First Group: General Discussion

[overthewater]

You forgot the word YET with that depot

But to be fair FSE hasn't been totally sorted out, and shouldn't be taken into account as apart of the the overall picture when taking about First bus, especial since the undertakings are still be dealt with - as seen a few pages back.

I know the supertanker is now full steam ahead in the right direction, hence the reason were not talking about Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, southampton etc. but the weakest link is always how any company is believe to operate like.

Did First publish their orders and share it with enthusiasts/employees this year? I remember there was alot of talk over this and we were left waiting, I only found out where

Aren't nearly all the Olympians used by Stagecoach operate on School contracts?

As a portaged elsewhere by people; hear is a view of FSE new livery.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brucekitchener/22098825300/

 

[KendalKing]

Aren't nearly all the Olympians used by Stagecoach operate on School contracts?

My local Stagecoach routes in Carnforth, are nearly always operated by Olympians.

The only unhappy tone is a) from Overthewater - when he discovers that Musselburgh depot still hasn't closed and b) from avowed First haters that seem to think following a bus on a Friday and using them on their holidays offers some sort of detailed critique.

These First hater's, are easily identifiable not only on here, but also facebook!, They normally make a song and dance, when a First Bus is involve in an accident, yet when a Stagecoach bus is involve in an accident, they keep very quite.

Also, the whining about First saying one thing about vehicle orders and then doing another. Firstly, things change - Western Greyhound's failure?? It has always been the case - whether it be winning new business and diverting fleet, or indeed, downsizing. More stupid would be to carry on and not respond to changing circumstances,

As I have said before, the Management and Engineering staff at First Kernow, deserved a bonus, for get so many buses ready at such short notice following the demise of Western Greyhound.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You forgot the word YET with that depot

But to be fair FSE hasn't been totally sorted out, and shouldn't be taken into account as apart of the the overall picture when taking about First bus, especial since the undertakings are still be dealt with - as seen a few pages back.

I know the supertanker is now full steam ahead in the right direction, hence the reason were not talking about Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, southampton etc. but the weakest link is always how any company is believe to operate like.

Did First publish their orders and share it with enthusiasts/employees this year? I remember there was alot of talk over this and we were left waiting, I only found out where

Aren't nearly all the Olympians used by Stagecoach operate on School contracts?

As a portaged elsewhere by people; hear is a view of FSE new livery.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brucekitchener/22098825300/

New orders per Opco were shared with employees and BBP had it for their handbook.

As for Stagey Olympians, you can still catch them in Kent and Northants where services are tied into school workings etc. Remember, many of First's are in Cornwall where they operate College workings and the cull will cut those numbers further and so operation on regular service will be rare.

Use of the word yet..... I'm in my forties, am 5'8 but with ambitions to be 6 feet tall. I just haven't got there YET

 

[THarris123]

You forgot the word YET with that depot

But to be fair FSE hasn't been totally sorted out, and shouldn't be taken into account as apart of the the overall picture when taking about First bus, especial since the undertakings are still be dealt with - as seen a few pages back.

I know the supertanker is now full steam ahead in the right direction, hence the reason were not talking about Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, southampton etc. but the weakest link is always how any company is believe to operate like.

Did First publish their orders and share it with enthusiasts/employees this year? I remember there was alot of talk over this and we were left waiting, I only found out where

Aren't nearly all the Olympians used by Stagecoach operate on School contracts?

As a portaged elsewhere by people; hear is a view of FSE new livery.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brucekitchener/22098825300/

Is that the same livery on the 65 plate Streetlites?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only unhappy tone is a) from Overthewater - when he discovers that Musselburgh depot still hasn't closed and b) from avowed First haters that seem to think following a bus on a Friday and using them on their holidays offers some sort of detailed critique.

I said after the 2012/3 reorganisation of UK Bus that the worst of the divestment had been done but that there would be ups and downs as they got the business sorted out. I think I intimated as much as poss that I thought Plymouth would have to go eventually. Some I suspected were weak and might go have stayed and a couple I wouldn't have predicted have gone (e.g. Bracknell).

