly to release 3 B7RLEs from Weymouth to Yeovil. This would complete the transformation of Yeovil to a very respectable mid life fleet.

Are 63190-2 still at Hilsea or are the 3 E200s replacements for these?
 

pompeyfan

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63190-2 were direct replacements for 47419-21 which were sent to Southampton to be used on their CityRed:10 service. The enviro's are to start weeding out non DDA darts, of which at last count there were 12 remaining.

42125, 42130, 42136-40/42, 40827, 42232 (or 34, one has been W/D though) 40957 and 42728 if you were interested. It's expected a mix of Hoefords optares and streetlites will fill the void.
 

Lrd

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Supposedly there is a 4th E200 due to Portsmouth, but with 44507 still in Slough I'm not sure which the 4th will be.
We still have 44509 in Southampton so you may get her. We've regained 66156 and 66157 from Hoeford for the new E1/E2 routes.

We have a severe lack of white buses now, with red buses appearing on white routes on a daily basis.
 
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pompeyfan

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We still have 44509 in Southampton so you may get her. We've regained 66156 and 66157 from Hoeford for the new E1/E2 routes.

We have a severe lack of white buses now, with red buses appearing on white routes on a daily basis.

We've had it since Friday :)
 

winston270twm

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Hi Winston

Surprised you've not shared this from the WM buses website that you're a poster on. Supposed to be the fleet in Potteries as from Jan

Solo: 53041/043/058-060/063/063, 53118-120/122-124, 53155, 53207-209, 53405, 53828-830;
Dart: 41493-502/512/514/520-522/540, 42552-554, 42892-894, 43875-877;
Scania L94: 65705/706/727-733;
Scania OmniCity: 65001-005/026/027/033-042;
E300: 67601-604/631-641;
B7L: 66309-314;
B7RLE: 66838-841/843/845/849/851/853/962-964;
StreetLite Max: 63096-100/171-179/250;
B7TL: 32053-057/075-080, 32627/630/632-635/639, 37146/156-160.

Clearly, a few changes since this was posted as there were supposed to be 7 B7Ls heading to Leicester with 6 B7TLs heading the other way

Hi TGW,

I help run the WM Bus forum, I never thought to be honest and thought yourself & a few others off here viewed the WM Bus forum were aware of what was due at Potteries. I'd only only had a quick glance at that planned future fleet myself & hadn't clocked that Potteries are now due 15 x E300's rather than the 18 previously suggested (possibly from Midlandred.net)
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Hi TGW,

I help run the WM Bus forum, I never thought to be honest and thought yourself & a few others off here viewed the WM Bus forum were aware of what was due at Potteries. I'd only only had a quick glance at that planned future fleet myself & hadn't clocked that Potteries are now due 15 x E300's rather than the 18 previously suggested (possibly from Midlandred.net)

I know you're one of the guys on there - that's why I was surprised!! :D

Not certain there are 30 odd vehicles to clear out (I think a number of vehicles are withdrawn but not shown as such on various websites/fleet lists). It'll all be fine I suspect and they can relax til next year :cake:
 

winston270twm

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I know you're one of the guys on there - that's why I was surprised!! :D

Not certain there are 30 odd vehicles to clear out (I think a number of vehicles are withdrawn but not shown as such on various websites/fleet lists). It'll all be fine I suspect and they can relax til next year :cake:

TGW,

To be honest, I haven't been so active posting on here of late. I suspect knowing First plans will still be chnaging right up to the last minute....

At least with Potteries they saw sense to re-instate a depot / outstation at Newcastle
 

Robertj21a

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TGW,

To be honest, I haven't been so active posting on here of late. I suspect knowing First plans will still be chnaging right up to the last minute....

At least with Potteries they saw sense to re-instate a depot / outstation at Newcastle

I've been aware of various plans within First Group but have to say that few have ended up in their final form as they were supposedly intended. Even those that are 'finalised' have a habit of then being changed again when actually implemented. Although this is often understandable it may also give out the view that their plans are not as thoroughly thought through as some other operators.
 

THarris123

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Has anyone else notice the unhappy tone of people in this thread.

Could be Grandwazoos correction technique, but he's only doing that out of good faith. Other than that seems perfectly fine to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've been aware of various plans within First Group but have to say that few have ended up in their final form as they were supposedly intended. Even those that are 'finalised' have a habit of then being changed again when actually implemented. Although this is often understandable it may also give out the view that their plans are not as thoroughly thought through as some other operators.

