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First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

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Nick Ashwell

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Surely it's going to be something that isn't exactly the groups brand, hence why Avanti doesn't seem likely to me?

With the way corporate branding has been removed from other TOCs as they came up for renewal, surely this will be the same?
 
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Bletchleyite

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Nick Ashwell said:
Surely it's going to be something that isn't exactly the groups brand, hence why Avanti doesn't seem likely to me?

With the way corporate branding has been removed from other TOCs as they came up for renewal, surely this will be the same?
Click to expand...

Avanti is not a corporate brand, it's a brand that seems to have developed for this franchise specifically.
 
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Nick Ashwell

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But it's not neutral like other TOCs are now. GWR for example is a trademark of the DfF is it not, meaning any future operator of the route could just keep the same name perpetually, meaning a stronger brand identity being built over time. Is a neutral, regional name not better for the DfT long term than changing names with operators and all the rebranding costs that go with it?
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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Nick Ashwell said:
Is a neutral, regional name not better for the DfT long term than changing names with operators and all the rebranding costs that go with it?
Click to expand...

Yes it is and that should be they way forward and stop confusing the travelling public and wasting money.
 
pdeaves

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Nick Ashwell said:
But it's not neutral like other TOCs are now. GWR for example is a trademark of the DfF is it not, meaning any future operator of the route could just keep the same name perpetually
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It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the DfT specified that the winning bidder will develop a brand that must be made available gratis to any successor. Thus, the winner 'does the DfT's work' (in a sense) in making the brand.
 
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Bletchleyite

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pdeaves said:
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the DfT specified that the winning bidder will develop a brand that must be made available gratis to any successor. Thus, the winner 'does the DfT's work' (in a sense) in making the brand.
Click to expand...

I believe that is precisely what the "new generation" franchise agreements involve, yes. So Avanti could pass on with the TOC. It is a generic brand - it doesn't include the words "First" or "Trenitalia". It might sound a bit Italian, but so what?
 
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PR1Berske

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This will bite me on the backside, I know, I just can't see "Avanti" being chosen.
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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PR1Berske said:
This will bite me on the backside, I know, I just can't see "Avanti" being chosen.
Click to expand...


I just hope that "Avanti" is not the TOC's name going forward.

Avanti should be to West Coast as Azuma is to East Coast, and that's it!
 
sprinterguy

sprinterguy

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Nick Ashwell said:
But it's not neutral like other TOCs are now. GWR for example is a trademark of the DfF is it not, meaning any future operator of the route could just keep the same name perpetually, meaning a stronger brand identity being built over time. Is a neutral, regional name not better for the DfT long term than changing names with operators and all the rebranding costs that go with it?
Click to expand...

pdeaves said:
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the DfT specified that the winning bidder will develop a brand that must be made available gratis to any successor. Thus, the winner 'does the DfT's work' (in a sense) in making the brand.
Click to expand...

Bletchleyite said:
I believe that is precisely what the "new generation" franchise agreements involve, yes. So Avanti could pass on with the TOC. It is a generic brand - it doesn't include the words "First" or "Trenitalia". It might sound a bit Italian, but so what?
Click to expand...
There was no requirement in the Invitation to Tender for the West Coast Partnership brand to be transferable to a successor operator. Only a statement to the effect that it would be preferable.

As there's never been a UK First-Trenitalia partnership, could Avanti not be a group name for current or potential future operations? So the West Coast franchise could simply be branded "West Coast by Avanti" or somesuch?
 
RealTrains07

RealTrains07

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More likely the new 800 trains or 769s will be named Avanti like the paragon name for Hull Trains
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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Apparently the new Brand name for First Trenitalia is .....

Going to be announced officially on Monday 25th November 2019.
 
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