First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[stevenedin]

I’m pretty sure the 68 plates aren’t subject to any funding due to them being straight diesel buses unlike the BYD/ADL electric doubles that Glasgow got. It’s just unfortunately standard from First, cherry picking the good stuff and sending in rubbish to replace before sale. I would have thought some would stay, is there any obligation to the university for the unilink service? I thought there was at one point?

It could’ve been part of the sale that they pay less for it if they got older buses.

 

[Volvodart]

They were funded which was why I posted the message - Scottish Green Bus Fund 8 for 125 buses plus 7 for 25 buses.

 

[PaulMc7]

It could’ve been part of the sale that they pay less for it if they got older buses.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was a condition of the deal given that McGill's have very different strategies to First when it comes to what buses to use on their network. I don't expect many of First's buses to last long without McGill's bringing in others to replace them.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Most buses went to FSE to die anyway. The only decent/modern buses are the 68 plate E400MMCs, the 15/65/66 plate E400MMCs and the E300s which are now 10 years old. I’d have thought the E400MMCs would have all come to Glasgow given the LEZ target and that they are a standard fleet.

McGills will probably start replacing the fleet they do get pretty soon on. Given how they are in other areas I see plenty of electric and possibly Citaros.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Most buses went to FSE to die anyway. The only decent/modern buses are the 68 plate E400MMCs, the 15/65/66 plate E400MMCs and the E300s which are now 10 years old. I’d have thought the E400MMCs would have all come to Glasgow given the LEZ target and that they are a standard fleet.

McGills will probably start replacing the fleet they do get pretty soon on. Given how they are in other areas I see plenty of electric and possibly Citaros.

And the streetlites. About 2/3 of the Scotland East fleet is younger than 10 year old

 

[JumpinTrainz]

And the streetlites. About 2/3 of the Scotland East fleet is younger than 10 year old

Yeah….

 

[Observer]

And the streetlites. About 2/3 of the Scotland East fleet is younger than 10 year old

Problem is those StreetLites have never been enjoyed, and some routes have not been reliable for them.

Still plenty of the Yellow Buses stuff for sale if they want to risk buying more of those buckets though if they're desperate to replace older vehicles.

The priority will no doubt be replacing the older Scanias and Volvos first though. Will just need to see what McGill's have in mind to slowly upgrade the fleet.

 

[317 forever]

Problem is those StreetLites have never been enjoyed, and some routes have not been reliable for them.

Still plenty of the Yellow Buses stuff for sale if they want to risk buying more of those buckets though if they're desperate to replace older vehicles.

The priority will no doubt be replacing the older Scanias and Volvos first though. Will just need to see what McGill's have in mind to slowly upgrade the fleet.

Furthermore, next year Abellio London are replacing some (by then) 7 year old Enviro 200-MMCs with new electric buses. Maybe these buses once sent off lease could be snapped up by McGills Scotland East?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Furthermore, next year Abellio London are replacing some (by then) 7 year old Enviro 200-MMCs with new electric buses. Maybe these buses once sent off lease could be snapped up by McGills Scotland East?

Can't see that happening, most of those E200MMCs would be significantly lower in capacity than the vehicles they're replacing and mechanically would be just as unsuitable (if not more so) than the Streetlites.

I believe McGills have quite a number of B7RLEs in reserve at the moment from both the main Clydeside operations and Dundee, i wouldn't be shocked if we see them moving to Scotland East to oust the L94UBs and the worst of the older B7RLEs. There are also some Geminis at Dundee in storage that could help oust some of the unreliable Omnidekkas, although a few are not in serviceable condition and they are getting on a bit in age.

 

[Surreyman]

Can't see that happening, most of those E200MMCs would be significantly lower in capacity than the vehicles they're replacing and mechanically would be just as unsuitable (if not more so) than the Streetlites.

