Franchise pre-qualifiers

[jopsuk]

the generally reliable "Railway Eye blog has news this morning of pre-qualifiers for West Coast and Greater Anglia.
for West Coast

Sources suggesting that Virgin, Abellio, First, and a Keolis/SNCF joint venture have prequalified for the West Coast franchise.

Happily for fans of WiFi DB/Arriva failed to make the grade.

For Greater Anglia

Sources suggest that Go-Ahead, Stagecoach and Abellio have prequalified for the Greater Anglia franchise.

So farewell National Express!

for those that don't follow such things, Abellio is a Nederlandse Spoorwegen subsidiary, and Keolis is mainly owned by SNCF.

 

[NLC1072]

the generally reliable "Railway Eye blog has news this morning of pre-qualifiers for West Coast and Greater Anglia.
for West Coast


For Greater Anglia


for those that don't follow such things, Abellio is a Nederlandse Spoorwegen subsidiary, and Keolis is mainly owned by SNCF.

I reckon it'll be First who win WCML and Stagecoach followed closely by Go Ahead for the East Anglia franchise

 

[WillPS]

I think it's a shame DB didn't get a shot at West Coast. No news on East Coast?

 

[starrymarkb]

I think it's a shame DB didn't get a shot at West Coast. No news on East Coast?

It's prob for the best. It seems DB are prefering the Low cost Arriva style of opperation (see XC)

 

[WillPS]

Or Chiltern? One of the only franchises to show any sort of entrepreneurship?

DB had nothing to do with the bidding process for CrossCountry, and it's unfair that they're being judged by the actions of a company they've only recently taken over.

 

[ApAp]

The Abellio logo (they took over Travel London buses from National Express) contains the Nederlandse Spoorwegen logo which seems to be based on a similar concept to the BR logo.

So the tickets will have the BR logo and the trains (if they get the franchise) will have the Dutch Railways logo on them, unless they use a different brand for their train services.

 

[387star]

Impressed by the pre-qualified bidders for Greater Anglia. Both Go-Ahead and Stagecoach show a willingness to invest in the stock... If Go-Ahead win they will probably rename it London Eastern with a very smart livery. If Stagecoach win it watch out for different liveries- red on 315s (though they won't last long so perhaps not) maybe blue for the 321s and the long distance livery for the turbostars etc...

Stagecoach might order 444s for Norwich-London with a follow up order for South West Trains!

I think Virgin will retain the West Coast there will be too much outcry if they lost it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First are perhaps the most disliked operator look at FCC and FGW.

I think East Coast is later in 2012 although perhaps 2013... 2013 will be busy with C2C/Northern and TPE to sort out, possibly FGW too. TPE could be extended though?

 

[gordonthemoron]

the NS logo is based on the BR logo

 

[NLC1072]

Anybody know of any specific dates for when we'll know who wins the bid? or even when they might start operating?

This question is a long shot I know lol

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it's a shame DB didn't get a shot at West Coast. No news on East Coast?

Why would there be any news on East Coast?

The prequalification process hasn't started yet, because the refranchising isn't due until late 2012 now. Under the last Government it was intended to be done about now, but in an announcement last December Hammond moved it back a year.

 

[jopsuk]

Impressed by the pre-qualified bidders for Greater Anglia. Both Go-Ahead and Stagecoach show a willingness to invest in the stock... If Go-Ahead win they will probably rename it London Eastern with a very smart livery. If Stagecoach win it watch out for different liveries- red on 315s (though they won't last long so perhaps not) maybe blue for the 321s and the long distance livery for the turbostars etc...

Stagecoach might order 444s for Norwich-London with a follow up order for South West Trains!

I think Virgin will retain the West Coast there will be too much outcry if they lost it

I think you're wrong, as the franchise under bid is a short interim position pending governmnet review of ranchises which may or may not recommend Chiltern-style long franchises. I think (I may be wrong) that it's only intended to be a two or three year franchise- so no new stock, any repainting likley to be finishing off the current push to get all the stock in base white and little else.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anybody know of any specific dates for when we'll know who wins the bid? or even when they might start operating?

This question is a long shot I know lol

WCML starts 01 April 2012. This date has been widely known for a couple of years.

Greater Anglia starts 05 Feb 2012.

This sort of information isn't a long shot, it takes a few seconds either to look it up directly on DfT's website, or by following the links in the first post of this thread via the Railway Eye blog...

The winning bid announcement is more flexible, but it will usually be announced about 5 or 6 months before start date, so late summer/autumn in these cases.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...I think (I may be wrong) that it's only intended to be a two or three year franchise- so no new stock, any repainting likley to be finishing off the current push to get all the stock in base white and little else.

