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First will not take over West Coast from December

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jon0844

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I agree. Cross fund your franchises or lose them all if one is fading.

It's a great idea, but if a company only has one franchise - they can easily say 'sod it' and give up.

And as we can see now, if the DfT did follow through on its threat to remove the operator from every franchise, it wouldn't actually be ABLE to take over. All of the companies can now see this and take a pretty good gamble that they'll NOT lose everything.
 
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tbtc

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It's a great idea, but if a company only has one franchise - they can easily say 'sod it' and give up.

And as we can see now, if the DfT did follow through on its threat to remove the operator from every franchise, it wouldn't actually be ABLE to take over. All of the companies can now see this and take a pretty good gamble that they'll NOT lose everything.

True - the WCML shenanigans have given other TOCs the security that the Government daren't try to take over a second franchise any time soon
 

Realfish

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3 years plus?
Nobody at DfT will be remotely thinking of ordering new Pendolinos (or anything else).
DfT procurement is shot to bits just now.

Perhaps Virgin could buy them in exchange for a further two years (or have I heard that somewhere before!!!)
 

jon0844

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Virgin will almost certainly be planning to say and promise a lot of things, as it has the backing of the public and so will be seen as the good guys vs Government ineptitude.

So, Richard asks for permission to go ahead with the things it put in its bid and - when told it didn't win and the bid is void, so no it can't - Virgin will send more emails to its customers and the press, to say that the customer is now losing out on all of the things Virgin wanted to do to improve the service which is now going to be stuck without investment or improvements.

Allowing Virgin to carry on might have solved a problem in the short term, but my goodness are there going to be a lot of problems ahead.
 
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The Government should have left themselves open to be able to chose the best bid, and the best deal for the passengers and country not the best price!
Would have First paid what they offered for all 15 years - I think not!

Next, they should have chosen Virgin, then they would not be in this mess now!!:lol:
 

YorkshireBear

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The Government should have left themselves open to be able to chose the best bid, and the best deal for the passengers and country not the best price!
Would have First paid what they offered for all 15 years - I think not!

Next, they should have chosen Virgin, then they would not be in this mess now!!:lol:

Would Virgin have paid theres? Would SNCF? Would My mum and her dog?

Don't form arguements on if buts and maybes.
How did first not offer a good deal for passenegers? Which one of their plans would have been bad?
 

6Gman

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The Government should have left themselves open to be able to chose the best bid, and the best deal for the passengers and country not the best price!
Would have First paid what they offered for all 15 years - I think not!

Yeh - give Virgin the money. After all, if the govt didn't spend it on Virgin they'd only waste it on schools and hospitals and things .....

:lol:
 

jon0844

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It's amazing how much trust and faith everyone has in Virgin, which has only ever run a pretty easy franchise and made a small fortune - compared to other operators that have had a rather tough ride and still managed to turn things around.

I think I'd know who to trust most, especially as if the going got tough for Virgin and it had no other franchises, it could easily decide to ditch rail just as Virgin has ditched many other businesses it has tried over the years.
 

Eagle

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It's amazing how much trust and faith everyone has in Virgin, which has only ever run a pretty easy franchise and made a small fortune...

They've run two franchises: one pretty easy franchise which made a small fortune, and one rather more difficult franchise which they didn't make much money from and subsequently lost after 11 years (although admittedly, I'd say they did a reasonable job of modernizing ICXC from the errant, sporadic, underclassed mix of services it was under BR).
 

jon0844

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I don't know why I said 'ever' rather than the fact that as of now they were only running one franchise. It's not as if I didn't know! However, I discounted the Cross Country franchise because they didn't keep it, and thus don't run it now, and the fact that they didn't kick up a fuss so were presumably not that bothered about it.

In fact, Virgin seemed to be very quiet about losing it - as if they didn't want to draw attention to it. A stark contrast to this time.
 