I believe McGills have quite a number of B7RLEs in reserve at the moment from both the main Clydeside operations and Dundee, i wouldn't be shocked if we see them moving to Scotland East to oust the L94UBs and the worst of the older B7RLEs. There are also some Geminis at Dundee in storage that could help oust some of the unreliable Omnidekkas, although a few are not in serviceable condition and they are getting on a bit in age.

The 14'3'' bridge at Causeway Head presumably means that some/all 'Deckers at Stirling(Bannockburn) have to be low height?
Could the Merc' Citaros be cascaded to either Dundee or the FSE area?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Can't see that happening, most of those E200MMCs would be significantly lower in capacity than the vehicles they're replacing and mechanically would be just as unsuitable (if not more so) than the Streetlites.

Ah, are those the really short E200MMCs? I'm surprised they buy those to be honest, I'd have thought it would be better for flexibility and relocation/resale to just buy standard-length ones.

In what way would they be mechanically unsuitable? Have they got those 4-speed gearboxes and the smaller engine size?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Do you know what Larbert and Bannockburn really need?

Some All-New MCV Evoras for the x36, x37, x38 and maybe even the 59 to Callander (which is well used in the summer months).

The StreetLites based at Larbert are still ok for the town work, however, longer routes like the 5 between Bo’ness & Slamannan aren't greatly busy but they suit heavy Volvos, but “ALL” buses currently at FSE need refurbished, quickly heavily so and many even a mechanical overhaul.

Perhaps some of McGills 200 MMCs from the west coast to join Bannockburn for the likes of the 51 & 52.

Balfron? This is what I’m more curious about, I’m not familiar with Balfron in the slightest.

I know the x10 operates from there and it’s now using 400 MMC vehicles, however, given the type of route and its also quite hilly it would much suit torquey Scania buses like it once had, the Cummins units don’t do great on hills when fitted with Voiths.

Livingston and Bright Bus? First off I know that some of the open-tops at Livingston have been converted to euro6 but even then there all pretty old. Lothian have a much newer and more reliable fleet of tour buses.

“All” of Livingston's Streetlites are in a diabolical state, aesthetically & mechanically and most of their Volvo B7s aren’t much better. By contrast Larbert & Bannockburn actually has a better fleet.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Do you know what Larbert and Bannockburn really need?

Some All-New MCV Evoras for the x36, x37, x38 and maybe even the 59 to Callander (which is well used in the summer months).

The StreetLites based at Larbert are still ok for the town work, however, longer routes like the 5 between Bo’ness & Slamannan aren't greatly busy but they suit heavy Volvos, but “ALL” buses currently at FSE need refurbished, quickly heavily so and many even a mechanical overhaul.

Perhaps some of McGills 200 MMCs from the west coast to join Bannockburn for the likes of the 51 & 52.

Balfron? This is what I’m more curious about, I’m not familiar with Balfron in the slightest.

I know the x10 operates from there and it’s now using 400 MMC vehicles, however, given the type of route and its also quite hilly it would much suit torquey Scania buses like it once had, the Cummins units don’t do great on hills when fitted with Voiths.

Livingston and Bright Bus? First off I know that some of the open-tops at Livingston have been converted to euro6 but even then there all pretty old. Lothian have a much newer and more reliable fleet of tour buses.

“All” of Livingston's Streetlites are in a diabolical state, aesthetically & mechanically and most of their Volvo B7s aren’t much better. By contrast Larbert & Bannockburn actually has a better fleet.

If new vehicles were bought for the Scotland East Edinburgh and Glasgow services, would that free enough E300s to allow removal of all the remaining Urban/Solars?

 

[overthewater]

I doubt they will need to buy new stock for the X36/37; aren't these already Euro6? It's the X38 that will need to get new stock fast as Edinburgh LEZ is starting soon.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I doubt they will need to buy new stock for the X36/37; aren't these already Euro6? It's the X38 that will need to get new stock fast as Edinburgh LEZ is starting soon.

The E300s could be doing with a refurb but other than that they are perfectly suitable. I agree the X38 is in need of suitable singles. I think there’s a low bridge en route so unless they partially re-route they’ll need to consider that.