It's a bit less than that:

The Greater Anglia franchise will commence on 5 February 2012 and will run for 17 months (expiring in July 2013) with an option to extend by up to 1 year.
This shorter franchise will allow time for reforms arising from the McNulty review into rail value for money to be properly considered and built into the terms of the subsequent Greater Anglia franchise.

 

[ApAp]

Why would there be any news on East Coast?

The prequalification process hasn't started yet, because the refranchising isn't due until late 2012 now. Under the last Government it was intended to be done about now, but in an announcement last December Hammond moved it back a year.

That's good news (never knew this myself). Personally I think East Coast should keep it until the end of the original GNER/NXEC franchise and re-let from there. There's been so much uncertainty on this route for both staff and customers that it'd be good to have a reasonable operator in charge for a while (whether or not the new catering changes are an improvement it's still better than what I could see Stagecoach, Govia, etc offering).

I'm glad that East Coast wasn't used to experiment with new approaches to franchising.

 

[NLC1072]

WCML starts 01 April 2012. This date has been widely known for a couple of years.

Greater Anglia starts 05 Feb 2012.

This sort of information isn't a long shot, it takes a few seconds either to look it up directly on DfT's website, or by following the links in the first post of this thread via the Railway Eye blog...

The winning bid announcement is more flexible, but it will usually be announced about 5 or 6 months before start date, so late summer/autumn in these cases.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



It's a bit less than that:

cheers!... I have no idea how to work the DFT website or that blog lol, but I guess I'll learn

 

[mumrar]

I don't quite get the Go-Ahead love in. They run London Midland and Southern and they are the top two cancelling TOCs. Go-Ahead shut down a shedload of Southern booking offices leaving a lot of situations we read about on this forum. They want to do exactly the same with London Midland now, as they realised there were some staff left that they hadn't alienated.

As for investment in stock, that is down to DfT approval and a ROSCO agreeing to pay for it, with the exception of leasing it, I don't see where the "they will invest in new stock" comes from.

 

[WillPS]

Why would there be any news on East Coast?

The prequalification process hasn't started yet, because the refranchising isn't due until late 2012 now. Under the last Government it was intended to be done about now, but in an announcement last December Hammond moved it back a year.

News to me. Why was it put back?

The Abellio logo (they took over Travel London buses from National Express) contains the Nederlandse Spoorwegen logo which seems to be based on a similar concept to the BR logo.

So the tickets will have the BR logo and the trains (if they get the franchise) will have the Dutch Railways logo on them, unless they use a different brand for their train services.

Abellio already part-own Northern and Merseyrail. Northern have recently started vinyl'ing their logo beneath the Northern name.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't quite get the Go-Ahead love in. They run London Midland and Southern and they are the top two cancelling TOCs. Go-Ahead shut down a shedload of Southern booking offices leaving a lot of situations we read about on this forum. They want to do exactly the same with London Midland now, as they realised there were some staff left that they hadn't alienated.

As for investment in stock, that is down to DfT approval and a ROSCO agreeing to pay for it, with the exception of leasing it, I don't see where the "they will invest in new stock" comes from.

Investing in stock ≠ investing in new stock.

Case in point: East Midlands Trains.

 

[tbtc]

Abellio already part-own Northern and Merseyrail. Northern have recently started vinyl'ing their logo beneath the Northern name

They (and Serco) have been careful in the past not to associate their "brand" with the Northern franchise. This may be because its not a glamerous franchise to associate your brand with (unlike, say, WCML which goes with the "fast" associations we have with the Virgin brand). They've done a good job on Northern, steady, unspectacular, stick with the core/basics, done nothing wrong, it will be interesting to see how they deal with all the exciting things like "new trains" which happen at other TOCs...

To me the East Anglia one won't be worth getting excited about, due to the very short nature, its going to be a "caretaker" role for the winning bidder.

The WCML one is the interesting one, and the lack of DB surprises me. There's little potential integration with ScotRail (if First one), but potential for some itnegration if Abellio win WCML (given the amount of Northern services whch connect with WCML trains at Carlisle/ Lancaster/ Preston/ Manchester/ Stockport/ Crewe etc). Especially if the Manchester Airport - Blackpool/Glasgow/Edinuburgh services move away from Transpennine at electrification...

 

[swt_passenger]

News to me. Why was it put back?

...A number of franchises will fall due for re-tendering over the next couple of years. Because we intend, typically, to let longer franchises of at least 15 years duration it is important that the reforms we wish to make following the McNulty review, the franchise consultation and the work of the high level group are incorporated into the terms of these franchises.