ChiefPlanner

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[, underclassed mix of services it was under BR).[/QUOTE]

XC was a serial loss maker under BR for a multitude of reasons , so with investment starved by HMG , not really surprising that battered class 47;s and so on were in daily use. XC was subsidised under Virgin , -
 

pablo

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VXC's tender was outbid by Arriva's sparkly extra bits that they never intended to provide. A minor case of what has happened now with the ICWC jobby. Guess Richard wasn't going to let it happen again. He should employ a tender team from the construction industry. They would win a franchise for him and not leave him stranded without enough get-outs!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's amazing how much trust and faith everyone has in Virgin, which has only ever run a pretty easy franchise and made a small fortune - compared to other operators that have had a rather tough ride and still managed to turn things around.

So ICWC 1997-2012 was an easy franchise, eh?
There were several basket cases in 1996/97, and WC and XC were two of them.
Also LTS and SE - that's why they were all 15-year franchises based on complete renewal of rolling stock.
WC might be easier now, but WCRM took 10 years and the line still bounces along the bottom of the punctuality league with many route issues.
Times change, and we are now seeing GW and TL as the most "difficult" franchises going forward.

And as for the "small fortune" remarks it might be useful to add the numbers up.
Virgin might have made a packet over the years, but profitablilty has dipped lately as premiums have risen.
I'd like someone to prove that Virgin has made the highest profit of all the TOCs.
Other TOCs have probably made more out of their franchises - I would guess SWT and c2c probably did better for their owners over the years than VT.

On XC, don't forget Virgin kept a quarter of it and folded it into WC, which must have dragged down the returns from the Euston-focussed services.
The last 8 years of VT results include this element.
Old XC and new XC are different animals.
 

tbtc

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VXC's tender was outbid by Arriva's sparkly extra bits that they never intended to provide

What were the sparkly bits they were supposed to provide?

I was wondering that - other than yet another argument about WiFi, I'm not sure.

AXC have kept operating the franchise despite the loss it was allegedly making - which is why I'm sceptical of all the "handing back the keys" stuff I read about some TOCs - they've stuck at it.
 

SprinterMan

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I was wondering that - other than yet another argument about WiFi, I'm not sure.

AXC have kept operating the franchise despite the loss it was allegedly making - which is why I'm sceptical of all the "handing back the keys" stuff I read about some TOCs - they've stuck at it.

Yeah, I thought all they were gonna do was remove the shops from the Voyagers to increase seating capacity, reintroduce HSTs and fit Wifi. They have done all of these things aside from the latter, and that is being done (albeit slowly) as we speak AFAIK.

Adam :D
 

Eagle

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Yeah, I thought all they were gonna do was remove the shops from the Voyagers to increase seating capacity, reintroduce HSTs and fit Wifi. They have done all of these things aside from the latter, and that is being done (albeit slowly) as we speak AFAIK.

Think they've done about three-quarters of the Voyagers now (they've definitely sped up a bit!).
 

HH

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http://home.ezezine.com/759/759-2012.10.22.04.00.archive.html

INFORMED SOURCES e-Preview November 2012

You can imagine that it has been a hectic past three weeks, triggered by the late night phone calls on 2 October from Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin telling the Intercity West Coast (ICWC) franchise bidders that the competition had been cancelled. So for the second month running the column is dominated by the West Coast.

Franchise Armageddon

Intercity West Coast - Virgin vindicated.

A culture of incompetence

ICWC – what happens now?

e-Voyager binned?


But before getting into the ICWC fiasco, I set the scene with an overview of where franchising had got to before the biggest shambles to hit the railway since the demise of Railtrack. There’s a table of the aborted, or ‘paused’ in DfT speak, franchise replacement programme. Another table lists which Train Operators are currently receiving revenue support under Cap & Collar.

While First Group based its growth forecasts for ICWC on Trans-Pennine Express, a better indication of how the Intercity rail market is performing is provided by Government-run East Coast which helpfully published its Report & Accounts for 2011-12 just before the balloon went up.