It would be nice to see FSE get some electric stock. With the LEZ in Edinburgh starting that may kick start some newer stock.

 

[Observer]

I doubt they will need to buy new stock for the X36/37; aren't these already Euro6? It's the X38 that will need to get new stock fast as Edinburgh LEZ is starting soon.

E300s had exhausts upgraded.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

The Clyde coast Citaros must be due to be replaced as some of them are over 10 years old and are missing some modern standards features, such as USB charging.
Could these be cascaded to FSE to shunt out the worst buses?

 

[Observer]

I assume the 68 plate Optares and the 65-plate E400s that weren't part of the original UniLink batch must be going elsewhere as well? No way First is letting them go.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I assume the 68 plate Optares and the 65-plate E400s that weren't part of the original UniLink batch must be going elsewhere as well? No way First is letting them go.

At least one 68 plate optare has already moved.

 

[Surreyman]

E300s had exhausts upgraded.

I may be wrong but recent delvings on line lead me to believe that only 4 E300s have been upgraded to Euro 6?

 

[318266]

The Clyde coast ciatros must be due to be replaced as some of them are over 10 years old and are missing some modern standards features such as usb charging.
Could these be cascaded to FSE to shunt out the worst buses

I do certainly agree that the 64 reg examples (as seen on the 7/904/X7) should be transferred to FSE for use on some express services once the E12s come in for some of those routes.

The comfy interior (with a retrim of course) would certainly freshen the bus up!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

By the looks of things. First are cherry picking their better buses and not including them in the sale. 53860 has moved to Glasgow with the rest of the E400MMC to follow later this week I imagine.

It would be good if the 2015/16 E400MMCs could be moved to Glasgow too.

 

[stevenedin]

By the looks of things. First are cherry picking their better buses and not including them in the sale. 53860 has moved to Glasgow with the rest of the E400MMC to follow later this week I imagine.

It would be good if the 2015/16 E400MMCs could be moved to Glasgow too.

It does make sense for McGill’s to buy it for a cheaper price with older buses and then they just gradually replace them.

 

[LiviCrazy]

It does make sense for McGill’s to buy it for a cheaper price with older buses and then they just gradually replace them.

What do we think McGill’s will do in the longer term. From what I’ve seen of McGill’s they seem to predominantly use single deckers, for West Lothian that won’t be much change from recent years, but Stirling seems to have a lot of double deckers. Will McGills stick with doubles for the area?

 

[Alex Ezz]

By the looks of things. First are cherry picking their better buses and not including them in the sale. 53860 has moved to Glasgow with the rest of the E400MMC to follow later this week I imagine.

It would be good if the 2015/16 E400MMCs could be moved to Glasgow too.

Has it been confirmed yet if the 66 reg batch at Livingston are part of the sale or not?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Has it been confirmed yet if the 66 reg batch at Livingston are part of the sale or not?

Not that I’m aware of although I’m hoping they are not part of the sale and Glasgow see them

 

[stevenedin]

I’m finding it very strange that McGill’s has nothing on the news section of their own website about this. I know that the full details won’t be available until launch day but you would think that they would a least acknowledge it.

 

[Observer]

What do we think McGill’s will do in the longer term. From what I’ve seen of McGill’s they seem to predominantly use single deckers, for West Lothian that won’t be much change from recent years, but Stirling seems to have a lot of double deckers. Will McGills stick with doubles for the area?

They need the double deckers for school work. Maybe some could be replaced with coaches, depends on the capacity required.

They will need to see what is available on the market or see if anything spare from Dundee could be revived.

 

[christopherrfc]

I’m finding it very strange that McGill’s has nothing on the news section of their own website about this. I know that the full details won’t be available until launch day but you would think that they would a least acknowledge it.

They did have the route descriptions on their website yesterday but has been taken down.

 

[stevenedin]

They did have the route descriptions on their website yesterday but has been taken down.

I also noticed for some reason they don’t have Dundee services on their website and it is a different website which isn’t a good sign of thing being consolidated quickly.