I therefore propose to use a short contract, openly competed during 2011, to run and improve services in the Greater Anglia franchise whilst we carry out this work. I then expect to award a new long term franchise for the operation of services in East Anglia to commence in 2013. In 2012, I propose to award a franchise to operate Inter City West Coast until the planned opening of HS2 in 2026. Then, in late 2012, I propose to award a franchise of 15 years to operate the East Coast Main Line services.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/hammond20101207

So the decision had equal prominence to the other two, I guess it wasn't reported as much in the rail mags?

 

[WillPS]

The WCML one is the interesting one, and the lack of DB surprises me. There's little potential integration with ScotRail (if First one), but potential for some itnegration if Abellio win WCML (given the amount of Northern services whch connect with WCML trains at Carlisle/ Lancaster/ Preston/ Manchester/ Stockport/ Crewe etc). Especially if the Manchester Airport - Blackpool/Glasgow/Edinuburgh services move away from Transpennine at electrification...

If they win the Northern franchise again, which itself is up in a couple of years (and liable for restructuring with TPE).

 

[tbtc]

If they win the Northern franchise again, which itself is up in a couple of years (and liable for restructuring with TPE).

True.

 

[O L Leigh]

Sources suggest that Go-Ahead, Stagecoach and Abellio have prequalified for the Greater Anglia franchise.

That's not a list to get excited about. Go-Ahead and Stagecoach have poor records when it comes to industrial relations. I have no idea about Abellio, but their links with Nederlandse Spoorwegen does not necessarily mean they'll have any more idea than any other.

O L Leigh

 

[sprinterguy]

So Great Eastern services look set to see their third bus operator running the trains since privatisation kicked in (First, NatEx, and now probably Stagecoach or Go-Ahead). Only a seventeen month franchise? It hardly seems worth it, the new operator will barely have time to settle into the “driving seat” before they’re out again, unless they retain the following longer franchise. Definitely a “caretaker” franchise, I doubt that the passengers will see much change.

It’s good to see some less familiar faces in the running for the West Coast franchise, and not just wall to wall bus companies (I’m not saying that bus operators running trains = bad in all cases, just that it’s nice to have a bit of variation). I’m surprised Go-ahead haven’t put a bid in to tie it in with their London Midland operations along the southern half of the WCML.

 

[WatcherZero]

Not surprising Nat Ex out really. The rest we cant really judge until we know their actual business plans which themselves wont be decided until the end of the Franchising reform consultation and the invitation to tender is put out in May.

 

[Zoe]

I expect Virgin will be in pole position to retain the West Coast franchise. Both the Great Western and East Cost franchises were retainted by First and GNER when they were retendered at the end of the first franchises. Don't forget also that Virgin completely replaced the fleet of trains and introduced the VHF timetable.

 

[wibble]

That's not a list to get excited about. Go-Ahead and Stagecoach have poor records when it comes to industrial relations.

Do Stagecoach have bad industrial relations? The last time they suffered from strike action was at least 4 years ago.... I think Go-Ahead have the worst record for industrial relations!

 

[Electrostar]

From a purely geeky design point of view, rather than the more important service point of view, it would be great to see Abellio prominently using NedRail's logo - or any logo - rather than the stylised typographic logos most operators present us with these days.

How is Abellio pronounced? Can't help but see tabloid puns on Abelli-ful if they win and run into problems.

Like I say a good service is more important and I echo views above that the GE franchise will be run as a "ghost" franchise with none of the big businesses prepared to add their corporate name to such a short franchise. I expect the "real" corporate identity only becoming apparent if the incumbent then goes on to win the next franchise round or dramatically improve the service. A bit like how GoVia trading as South Central weren't prepared to launch the Southern brand until new stock were in place and stations refurbished.

 

[lm321412]

If I had it my way, I wouldn't let Go-Ahead anywhere near after the recent farces with Southern and especially London Midland.

Wouldn't of it made more sense to of stayed with NXEA till 2013, then let the franchise out for around 10 years from there?

 

[Mojo]

How is Abellio pronounced? Can't help but see tabloid puns on Abelli-ful if they win and run into problems.

I just call them "Albino."

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/01/nedrail-to-become-albino.html

 

[WillPS]

Do Stagecoach have bad industrial relations? The last time they suffered from strike action was at least 4 years ago.... I think Go-Ahead have the worst record for industrial relations!

There were loads of BBQs in 2009.

 

[Zoe]

First are perhaps the most disliked operator look at FCC and FGW.

To be fair First turned FGW round to be one of the best TOCs and have certainly shown they can run an Intercity TOC. People may not like FCC but I doubt this will be taken into account when deciding the franchise. That said I still think Virgin are in pole position to retain the franchise.