The accounts are given the usual Informed Sources analysis. One conclusion is that if East Coast were a TOC eligible for Cap & Collar it would be qualifying for the maximum 80% revenue support.

Don’t overlook the third little Table which compares the premia NEXC committed to pay, the service payments which DfT thought East Coast could pay and what has really happened. I have also converted these service payments into a profile graph. No prizes for guessing what it looks like!

ICWC - DfT ‘100% guilty’

Trying to nail down this column when fresh revelations on the ICWC franchise replacement metashambles were emerging by the hour has been, to put it mildly, fun. Fortunately, the dénouement came hours before we went to press and the news that DfT is now negotiating a 9 to 13 month extension of Virgin Rail’s West Coast franchise just made it into the magazine.

When Mr McLoughlin spoke to Sir Brian Souter just after 23.30 on 2 October, he recalled that the Stagecoach chief had once described DfT as ‘dysfunctional’. No need to repeat here what happened after the ICWC competition was cancelled, which most subscribers will have been following in real time. But for me the ‘smoking gun’ is that when accountants PricewaterhpuseCoopers (PwC) were reviewing DfT’s response to Virgin’s High Court Case (Informed Sources October) they found that the calculations on which the franchise award decision had been based were not available.

They had either been lost, not been saved or deleted. And when PwC re-ran the numbers, like Virgin and another unsuccessful bidder, they could not replicate the outputs. Given that billions of pounds were at stake, this loss of data is inexplicable.

You may remember in last month’s column I explained why I always prefer to use cash, or ‘real’ figures for analysis, rather than Net Present Value or ‘Nominal. There are reports that in evaluating the ICWC bids DfT confused real and nominal values.

Lots of questions to be asked and the initial findings of the ‘independent’ Review of the debacle, led by DfT non Executive Director Sam Laidlaw is due to be delivered on 26 October – the day Modern Railways appears on the bookstalls.

Meanwhile, the Department’s proposals for what happens next on West Coast defy ridicule.

Having agreed an extension with Virgin, DfT plans to use the time to invite bids for a short (two year) interim franchise). Then, during this interim franchise bidding starts for a new long term franchise.

Let’s say four companies bid for the interim franchise – that’s £20 million in bidding costs and I bet DfT won’t spare the consultants, so add another £3-5 million of our money. Then there’s serious bidding for the long term franchise. Say £30 million in bidding costs. And this is the same DfT that keeps reminding us of Sir Roy McNulty’s claims that the railway costs too much!

Ministers missed precursors

In the May 2012 column I wrote this:
”For some time now, this column’s default assumption has been that the Department for Transport is dysfunctional. This has shown up in the repeated corrections Aviation & Rail Minister Theresa Villiers has had to make after misleading the House of Commons with incorrect answers to written questions. And sometimes, blatant errors have not been corrected (this column passim)”.

Misleading Parliament is, supposedly, a serious offence. Minsters who have done so usually apologise to the House when issuing the ensuing correction.

As you will have noted in past columns, DfT, and former Transport Minister Theresa Villiers have had to publish several correction to her written answers which contained blatant errors. What puzzled me was why Theresa never seemed to twig that she was regularly issuing corrections.

In her shoes, the first correction would have resulted in a bollocking for the official who had provided the incorrect answer. After that a repeat would have produced a rapid move out of the Department, with a ministerial reprimand on the individual’s civil service record.

Apologists claim that it would be unreasonable to expect Minister to have checked the calculations behind the ICWC franchise award. But any minister should have noticed that they were having to correct misleading information generated by their department and done something about it.

By letting this sloppiness continue, ministers were, in aviation safety-speak, ‘normalising deviance’. And if civil servants couldn’t get simple things right, like the track access charges for IEP, what chance did the Department stand of managing something really complex like a franchising model?