The naysayers of First have to understand that there is always a timelag in steering the proverbial supertanker. It took about 10 years for Moir to royally cock it up - the idea that Tim and Giles would sort it out in 18 months was unrealistic. However, the clearing of the decks is getting there in terms of fleet replacement, driven by DDA compliance of course. Come Jan 2016, a lot of stuff from 1998-2000 will disappear, and that's better than we've seen for a long time. In fact, by the end of this year, Stagecoach will have more Olympians left in service than First - who'd have thought that :?

There will be some more cuts at some point but you'll see that with many firms as the cuts to public funding become more evident.

Also, the whining about First saying one thing about vehicle orders and then doing another. Firstly, things change - Western Greyhound's failure?? It has always been the case - whether it be winning new business and diverting fleet, or indeed, downsizing. More stupid would be to carry on and not respond to changing circumstances, or to not admit that plan A was incorrect. Secondly, First publish their orders and share it with enthusiasts/employees and things will change - do they do so and risk the wrath of enthusiasts who complain when plans change, or do they not publish and then get accused of secrecy? Can't win - NOTE: Stagecoach have a main order and a supplementary order so the alterations are less obvious but they do happen!

I look at my local First subsidiary and it's a mixed bag in some respects. Yes, some retrenchment on services especially where competition has eaten away and too many vehicles still in very off white and tatty interiors. However, a concerted effort to focus the business on the best routes and a lot of new vehicles to correct years of underinvestment. Oh, and a much more sensible approach to fares and getting bums on seats.

However, I think some people would prefer to still believe that it was all still bad old First. Well, Moir is now on his farm and dealing with bulls**t and thank god he's gone; the tanker is well on a new course and whilst there will be future headwinds, the worst of the bad stuff is hopefully overcome.

I think people think that I believe that First are worse off than the old days as I complain a lot about the poor management in Bristol, etc, but I only started using First buses on a regular basis in 2010 and only took an enthusiastic look at First from 2012/13ish. I don't compare First to what it was previously as I don't know what it was like. I, like many other enthusiasts on here, compare First to other companies, big and small, and other subsidiaries, not necessarily look back at what they were like in the past. I've only ever been on 2 journeys on an Arriva bus (in Liverpool) and only ever spent 1 week on Go Ahead buses in Isle of Wight, so the main comparison, as a corporate business of Firsts size, that I look at is Stagecoach, of which First are lacking behind considerably and even you've said above that First have a different approach to making orders - why should they? Why not have a supplementary order as well just in case things go wrong - the simple fact is that First don't put the necessary thought into what will happen if things don't go the way they want it to and make changes everywhere all the time, which isn't exactly improving their reputation nationwide. I also compare First with the smaller operators around our region and can easily say that although they're considerably smaller, other operators (excluding Wessex and Bugler) are in better shape and have better services in a lot of cases. I also try to compare the First subsidiaries. After viewing Scotland, Hampshire, Dorset, Somerset and Cornwall, I feel that Bristol and Avon are really behind on certain aspects, but then there's other bits which I feel much more at home with in Bristol and feel that Bristol really know what they're doing. Many enthusiasts, both on here and other forums take a similar sort of look as me and are just comparing parts of First that they know of or have experienced to other companies or other subsidiaries that they know better, they don't tend to look at what First was before as much as you seem to believe. I think you're having a bit of a big bite at many of us at the moment and I can sort of see where overthewater is coming from with the unhappy approach. We're only comparing what we've seen elsewhere and voicing our opinions as to what direction we think First should take. We don't have as much knowledge as you on all areas of each bus company as it would appear.

 

[AB93]

Aren't nearly all the Olympians used by Stagecoach operate on School contracts?

My local Stagecoach routes in Carnforth, are nearly always operated by Olympians.

You should try Aldershot depot - Olympians are a very regular feature on their Stagecoach Gold route 1!

