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Flying Scotsman

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LeylandLen

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I would assume the 1850 dep from London Victoria on 25th to West Brompton is the Flying Scotsman . The reason that it implies its a diesel hauled train is that they are timings for such a train ; there are no specific timings for steam hauled trains ; the clue is in the max speed of 75mph !Obviously darkness will prevent a good view of the train after about Guildford at 2142 !

However , I see there is a departure at 1112 on 25th doing a circular trip via Shalfords going back to Victoria, and its known that Flying Scotsman is doing that route ..... !!
 
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GazK

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Thanks all - tweet by NR today seems to suggest the same, so I guess we can assume same route and timings as last Sat.
 

midlandred

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20 Feb 2007
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Oxfordshire
For 1 June, it is shown on Steam Dreams site as SOLD OUT
It's supposed to run Chiltern Line-Bicester-Thames Valley - but the line isn't complete!
It has disappeared from various rail tour listings, as have other Flying Scotsman outings

Still showing on uksteam.info - is the line now complete??!!
 

D6975

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They are indeed. There also seems to be a diesel heading over from Castleton (near Rochdale) which is a strange place for it to come from as West Coast are based in Carnforth. Does anyone know why this diesel appears to have been stabled in Castleton?

Nobody appears to have answered this bit yet.
Castleton is where the link from the East Lancs Railway comes out, so anything coming from Bury would appear on RTT as starting at Castleton.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A

An operator cannot just have a second steam engine on standby should the booked one fail.

The Torbay Express from Bristol did have just that a few years ago, there were always 2 kettles at Barton Hill for the Summer. I don't know what the current arrangement is and I haven't been past it on the train recently to see what's there.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I would assume the 1850 dep from London Victoria on 25th to West Brompton is the Flying Scotsman . The reason that it implies its a diesel hauled train is that they are timings for such a train ; there are no specific timings for steam hauled trains ; the clue is in the max speed of 75mph !Obviously darkness will prevent a good view of the train after about Guildford at 2142 !

However , I see there is a departure at 1112 on 25th doing a circular trip via Shalfords going back to Victoria, and its known that Flying Scotsman is doing that route ..... !!

It's doing two trips in the day.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Still showing on uksteam.info - is the line now complete??!!


I am booked on the 01 June trip, it was meant to go via the new connection through Oxford / Bicester etc, but I was advised some weeks ago that it would now be via the Surrey Hills owing to the new line not quite being completed. It does not show the new details on steaminfo but does on steam dreams website.
 

midlandred

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I am booked on the 01 June trip, it was meant to go via the new connection through Oxford / Bicester etc, but I was advised some weeks ago that it would now be via the Surrey Hills owing to the new line not quite being completed. It does not show the new details on steaminfo but does on steam dreams website.

Thanks for that - and uksteam.info now shows "[Cancelled route unavailable]"
 

PakRail

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24 Apr 2016
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Yes the Flying Scotsman will depart Victoria at 1850 and is due to arrive at West Brompton at 2343. It will be stopping at Hounslow and Brixton stations as well at 2005 and 2325 respectively. I personally cannot wait to see it! Will go and see it straight after work.
 

GAV105E

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Im looking for an update on the flying Scotsman passing through Bicester next Wednesday. The rear door of the factory where I work is about 10 feet from the new line !! I can confirm the line is open and running frequently to Oxford. Unfortunatley nobody is sure if the line is complete from oxford parkway into the city. Is there an further info on its route and times ?
 

TBirdFrank

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Re non performing steam excursions -

I rode my first excursion fifty one years ago.

I rode my last UK excursion on the 12th Sept 2014.

I rode my last steam excursion elsewhere ten days ago.

I got the loco scheduled.

I got to sleep in my hotel late enough to have a breakfast and then go to the station.

We got to our destination early enough to have an alfresco dinner.

four days running!

It cost little more than half UK costs - so that dealt with hotel bills.

Will I ever go UK again???

Not if I have to be on the road at 04.00 and return sometime after 00.00.

Not if I have to sit in my seat and not experience the wind in my hair

Not if I have to sit in a Mk1 with failed electrics, heating and water.

Not if I am promised one loco and another turns up

Not if I am promised one route or destination and another is substituted

Not if the locos are not maintained so as to give substantial confidence that they will actually turn up on the day.

The contrasts with the rock stage are 100% accurate - If I book for Fleetwood Mac and the promoter stages Rumours of Fleetwood Mac then that is either negligence or fraud and the same is true in the railtour world.

Promoters and suppliers are caught by the Consumer Protection Act 2015 either directly or through their contractual inclusion in the supply chain and it is high time that some or all were dragged before the courts to explain their failings - I think we got pretty damned near ten days ago with the Flying Scotsman clearance fiasco - but the very top men at NR saw the egg approaching their faces and ducked it by burning the midnight oil to deliver what they should have provided in a timely fashion all along.