As I say, the Laidlaw Review should be reporting as the magazine goes on sale. But here are some questions I would have expected to have been asked. And note that as of 17 October the Laidlaw team had not spoken to either to First or Virgin Rail.

Key questions

Given that at least two of the franchise models run by bidders highlighted the flaws in the DfT’s model exposed by PwC, what did First’s modelling show?

Did DfT officials apply subjective judgement to inputs and outputs? Did bid teams discuss the crucial Subordinate Loan Facility – the hedge against long term risk – with bidders?

Is there documentary evidence in bid team files that Virgin raised queries on the bidding process? Did DfT respond? Remember that then Transport Secretary Justine Greening said on 31 August ‘Virgin raised no concerns with process until it emerged that they had lost the bid’.

What next for ICWC?

Well, we know, sort of. But this section of the column, though in part overtaken by time, remains relevant because the halt to franchise replacement means that the same situation will be faced by the ‘paused’ franchises – Essex Thameside (c2c) Great Western and Thameslink. What happens when these, like Virgin West Coast expire? And East Coast was also supposed to be re-let in 2013

DfT has Directly Operated Railways (DOR), as its operator of last resort. So as soon as Virgin said it would challenge the ICWC award DOR began recruiting a team to run ICWC should it be necessary. Because of the uncertainty, and the expectation that First’s take-over would simply be deferred for only a short time, DOR and First worked in parallel with Virgin on the mechanics of mobilisation.

Mobilisation is not cheap. The DOR takeover of East Coast cost around £3million.

With DfT hiring head hunters to search for suitably qualified rail managers, it was clear that DOR was struggling to put together a second team following East Coast. But McLoughlin’s announcement on 3 October took DfT – and DOR – into uncharted waters. With the competition cancelled there was neither a failed TOC to be rescued, nor an eventual handover to First Group to be facilitated.

Instead we had a franchise coming to an end with no replacement appointed. Even worse, the current agreements for the four franchises due to be let in 2013 will also expire. And Great Western and Thameslink vie for this column’s soubriquet of ‘franchise of death’ because of their extensive upgrades. If DOR was struggling to staff ICWC, what chance with four more franchises?

Civil servants have been telling ministers that you can’t just extend franchise once you have already exploited the seven reporting period extensions in all franchise agreements. Under EC law you have to put the extension out to tender – or else let DOR take over.

Let’s apply a commonsense test to the DOR option. Who would you rather have running the Great Western Main Line as total route modernisation kicks in – Mark Hopwood and his team or DOR with veteran old-BR managers turned self employed consultants who haven’t run a 21st century railway?

So, two year management contracts all round, say I, with an additional half a percent of revenue above an agreed income line to encourage a commercial attitude.
 

3141

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As we can see now, if the DfT did follow through on its threat to remove the operator from every franchise, it wouldn't actually be ABLE to take over. All of the companies can now see this and take a pretty good gamble that they'll NOT lose everything.

I don’t see that. I think the big transport groups already knew they would not necessarily lose all their franchises if they gave up one of them.

When National Express said it would not give any more financial support to NXEC, Lord Adonis, who was then the Secretary of State for Transport, spoke very fiercely about how he was going to terminate the other NX franchises, but it turned out he could not do that. The reason was because the DfT had required NXEC to be set up as a separate company with financial support in the form of bonds (partly to protect TOCs if their parent group failed), and there were no sanctions available if the NX Group chose not to provide NXEC with any more money once the bonds were exhausted.

I think I read that that kind of arrangement was the DfTs normal practice, and if that is so then it would already be unable to terminate a company’s other TOCs if it chose to give up one that was losing money. I think there have only been two new franchises let since then (Southern and Greater Anglia) so even if the DfT has changed its arrangements the former ones will still apply in most cases.