 

[overthewater]

You should try Aldershot depot - Olympians are a very regular feature on their Stagecoach Gold route 1!

To same people that is Gold

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think people think that I believe that First are worse off than the old days as I complain a lot about the poor management in Bristol, etc, but I only started using First buses on a regular basis in 2010 and only took an enthusiastic look at First from 2012/13ish. I don't compare First to what it was previously as I don't know what it was like. I, like many other enthusiasts on here, compare First to other companies, big and small, and other subsidiaries, not necessarily look back at what they were like in the past. I've only ever been on 2 journeys on an Arriva bus (in Liverpool) and only ever spent 1 week on Go Ahead buses in Isle of Wight, so the main comparison, as a corporate business of Firsts size, that I look at is Stagecoach, of which First are lacking behind considerably and even you've said above that First have a different approach to making orders - why should they? Why not have a supplementary order as well just in case things go wrong - the simple fact is that First don't put the necessary thought into what will happen if things don't go the way they want it to and make changes everywhere all the time, which isn't exactly improving their reputation nationwide. I also compare First with the smaller operators around our region and can easily say that although they're considerably smaller, other operators (excluding Wessex and Bugler) are in better shape and have better services in a lot of cases. I also try to compare the First subsidiaries. After viewing Scotland, Hampshire, Dorset, Somerset and Cornwall, I feel that Bristol and Avon are really behind on certain aspects, but then there's other bits which I feel much more at home with in Bristol and feel that Bristol really know what they're doing. Many enthusiasts, both on here and other forums take a similar sort of look as me and are just comparing parts of First that they know of or have experienced to other companies or other subsidiaries that they know better, they don't tend to look at what First was before as much as you seem to believe. I think you're having a bit of a big bite at many of us at the moment and I can sort of see where overthewater is coming from with the unhappy approach. We're only comparing what we've seen elsewhere and voicing our opinions as to what direction we think First should take. We don't have as much knowledge as you on all areas of each bus company as it would appear.

Not having a big bite at "many of us" - I had a jocular dig at OTW and his frequent predictions ref: Musselburgh depot

The only serious issue I've had is with Surreyman who admits his hatred of First; he doesn't have a balanced view. My point was that as he doesn't use them (apart from on holiday) how valid and extensive are his comparisons. He's said his piece, I've said mine, that's it. I've said nothing about your views and don't intend to. Advise you look through the thread and there's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing from different quarters especially regarding the Potteries and the most recent changes.

As for Stagecoach leading the way, yes they do but not because of the way they structure their orders or have long bus services. The reason they've done so well is because of a myriad of different things. Firstly, a clear objective in keeping costs down, enabling fares to be lower (see TAS figures). They were going for MAN 18.220s with much lower MPGs and full life costs whilst First were choosing B7Ls. Secondly, they didn't do daft things like FTR. Thirdly, understanding why people use coaches - compare Megabus with Greyhound! Also, not paying over the odds for stuff like Cawlett - £17m (?) to buy what is BoS, First Wessex and North Devon..... I don't like Souter's politics or homophobia but I recognise he's a bloody good bus(iness)man.

KendalKing has noted the lack of consistency that accompanies First. First are criticised (and rightly so at times) but they close a depot because of tender losses (Bracknell) and people go into a frenzy. Stagecoach do it (Cowdenbeath) and it barely rates a mention
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To same people that is Gold

To be fair, the Gold routes that I regularly see (SWest 66/94, SOx S1/2/3/5 and SMids X4 and X46) are usually fairly decent in keeping the Gold standard (though the Mids ones often sneak off onto other work)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I have said before, the Management and Engineering staff at First Kernow, deserved a bonus, for get so many buses ready at such short notice following the demise of Western Greyhound.