When one pays around £100 - £300 for a steam excursion one is not lucky that it is available. One is a paying customer who together with others has paid for the product offered and is entitled to the very best endeavours by the providers to deliver it - and not some unloved, dirty old duff, and full compensation if the promised level of service is not provided!
 

DarloRich

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The contrasts with the rock stage are 100% accurate - If I book for Fleetwood Mac and the promoter stages Rumours of Fleetwood Mac then that is either negligence or fraud and the same is true in the railtour world.

Promoters and suppliers are caught by the Consumer Protection Act 2015 either directly or through their contractual inclusion in the supply chain and it is high time that some or all were dragged before the courts to explain their failings - I think we got pretty damned near ten days ago with the Flying Scotsman clearance fiasco - but the very top men at NR saw the egg approaching their faces and ducked it by burning the midnight oil to deliver what they should have provided in a timely fashion all along.

When one pays around £100 - £300 for a steam excursion one is not lucky that it is available. One is a paying customer who together with others has paid for the product offered and is entitled to the very best endeavours by the providers to deliver it - and not some unloved, dirty old duff, and full compensation if the promised level of service is not provided!


Contrasts with the rock world :roll:
Negligence or fraud :roll:


Trying to sue Network Rail for negligence or a tour provider for whatever wibbly offence you think they have committed would involve you being laughed out of court in about 2 seconds with the added bonus of having to pick up the tab for all of the costs plus the potential for being declared a vexatious litigant! Feel free to have a crack. I hope you have a good bank balance. You wont by the end.
 
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BestWestern

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Contrasts with the rock world :roll:
Negligence or fraud :roll:


Trying to sue Network Rail for negligence or a tour provider for whatever wibbly offence you think they have committed would involve you being laughed out of court in about 2 seconds with the added bonus of having to pick up the tab for all of the costs plus the potential for being declared a vexatious litigant! Feel free to have a crack. I hope you have a good bank balance. You wont by the end.

The moral issues may be open to debate, but I would be absolutely stunned if the smallprint for every railtour ticket ever sold didn't include a 'no liability for failures or substitutes' clause...
 

Islineclear3_1

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PTSO or platform depending on the weather
Re non performing steam excursions - The contrasts with the rock stage are 100% accurate - If I book for Fleetwood Mac and the promoter stages Rumours of Fleetwood Mac then that is either negligence or fraud and the same is true in the railtour world.

Promoters and suppliers are caught by the Consumer Protection Act 2015 either directly or through their contractual inclusion in the supply chain and it is high time that some or all were dragged before the courts to explain their failings

When one pays around £100 - £300 for a steam excursion one is not lucky that it is available. One is a paying customer who together with others has paid for the product offered and is entitled to the very best endeavours by the providers to deliver it - and not some unloved, dirty old duff, and full compensation if the promised level of service is not provided!

Good luck in the courts. Who would you take to court and on what grounds? "Sorry Your Honour, I was robbed because that nasty steam company couldn't provide the steam locomotive I had paid to travel behind" :roll:
 

DarloRich

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The moral issues may be open to debate, but I would be absolutely stunned if the smallprint for every railtour ticket ever sold didn't include a 'no liability for failures or substitutes' clause...

it always does! Clearly the poster above you doesn't read his small print.
 

TBirdFrank

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Dear, dear boys - the "small print" doesn't work any more.

The Consumer Protection Act 2015 has put paid to "cover all" clauses once and for all.

"Unfair" clauses will be exposed as such and be of no legal effect - so - if you advertise Flying Scotsman and turn up with a duff - you had better be thinking of a refund rather more aligned to the actual cost of the ticket. It's not a journey that is being sold but the "Flying Scotsman" experience.

If you think I am wrong - read up and inform yourselves.

Promoters - "vendors" are required to apply a reasonable level of skill and professionalism in the conduct of their business - so

Promising locos that are not even in ticket is a recipe for a 100% refund

Promising routes that aren't even gauged is a recipe for a 100% refund

Describing attractive welcoming rolling stock and providing unlit, unheated coaches where the toilets won't work is a recipe for a 100% refund.

Suggesting times that are undeliverable is a recipe for a 100% refund.

etc, etc.

Yes this does make a promoter's business much more difficult but no-one makes a promoter enter the business and no-one is buying a product in a legal vacuum.

If others with rose tinted spectacles are prepared to be turned over for large sums of money then that is their decision.

If I choose to buy a product it will be with my eyes open, expecting to get what is being described to me or a no questions asked refund in the case of a failure to deliver.

That is UK Consumer law.
 

GazK

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Been doing some digging at work. 28/5 confirmed PAD-SAL and SAL-PAD route same as last week, timings similar or same. Don't ask me how I know.
 

DarloRich

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Dear, dear boys - the "small print" doesn't work any more.

The Consumer Protection Act 2015 has put paid to "cover all" clauses once and for all.

"Unfair" clauses will be exposed as such and be of no legal effect - so - if you advertise Flying Scotsman and turn up with a duff - you had better be thinking of a refund rather more aligned to the actual cost of the ticket. It's not a journey that is being sold but the "Flying Scotsman" experience.