It’s true that NX Group was not offered the extension for NX East Anglia to March 2014 that it might have hoped for, but it was able to continue to run NXEA up to the end of the basic franchise term (and with a short extension, I think I recall). And it still runs c2c.

What the ICWC events show that the DfT might have difficulty taking over franchises at short notice. There should have been four months between the announcement of the winner in August and the takeover by First in December. By the time the DfT decided to scrap the whole refranchising process, in early October, the scheduled date for the end of the Virgin franchise was only nine weeks away. I’m not surprised that the DfT considers a Virgin management contract more practical than a DOR takeover.

Therefore the way it looks to me is that if a large transport group with two or three TOCs decided to give up on one of them because it was seriously loss-making, there would first be the question of how much notice the departing TOC would give – or have to give. If the notice it gave was so short that DOR could not get the necessary managers in time, and chaos resulted, the transport group responsible would suffer huge damage to its reputation and possibly legal action by the government for breach of contract.

But probably there would already have been signs of trouble, and talks between the company and the DfT, so recruitment for DOR might already have been under way. After all, in the case of NXEC it was reported that there had been negotiations between DfT officials and the company to move to a management contract, which Lord Adonis refused to accept.

As for the company’s other franchises, the DfT would most likely have more time to give notice of termination to them – if it has the power to do so – and to mobilise DOR to take over.

Let’s hope we never find out. The uncertainties arising from such situations would be unnerving for many passengers and bad for the railway industry.
 

HH

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Story in today's FT states that two bidders have spoken to them stating that there were errors in the original (model) "template" given by DfT. This is true, but there have always been errors in these sheets, which are found by the bidders and then corrected. Maybe it is indicative of poor standards at DfT as FT claim; maybe it's simply that bidders act as unpaid auditors to save DfT money...
 

AndyLandy

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What does easement mean?

i have a Disabled railcard so does that mean i wont be able to used it before 09.30am during the week?

I think the rules on Disabled railcards are different. They tend to be more permissive in general.

Virgin currently allow 16-25 Railcard holders to travel on evening peak services out of Euston, using a discounted off-peak ticket. I believe this may have extended to a few of the other railcards, but I don't know for sure.
 

Realfish

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I'm sure that I saw this question asked of VT on their Facebook page a few weeks back, the answer being that there would be no changes.

I've just 'done' a dummy booking for Feb with my SNR card and as now, it is offering an 'OP' on the usual peak-time trains that I travel on, to and from EUS
 

calc7

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Applies to F&F, Disabled, 16-25, Senior, and HMF as far as I know.

Though on-train announcements tend to say "Off-Peak tickets are not valid on this service, unless accompanied by a valid railcard"; so I'm unsure whether they'd accept any Off-Peak ticket that has a railcard discount printed at the centre-left when presented with that railcard.

Also not to mention the fact "Off-Peak tickets are not valid on this service" is a bit misleading in itself.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Though on-train announcements tend to say "Off-Peak tickets are not valid on this service, unless accompanied by a valid railcard"; so I'm unsure whether they'd accept any Off-Peak ticket that has a railcard discount printed at the centre-left when presented with that railcard.

Also not to mention the fact "Off-Peak tickets are not valid on this service" is a bit misleading in itself.

I'd be very surprised if there are significant changes in the VT fares structure during the "interim" franchise.
I imagine it will be steady as she goes unless the DfT want specific changes.
No doubt we'll find out when the deal is announced.
 

swt_passenger

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Is the Virgin railcard easement still disappearing in December?

If the franchise had changed as planned, First had stated that the railcard easement wasn't changing anyway.

Haven't heard if the same question was asked of Virgin, I suppose at the time First were being asked they were not relevant.
 
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transmanche

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If the franchise had changed as planned, FGW had stated that the railcard easement wasn't changing anyway.
That would have been a source of major confusion (and a number of expensive ticket upgrades) if one First franchise (FWC) offered the easement, whilst others (e.g. FGW, TPE) did not.
 
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