Indeed and, by the same token, the same can be said of Stagecoach in getting their Plymouth operation sorted out. Of course, they too have had to divert vehicles (14 plate e200s were destined elsewhere) and there's additional changes for the new year - sure Mr Bonwick knows the full story

 

[THarris123]

Not having a big bite at "many of us" - I had a jocular dig at OTW and his frequent predictions ref: Musselburgh depot

The only serious issue I've had is with Surreyman who admits his hatred of First; he doesn't have a balanced view. My point was that as he doesn't use them (apart from on holiday) how valid and extensive are his comparisons. He's said his piece, I've said mine, that's it. I've said nothing about your views and don't intend to. Advise you look through the thread and there's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing from different quarters especially regarding the Potteries and the most recent changes.

As for Stagecoach leading the way, yes they do but not because of the way they structure their orders or have long bus services. The reason they've done so well is because of a myriad of different things. Firstly, a clear objective in keeping costs down, enabling fares to be lower (see TAS figures). They were going for MAN 18.220s with much lower MPGs and full life costs whilst First were choosing B7Ls. Secondly, they didn't do daft things like FTR. Thirdly, understanding why people use coaches - compare Megabus with Greyhound! Also, not paying over the odds for stuff like Cawlett - £17m (?) to buy what is BoS, First Wessex and North Devon..... I don't like Souter's politics or homophobia but I recognise he's a bloody good bus(iness)man.

KendalKing has noted the lack of consistency that accompanies First. First are criticised (and rightly so at times) but they close a depot because of tender losses (Bracknell) and people go into a frenzy. Stagecoach do it (Cowdenbeath) and it barely rates a mention
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


To be fair, the Gold routes that I regularly see (SWest 66/94, SOx S1/2/3/5 and SMids X4 and X46) are usually fairly decent in keeping the Gold standard (though the Mids ones often sneak off onto other work)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed and, by the same token, the same can be said of Stagecoach in getting their Plymouth operation sorted out. Of course, they too have had to divert vehicles (14 plate e200s were destined elsewhere) and there's additional changes for the new year - sure Mr Bonwick knows the full story

Ok so maybe I was exaggerating a bit. Fair enough.

 

[ChrisPJ]

A lot of folk don't have faith that First will stick at the latest bright idea. Unlike some of the other big transport firms. Something like Taunton for example. Great image, proper effort, but the vehicle side is woeful. Stagecoach would have brought in a big batch of new fleet in the fresh branding and BAM overnight change. If the territory doesn't warrant that sort of investment then the relaunch was the wrong thing to do.

The rivals don't always get it right though. What the hell is Arriva playing at with Yorkshire Tiger?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A lot of folk don't have faith that First will stick at the latest bright idea. Unlike some of the other big transport firms. Something like Taunton for example. Great image, proper effort, but the vehicle side is woeful. Stagecoach would have brought in a big batch of new fleet in the fresh branding and BAM overnight change. If the territory doesn't warrant that sort of investment then the relaunch was the wrong thing to do.

The rivals don't always get it right though. What the hell is Arriva playing at with Yorkshire Tiger?

Interesting that you mention Arriva. Julian Peddle does an opinion piece in Buses that is interesting. Complimentary on Stagecoach, First being hamstrung by margin pressure/debt pile, but that Arriva are in a state of torpor. Also, what is Arriva's strategy - Yorkshire Tiger is one thing but the purchase of Wardle/D&G before then divesting it just a few short years later. Again, if that were First, there would be all manner of teeth gnashing.

As for Buses of Somerset, Stagecoach would do the new broom drafting in of new vehicles. However, it is territory that is very thin and historically has struggled by on the odd new vehicle, astute secondhand purchases and a lot of elderly fleet.

Let's not lose sight of the advances in Somerset. Firstly, they're just about DDA compliant for 2016 so that's the first hurdle. The image is massively better; most of the fleet is now green and the only fleet that isn't are the Olympians and a few short term loans (save the odd Trident?) and signage on premises and bus stop flags are being done. More importantly, it's stopped haemorrhaging cash. Instead, they've (with Crosville) got preferred bidder status for the EDF work and they've got the Taunton P&R. There are obviously a number of downsides - the cuts in March were quite notable and the continued presence of Webberbus restricts what they can do. Also, SCC have been one of the council's who have continually cut support for services so income will be down. The fleet does have a older profile (a lot is 1999-2002 vintage) and the newest fleet (save the leased P&R fleet) is 6 years old. Nonetheless, the relaunch has probably saved them the cost of writing off more from the balance sheet and given them a platform for the EDF work. Some newer fleet would be nice to see down there but depends how the business is performing.

