First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[ushawk]

Disappointing news, think Virgin are a good train company who have done bloody good since they first got the franchise. To have First Group getting the franchise is even more disappointing.

Lets have a little look at the other franchises they have/had -

First Great Western - disappointing at the beginning, but admittedly is now one of the top TOCs in the country, in my opinion. Hopefully the IWC franchise is ran like this.

First Capital Connect - do i need to say more about them ?

First Hull Trains - blighted by constant problems with their rolling stock, other than that they are a good TOC

First Scotrail and TPE - cant really say about them as ive never used them

Heathrow Connect - contained TOC which does a good job

FGE - did a decent job with what they had, of course ruined when NXEA took over

FNW - poorly run TOC

Mixed bag there, but i feel that First have only got it so the government get the most money - will be interesting if they do go the same way as GNER and NXEC.

 

[PR1Berske]

On the flip side, why should the majority suffer because of the few?



As do I

I like self service machines too - good to put steak through as a single carrot when money is a bit tight.

 

[David10]

Similar applies at Manchester Piccadilly. The only feasible way I can think of to install gatelines would be to replace the current glass façade with a single very long gateline.

I imagine it will be much like London Waterloo.

 

[All Line Rover]

Some of the comments on VT's Facebook page are hilarious:

"Will you be selling your highspeed trains on to the new service provider?"

"It will be the same disaster as when stagecoach took over the eastcoast line."

"Virgin was the only company to improve their line"

"My son will miss seeing the pendolinos, voyagers and super voyagers."

"Every time the trains have been on time"

"I've also used trains belonging to the First Group, and I've never arrived on time"
​

First will have a tough time on their hands if this is really how uninformed the travelling public are.

 

[F Great Eastern]

FGE Poorly run TOC? It was just train operator of the year and the best performing London operator when the franchise was lost and commuter groups and staff were devastated when NX got the contract, so must have been absolutely terrible :\

Now GA are having to clear up the mess that NXEA left behind.

 

[ushawk]

Some of the comments on VT's Facebook page are hilarious:

"Will you be selling your highspeed trains on to the new service provider?"

"It will be the same disaster as when stagecoach took over the eastcoast line."

"Virgin was the only company to improve their line"

"My son will miss seeing the pendolinos, voyagers and super voyagers."

"Every time the trains have been on time"

"I've also used trains belonging to the First Group, and I've never arrived on time"
​

First will have a tough time on their hands if this is really how uninformed the travelling public are.

I dont think the public would really know about what happens with a franchise change anyway, they are really expected to know the entire process - although some have of course got their facts a bit wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

FGE Poorly run TOC? It was just train operator of the year and the best performing London operator when the franchise was lost and commuter groups and staff were devastated when NX got the contract, so must have been absolutely terrible :\

Now GA are having to clear up the mess that NXEA left behind.

Got NXEA and FGE mixed up

 

[Class377/5]

g

Disappointing news, think Virgin are a good train company who have done bloody good since they first got the franchise. To have First Group getting the franchise is even more disappointing.

First Capital Connect - do i need to say more about them ?

Yes, care to actually say what you feel is wrong and why its FCC's fault?

 

[cle]

It could be argued that First overbrid for Greater Western and Stagecoach overbid for South Western but neither have handed back the keys.

Isn't that exactly what FGW are doing by ending the franchise early?

 

[Class377/5]

Isn't that exactly what FGW are doing by ending the franchise early?

No because FGW arranged the break with the DfT so its part of their franchise agreement they have chosen to take.

 

[island]

We're getting into rehash territory. First had an option to terminate the Great Western franchise early. National Express did not have such an option with East Coast.

 

[Zoe]

Isn't that exactly what FGW are doing by ending the franchise early?

No, they are a break point that was agreed when the franchise was let. This is not the same as handing the keys back.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Did I read correctly the premium is 5.5 billion?

 

[ushawk]

g

Yes, care to actually say what you feel is wrong and why its FCC's fault?

Trains are always filthy and often covered in graffiti, often delayed (admittedly this isnt always down to them, but there area good few train failures), poor to provide information in times of disruption and most of the staff i have ever had to speak to havent really helped at all and tried to pass it onto someone else.

 

[trentside]

I dont think the public would really know about what happens with a franchise change anyway, they are really expected to know the entire process - although some have of course got their facts a bit wrong.

Yes, one person said she was disgusted about a British company loosing out to a non-British company... errr, ok. I didn't realise Scotland was already independent

I really am surprised by the public reaction to the franchise change, I know that Virgin has attempted to cultivate a 'popular' image, but didn't realise there was so much good will - as this outpouring of outrage would suggest. People obviously feel Virgin has done a good job, but as someone who has never travelled extensively with them I can't really comment.

 

[F Great Eastern]

http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pd...Coast_franchise_award_presentation_150812.pdf

Some interesting info there.

 

[Class377/5]

Did I read correctly the premium is 5.5 billion?

Yes over 14 years. Or £393m per year vs this years £160m.

 

[Oldrowley]

Disappointing news, think Virgin are a good train company who have done bloody good since they first got the franchise. To have First Group getting the franchise is even more disappointing.

Lets have a little look at the other franchises they have/had -

First Great Western - disappointing at the beginning, but admittedly is now one of the top TOCs in the country, in my opinion. Hopefully the IWC franchise is ran like this.