Thought what thought? The perfect example is the new fleet order - beginning of the year we were expecting the 376 (wells/bristol) to go every 20 mins and have new Streetlite Maxs, now we're getting the first deckers for that service for 30/40 years and they supposedly haven't even tested whether deckers can go along the route - very little thought as usual!!
 

winston270twm

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I've been aware of various plans within First Group but have to say that few have ended up in their final form as they were supposedly intended. Even those that are 'finalised' have a habit of then being changed again when actually implemented. Although this is often understandable it may also give out the view that their plans are not as thoroughly thought through as some other operators.

Another reason I didn't post as I seem to remeber previously getting picked up for copying/pasting something from another forum on here.

I should imagine the proposed future fleet list shouldn't change drasitcally as it ultimately came from First Midlands MD. That said, it was always suggested 18 x E300's were to go in to Potteries, that has since dropped to 15 which I must admit I never clocked
 

Robertj21a

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I should imagine the proposed future fleet list shouldn't change drasitcally as it ultimately came from First Midlands MD. That said, it was always suggested 18 x E300's were to go in to Potteries, that has since dropped to 15 which I must admit I never clocked

Unfortunately, there have been quite a few versions of that same future fleet list !
 

90sWereBetter

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Norwich's batch of Streetlite Max are now on their way from the Wright factory, and should be arriving in the next week or so. The end is nigh for the B7L single deckers at Norwich, transfers of them down to the South West should intensify in the next few weeks. Other than that, the refurb program for the President deckers is continuing, the Orange line fleet being tackled now that the Purple and Turquoise lines are complete.

All of the Jersey Darts are still in service in Lowestoft, but it is still expected that they'll end up in Cornwall soon. Incredibly, 43466 (R466CAH) still solders on in service, almost a year since the other R-reg Darts were withdrawn. I think someone is planning to preserve this one.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Nope, is there one ?

The only unhappy tone is a) from Overthewater - when he discovers that Musselburgh depot still hasn't closed ;) and b) from avowed First haters that seem to think following a bus on a Friday and using them on their holidays offers some sort of detailed critique.

I said after the 2012/3 reorganisation of UK Bus that the worst of the divestment had been done but that there would be ups and downs as they got the business sorted out. I think I intimated as much as poss that I thought Plymouth would have to go eventually. Some I suspected were weak and might go have stayed and a couple I wouldn't have predicted have gone (e.g. Bracknell).

The naysayers of First have to understand that there is always a timelag in steering the proverbial supertanker. It took about 10 years for Moir to royally cock it up - the idea that Tim and Giles would sort it out in 18 months was unrealistic. However, the clearing of the decks is getting there in terms of fleet replacement, driven by DDA compliance of course. Come Jan 2016, a lot of stuff from 1998-2000 will disappear, and that's better than we've seen for a long time. In fact, by the end of this year, Stagecoach will have more Olympians left in service than First - who'd have thought that :?

There will be some more cuts at some point but you'll see that with many firms as the cuts to public funding become more evident.

Also, the whining about First saying one thing about vehicle orders and then doing another. Firstly, things change - Western Greyhound's failure?? It has always been the case - whether it be winning new business and diverting fleet, or indeed, downsizing. More stupid would be to carry on and not respond to changing circumstances, or to not admit that plan A was incorrect. Secondly, First publish their orders and share it with enthusiasts/employees and things will change - do they do so and risk the wrath of enthusiasts who complain when plans change, or do they not publish and then get accused of secrecy? Can't win - NOTE: Stagecoach have a main order and a supplementary order so the alterations are less obvious but they do happen!

I look at my local First subsidiary and it's a mixed bag in some respects. Yes, some retrenchment on services especially where competition has eaten away and too many vehicles still in very off white and tatty interiors. However, a concerted effort to focus the business on the best routes and a lot of new vehicles to correct years of underinvestment. Oh, and a much more sensible approach to fares and getting bums on seats. :D

However, I think some people would prefer to still believe that it was all still bad old First. Well, Moir is now on his farm and dealing with bulls**t and thank god he's gone; the tanker is well on a new course and whilst there will be future headwinds, the worst of the bad stuff is hopefully overcome.
 

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