Fair comment on the lack of faith in First historically. Concepts such as Greyhound and FTR were barking - why have an artic that costs more to run in terms of purchase, ongoing fuel and maintenance, needs a two person crew and carries no more than a standard e300?

 

[overthewater]

Isnt Arriva going to get sold off?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Isnt Arriva going to get sold off?

Not quite

"Deutsche Bahn (DB) has announced it is open to the idea of making a partial sale of Arriva. Commenting on this, DB Chief Executive, Dr Grube, said, ‘We are keeping open the option of a partial privatisation of DB Arriva und DB Schenker Logistics in order to utilise growth potential on the international markets as effectively as possible. Nothing has been decided here yet. And I would like to make it perfectly clear that we are not considering selling off these companies. On the contrary, we will retain business management control of both DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics.’

The possibility of partially privatising Arriva was announced during a press conference following the release of DB’s first half annual results. The company announced that Arriva, as well as its DB Schenker Logistics business, could be partially privatised as part of an extensive restructuring program to make the Group fit for the future. DB acquired Arriva in 2010."

Basically, it's 100% publicly owned at the moment and they want to sell a share of the business to help reduce their debt pile.

 

[baza585]

Interesting that you mention Arriva. Julian Peddle does an opinion piece in Buses that is interesting. Complimentary on Stagecoach, First being hamstrung by margin pressure/debt pile, but that Arriva are in a state of torpor. Also, what is Arriva's strategy - Yorkshire Tiger is one thing but the purchase of Wardle/D&G before then divesting it just a few short years later. Again, if that were First, there would be all manner of teeth gnashing.

Indeed. In the eyes of some folk, First can do no right and Souter can do no wrong - it ain't as simple as that.

As for Buses of Somerset, Stagecoach would do the new broom drafting in of new vehicles. However, it is territory that is very thin and historically has struggled by on the odd new vehicle, astute secondhand purchases and a lot of elderly fleet.

I disagree - that territory would surely not support the depreciation on new kit - Stagecoach may have found it easier to find good modern midlife Darts/E200s to put in there (which is what would be most suitable) but I am not convinced they would have put new stock in. I do think FSW management has done a sterling job on BoS - it isn't a silk purse but it is not the sows ear it once was, despite Somerset CC's best efforts. The B6s are not ideal but the territory is reasonably flat and I'm sure they will be replaced by something nicer in due course after the DDA deadline.

Fair comment on the lack of faith in First historically. Concepts such as Greyhound and FTR were barking - why have an artic that costs more to run in terms of purchase, ongoing fuel and maintenance, needs a two person crew and carries no more than a standard e300?

I have yet to meet anyone (inside or outside the industry) who thinks the ftr was anything other than a very stupid idea. It speaks volumes of the atmosphere within First under Lochhead that no-one was able to tell the Emperor about his new clothes.........

 

[Robertj21a]

I have yet to meet anyone (inside or outside the industry) who thinks the ftr was anything other than a very stupid idea. It speaks volumes of the atmosphere within First under Lochhead that no-one was able to tell the Emperor about his new clothes.........

A bit like Boris and the 'New Routemaster.

 

[overthewater]

Another quick Question How often does Giles visit the depots etc? from what I'm lead to believe souter and now his replacement make regular check up on the depots, just to keep an eye on them. So does First do the same.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed. In the eyes of some folk, First can do no right and Souter can do no wrong - it ain't as simple as that.