First Capital Connect - do i need to say more about them ?

First Hull Trains - blighted by constant problems with their rolling stock, other than that they are a good TOC

First Scotrail and TPE - cant really say about them as ive never used them

Heathrow Connect - contained TOC which does a good job

FGE - did a decent job with what they had, of course ruined when NXEA took over

FNW - poorly run TOC

Mixed bag there, but i feel that First have only got it so the government get the most money - will be interesting if they do go the same way as GNER and NXEC.

First Scotrail and TPE are excellent TOCs and I see you have amended your opinion on FGE. In fact, First has done pretty well overall.
All in all ushawk, I fear you have hoisted yourself on your own petard!

 

[Morgsie]

RIP Virgin Trains

I hope First can deliver but I am wary

I hope they lose the Greater Western Franchise

 

[Pugwash]

It is hardly First's fault - the only way they can win franchises is by increasing premiums by screwing down costs ( and quality ) blame the DFT.

Anglia was won by national express on the basis they were willing to return even more money to the DFt than even First, passengers are still paying for it. If First want to stay in the rail business they know there is only one requirement and that is £££'s to the DFT.

 

[Nym]

Well, for one the strong brand presence of Virgin Trains will be very hard to get rid of, how many people still say "Virgin Train from Newcastle to Birmingham" no matter how long it's now belonged to AXC...

I'd expect this to be the same with this change.

I'm not personally the biggest fan of FirstGroup as I have experienced their higher levels of management when they tried to recruit me, so I'd say be prepared for a lot more non-operational managers and wet behind the ears graduates running things with nice buzzwords and business-speak without actually knowing what they're doing.

As far as services to Bolton go, that will be a nice touch to make up for the loss of fast TPE services, and if with electrification a number of services will run in the AM peak, this will be a very nice addition to the AM peak capacity from Bolton, the same with Telford and Shrewsbury, but it would remain to be seen if these services are actually, well, used...

The customer service of FG at head office is frankly appauling and I really do hope that the marginal levels of service remain at Birmingham rather than moving down to Plymouth.

As for baby pendos, this is a rather good mood, and one hopes they will retain options for an additional 10 to 20 units to run services from Manchester to Scotland, Euston to Chester & Holyhead (Drag) etc.

 

[John55]

Did I read correctly the premium is 5.5 billion?

Net Present Value (NPV) of bid is £5.5 billion. Real cash will be a lot more as the discount rate will reduce the value of cash in the future when expressed as NPV. With a 15 year franchise the payments at the end of the franchise will be heavily discounted in the NPV figure.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Yes over 14 years. Or £393m per year vs this years £160m.

Shows you not always to read the speculation in the press about 7bn bid. Be interesting how much Virgin bid after all as if the 5.5bn to 6bn speculation for accurate it makes Branson's comments redundant or if it was 6bn totally inaccurate and misleading to drum up support.

 

[OxtedL]

This didn't take long - https://www.facebook.com/ReinstateVirginTrainsWestCoast

Dear god, 186 likes. It's practically viral.

I appreciate that this is the end of the world now, but I'm comfortable believing that in 2 years time the West Coast main line will still have trains running up and down it.

I absolutely despise the things and what installing them implies - "we don't trust you, we don't trust any of you, you are all accountable to us". You can throw as many straw men at me as you like (a particular favourite of gating proponents is "well you wouldn't expect to be able to go airside without a ticket at the airport"), that's my opinion on the subject.

Speaking as someone who isn't naive and knows the basic principles of fare evasion, gates are a significant aid to fare collection. Particularly when combined with penalty fares, although this is not essential.

 

[harz99]

Not true.
Glasgow services will miss out Warrington and Wigan but there will be a new hourly service from Euston to Lancaster/Blackpool which will pick up these stops (and a couple more).
It's in the WCML RUS (to come in after the Norton Bridge upgrade).
Services to Preston double.

Forget Grand Central.

All of which means that from a passenger use point of view Preston will become even busier than it is now.

The oft forgotten off train public face - Virgin's station operation (from a customer service perspective) has many, many shortcomings, and is in my judgement their biggest failing, and something First West Coast need to, and should, address quickly.

But unless the new TOC either employ staff whose job is akin to the old IC Welcome Hosts, or "persuade" the existing station staff to become more customer focused rather than solely operations focused, that is simply not going to happen.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The presentation I linked to says in the first five years the headcount will be broadly flat.

 

[Stats]

Shows you not always to read the speculation in the press about 7bn bid. Be interesting how much Virgin bid after all as if the 5.5bn to 6bn speculation for accurate it makes Branson's comments redundant or if it was 6bn totally inaccurate and misleading to drum up support.

Virgin bid £700m less than FirstGroup.

 

[REVAP]

Wonderful news for Shropshire - but why wait until 2016 - stock cascade - IEP - Voyager with an electric coach?

 

[Morgsie]

Electrification to Blackpool is delayed til mid 2016

 

[REVAP]

I think Virgin will get the East Coast franchise, and it wouldn't surprise me if First lose Trans Pennine or Great Western in due course.

 

[island]

I think Virgin will get the East Coast franchise, and it wouldn't surprise me if First lose Trans Pennine or Great Western in due course.

Sir Beardy says he isn't bidding for any more franchises.