If you think I am wrong - read up and inform yourselves.

Promoters - "vendors" are required to apply a reasonable level of skill and professionalism in the conduct of their business - so

Promising locos that are not even in ticket is a recipe for a 100% refund

Promising routes that aren't even gauged is a recipe for a 100% refund

Describing attractive welcoming rolling stock and providing unlit, unheated coaches where the toilets won't work is a recipe for a 100% refund.

Suggesting times that are undeliverable is a recipe for a 100% refund.

etc, etc.

Yes this does make a promoter's business much more difficult but no-one makes a promoter enter the business and no-one is buying a product in a legal vacuum.

If others with rose tinted spectacles are prepared to be turned over for large sums of money then that is their decision.

If I choose to buy a product it will be with my eyes open, expecting to get what is being described to me or a no questions asked refund in the case of a failure to deliver.

That is UK Consumer law.

It is clear you are a very confused individual (at least legally speaking) and, sadly, it is you you need to read up and inform yourself as a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Your own post gives a clear defence to the kind of action you seem to think is possible: "reasonable care and skill".

The law is quite clear. You can ask a vendor to repeat or fix the service that you feel was not delivered as agreed if it's not carried out with reasonable care and skill, or get some money back if it cant be fixed. This is not the right to ask for a blanket refund in the terms you seem to think.

Consider: The advertised steam train breaks down at the last moment through a mechanical fault that occurred in a 70 year old piece of equipment. Your view is that unplanned last minute event should allow you to claim a full refund. My views is that as long as the locomotive were maintained within a reasonable maintenance regime by people with adequate skills using appropriate equipment you would have no claim.

I will agree that if a tour promoter knowingly lied to you (not just a late change of plan) but made an outright lie a claim may be more successful!

BTW - you still have no claim against Network Rail which i suspect is your main interest in all this. There is also an untested question as to whether the act extends to the kind of services ( not goods) being offered by a railway tour promoter. But an expert like you would know this.
 
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Westnat

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Well done and thank you for posting this information. Can I be cheeky and ask if you, or anyone knows how FS will fill her time in between?

Same way as she did last week, a Cream Tea special round trip via Southampton and Eastleigh.
 

TBirdFrank

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Firstly - no-one is talking about force majeure events like the injectors failing as the loco emerges for service.

Secondly - The Act covers all goods and services offered for retail sale - and a steam railtour promoter is not excluded.

Thirdly - like it or not Network Rail is a publicly owned body and although it likes to behave as judge jury and executioner in its own house - you saw ten days ago what happens when in oversteps the mark.

We are not "lucky" to have main line steam, we are clients paying a market rate and that imposes legal obligations on those supplying them.

Fourth - I have spent enough years editing legal documents - many of them pertaining to railways to have confidence in my own capacity to sort out the relevant facts - inconvenient though they are.
 

DarloRich

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Firstly - no-one is talking about force majeure events like the injectors failing as the loco emerges for service.

Well what are you talking about then?

Secondly - The Act covers all goods and services offered for retail sale - and a steam railtour promoter is not excluded.

It is, as yet, untested at law. The ADR process is also new and an unknown. It is certainly an interesting and helpful ( for consumers) piece of legislation but it can not be said to be as simple as you make out.

Thirdly - like it or not Network Rail is a publicly owned body and although it likes to behave as judge jury and executioner in its own house - you saw ten days ago what happens when in oversteps the mark.

I am unsure what you are wittering on about here. In any event you as a consumer have no legally enforceable agreement with NR, no mater how much you wish you did.

We are not "lucky" to have main line steam, we are clients paying a market rate and that imposes legal obligations on those supplying them.

No, we are very lucky to have the level of steam trains running on the real railway. Very lucky indeed. Things like Wooton Bassett will bring them to an end very quickly. I note you seem very keen to criticise everyone but the operating companies and certainly one company in particular. Why is that?

Fourth - I have spent enough years editing legal documents - many of them pertaining to railways to have confidence in my own capacity to sort out the relevant facts - inconvenient though they are.

Be that as it may (and I will see your editing experience and raise you) your interpretation of the legislation is very basic and very simplistic.
 

NSEFAN

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http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...8/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR

you-didnt-see-anything_749.gif
 

Westnat

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The Cream Tea round trip is still being advertised on the Steam Dreams website (Sold out!), but there is a 2 - 3 hour interval between arriving at Salisbury from London and departing on the Cream Tea round trip, so maybe this explains the ECS working?
 

LiftFan

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27 May 2016
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I thought tomorrow the Scotsman is coming to Bath Spa? I cannot find the train times which I need as both me and my Grandmother would like to see it.
 

sduob

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Wondering if anyone has tips for line side spots (legal, quiet, with easy access to parking etc) around Berkshire? I'm new to the area and dont really go out for trains much, but as a kid I watched Flying Scotsman seemingly forever in the NRM workshop so I'd like to see it go past at some reasonable speed.
 
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