I disagree - that territory would surely not support the depreciation on new kit - Stagecoach may have found it easier to find good modern midlife Darts/E200s to put in there (which is what would be most suitable) but I am not convinced they would have put new stock in. I do think FSW management has done a sterling job on BoS - it isn't a silk purse but it is not the sows ear it once was, despite Somerset CC's best efforts. The B6s are not ideal but the territory is reasonably flat and I'm sure they will be replaced by something nicer in due course after the DDA deadline.



I have yet to meet anyone (inside or outside the industry) who thinks the ftr was anything other than a very stupid idea. It speaks volumes of the atmosphere within First under Lochhead that no-one was able to tell the Emperor about his new clothes.........

I agree with everything apart from where you disagreed with me...

Stagecoach have traditionally allocated some new fleet into operations they've acquired. More of a "hearts and minds" thing and improve morale rather than a hard headed business decision. If, and it is academic, they had bought Somerset when it was being touted in 2012, they could probably have whacked in 5 e200s for the Wellington service, as an example.

That said, I agree with everything else you say and that the pragmatic view is that some midlife cascading is most likely and appropriate. Also, the B6s are reasonably suited to the terrain (if not my a***cheeks). I'd love to see something better than the Tridents on the 21, let alone new fleet elsewhere, but that just isn't likely.

I'm sure that the FSW team will be looking at how they develop things and I too take my hat off to them. They may well have done more with BoS had they not also had the competing issues of dealing with a clearly ailing WGL (they had to get in there before someone else did really), the EDF project with Crosville, and the sale of Plymouth as well as running the day job.

 

[83G/84D]

Former Slough Scania L94's 65724 - 6 seen in Weymouth depot yesterday.

All three still present at Weymouth this afternoon. 65724 inside having it's X74 branding removed whilst the others were outside in as arrived condition.

36005 ventured up to Portland today on service 1, normally a Streetlite or Dart on this I think.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Interesting that you mention Arriva. Julian Peddle does an opinion piece in Buses that is interesting. Complimentary on Stagecoach, First being hamstrung by margin pressure/debt pile, but that Arriva are in a state of torpor. Also, what is Arriva's strategy - Yorkshire Tiger is one thing but the purchase of Wardle/D&G before then divesting it just a few short years later. Again, if that were First, there would be all manner of teeth gnashing.

As for Buses of Somerset, Stagecoach would do the new broom drafting in of new vehicles. However, it is territory that is very thin and historically has struggled by on the odd new vehicle, astute secondhand purchases and a lot of elderly fleet.

Let's not lose sight of the advances in Somerset. Firstly, they're just about DDA compliant for 2016 so that's the first hurdle. The image is massively better; most of the fleet is now green and the only fleet that isn't are the Olympians and a few short term loans (save the odd Trident?) and signage on premises and bus stop flags are being done. More importantly, it's stopped haemorrhaging cash. Instead, they've (with Crosville) got preferred bidder status for the EDF work and they've got the Taunton P&R. There are obviously a number of downsides - the cuts in March were quite notable and the continued presence of Webberbus restricts what they can do. Also, SCC have been one of the council's who have continually cut support for services so income will be down. The fleet does have a older profile (a lot is 1999-2002 vintage) and the newest fleet (save the leased P&R fleet) is 6 years old. Nonetheless, the relaunch has probably saved them the cost of writing off more from the balance sheet and given them a platform for the EDF work. Some newer fleet would be nice to see down there but depends how the business is performing.

Fair comment on the lack of faith in First historically. Concepts such as Greyhound and FTR were barking - why have an artic that costs more to run in terms of purchase, ongoing fuel and maintenance, needs a two person crew and carries no more than a standard e300?

The whole FTR concept seemed barmy then and no less so now. To be fair they were intended to be OPO but the crummy self serve machines were the death of that. I always wondered how long they were writing down those vehicles for. Interesting that they let one go with the Luton airport shuttle after only a few years of light use.

I thought Greyhound deserved to succeed though.

 

[Robertj21a]

I thought Greyhound deserved to succeed though.

It seemed to suffer the usual First Group approach of ----Bright Idea ------Advertised --------Introduced --------Got bored/disinterested -------Run it down -----Kill it off.

 

[Lrd]

Another quick Question How often does Giles visit the depots etc? from what I'm lead to believe souter and now his replacement make regular check up on the depots, just to keep an eye on them. So does First do the same.

Been there for almost a year and never seen him or heard he was down.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It seemed to suffer the usual First Group approach of ----Bright Idea ------Advertised --------Introduced --------Got bored/disinterested -------Run it down -----Kill it off.

Greyhound was an interesting concept but fundamentally flawed IMO. Coach travel is price sensitive so unlikely to be able to charge a premium price whilst the coaches had 8 fewer seats so lower revenue but the same costs.

Souter understood that (Christ, it's where he cut his teeth) while Moir didn't.

 

[overthewater]

Greyhound was an interesting concept but fundamentally flawed IMO. Coach travel is price sensitive so unlikely to be able to charge a premium price whilst the coaches had 8 fewer seats so lower revenue but the same costs.

Souter understood that (Christ, it's where he cut his teeth) while Moir didn't.

How does Go ahead managed the premium service on the London to Oxford service?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How does Go ahead managed the premium service on the London to Oxford service?

Because the rail service is not direct.

 

[pompeyfan]

Been there for almost a year and never seen him or heard he was down.

The last time he was down this way (as far as I know) was for the launch of The Star, 2 years ago.

 

[ChrisPJ]

And on the subject of Musselburgh depot, which is surely on borrowed time, when was the last time any brand new buses were placed in service there?

 

[overthewater]

The last time he was down this way (as far as I know) was for the launch of The Star, 2 years ago.

You would think he would turn up at least once a year.

And on the subject of Musselburgh depot, which is surely on borrowed time, when was the last time any brand new buses were placed in service there?

You mean brand new? never been used by anyone else ever? just out the factory?

Crumbs I cant think that ever happen this side of the millennium, even the 52 plates were second hand. Dalkieth got brand new stock for the 86, but I don't remember muss getting anything.

 

[the101]

It seemed to suffer the usual First Group approach of ----Bright Idea ------Advertised --------Introduced --------Got bored/disinterested -------Run it down -----Kill it off.

First are currently at the fourth stage of that logical progression with Potteries' colour-coded routes.

They were introduced with fanfare last summer (and at substantial cost, if rumours about Ray Stenning's rates are to be believed) with the wholesale rebrand of one batch of services. This was followed by the StreetLites, which continued the colour-coded theory, and a handful of other repaints into the scheme (including bizzarely a number of non-DDA Solos, only one of which remains in use). Since then? Nothing. Nada.

Instead the Potteries fleet remains overrun with life-expired, tatty-looking junk still in faded/worn/mismatched Barbie livery complete with numerous 'battle scars', fuel stains from the diesel filler and out-of-date adverts plugging last year's pantomime season. In fact I can't think of any repaints whatsoever having been carried out in 2015, despite this major problem with presentation, and two (at least) of the original colour-coded vehicles have returned to Leicester, replaced by another pair of worn out B7TLs complete with threadbare seating and faded Barbie colours. Failures-to-run through vehicle shortages are not uncommon, yet a pair of reasonably modern Volvos have sat VOR for around a year awaiting new engines.

Couple that with a failed network relaunch in 2014 and haemorrhaging passenger numbers over the last five years... what does the future hold, I wonder?

 

[Robertj21a]

Potteries should have at least 3 Volvo B7TL/ALX400 from Leicester by now, with a 4th due. I'm told that, in exchange, there are at least 3 (66311-313) of your 'Cherry' fronts now in Leicester - albeit they have had to now have the fronts repainted fuchsia, in line with the new livery at Leicester !.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

And here come Glasgow's E200 MMC's...

Credit to Gordon Scott.

44652
44653
44653 (2)

 

[d1672]

Hi Folks,

These MMC's look very smart in this livery. Nice to see.

Thomas