Future of the Blackpool South line

[HSTEd]

How about conversion of the Blackpool South line with a new alignment following the river channel into Preston.
Moss Side station would be closed - their seems to be far more population further south than in that small village.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What is the combined population of Lytham and St Annes for starters plus anybody living on the line to Colne who doesn't use the train because it terminates too far out of Blackpool.

The days of the East Lancashire cotton town wakes weeks, so well portrayed in the 1952 film version of "Hindle Wakes", when hardly any mill worker owned a car, and when the train was the chosen mode to travel to Blackpool for the annual seaside holiday, are but a dim spark in the memory of one my age who actually recalled such annual events.

Are you aware that for those in East Lancashire with a car, there is now the M65 motorway, which connects to the M6 and the subsequent final run on the M55. If anyone from that area used the train, what would be the rolling stock that would be provided from Colne onwards these days?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How about conversion of the Blackpool South line with a new alignment following the river channel into Preston. Moss Side station would be closed - their seems to be far more population further south than in that small village.

Any financial projections available for such a project, especially noting the type of ground that is near to the river? When the approaches into Preston draw near, has there not been much recent land redevelopment in that area.

 

[HSTEd]

Any financial projections available for such a project, especially noting the type of ground that is near to the river? When the approaches into Preston draw near, has there not been much recent land redevelopment in that area.

Indeed, I very much doubt it would ever be viable.
But probably not much less expensive than many of the heavy rail proposals on offer here.

If we are getting the crayons out, we should get the crayons out.

 

[Flying Claret]

Those living in the larger towns, i.e. Blackburn, Accrington and Burnley could always catch the York - Blackpool North service.

I live in accy, and that's exactly what we do. Much quicker service and better quality of trains.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Indeed, I very much doubt it would ever be viable.
But probably not much less expensive than many of the heavy rail proposals on offer here.

If we are getting the crayons out, we should get the crayons out.

Sharpened my green crayon...
A road and rail bridge / barrage across the River Ribble not far from Lytham would be nice, Southport and Liverpool is only across the water!!
Probably will be built one day, unlikely during my lifetime. zzz

 

[Lankyline]

Sharpened my green crayon...
A road and rail bridge / barrage across the River Ribble not far from Lytham would be nice, Southport and Liverpool is only across the water!!
Probably will be built one day, unlikely during my lifetime. zzz

Much talked about but unlikely to happen even in the next lifetime !

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Sharpened my green crayon...
A road and rail bridge / barrage across the River Ribble not far from Lytham would be nice, Southport and Liverpool is only across the water!!
Probably will be built one day, unlikely during my lifetime. zzz

Much talked about but unlikely to happen even in the next lifetime !

It would only get built in conjunction with a Road bridge IMHO. It would be an M65 extension and loop around to the M55 and would need a bridge across the Ribble. Being really brave they could continue it through the Fylde and loop back to the M6 around the Brock/Garstang area eliminating Broughton etc and the mess that is the A6/6/M55 etc. Thousands of homes being built which is why there are plans for a railway station at Cottam. I am sure any Blackpool South trains would call at Cottam too. Sorry to be a little OT.

 

[Lankyline]

It would only get built in conjunction with a Road bridge IMHO. It would be an M65 extension and loop around to the M55 and would need a bridge across the Ribble. Being really brave they could continue it through the Fylde and loop back to the M6 around the Brock/Garstang area eliminating Broughton etc and the mess that is the A6/6/M55 etc. Thousands of homes being built which is why there are plans for a railway station at Cottam. I am sure any Blackpool South trains would call at Cottam too. Sorry to be a little OT.

They've been talking about a crossing for nearly 30 years ! and that's all it is, talk. The plan was centred around taking road traffic over a bridge somewhere between Longton marshes and Howick Cross and connecting on the other side near Freckleton.

The Broughton bypass will eliminate some of the issues around M6/M55, LCC missed the boat to sort this decades ago! The Blackpool south line will always remain a poor relation to North unless they decide to put in a dynamic loop, track upgrades etc not a lot else you can do now since Beeching & Blackpool council got involved:roll:

 

[PR1Berske]

To avoid this threat entering the realm of fantasy beyond the wardrobe, I think we can all agree that there will not be a new bridge built over the Ribble this side of the Heat Death of the Universe.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

To avoid this threat entering the realm of fantasy beyond the wardrobe, I think we can all agree that there will not be a new bridge built over the Ribble this side of the Heat Death of the Universe.

Would that be the first Heat Death or the subsequent one ?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

To avoid this threat entering the realm of fantasy beyond the wardrobe, I think we can all agree that there will not be a new bridge built over the Ribble this side of the Heat Death of the Universe.

A bridge is very unlikely! But exploring the full spectrum, and not always logical HM Government decisions, there is a possibility of a barrage across the R Ribble.
Spending money on the South line appears light years away.
A link to a facebook page with lots of picture of South and Central stations, sad example of how to lay to waste billions £'s worth of transport infrastructure!!
(The 'old' South Station was on Lytham Road before the skew bridge, near Station Road, moved when the Marton line was built) https://www.facebook.com/search/str...mYTU5YTFjYjZkOWY0NTBkMzg5MjQyNGU0OSJ9&qsefr=1

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A bridge is very unlikely! But exploring the full spectrum, and not always logical HM Government decisions, there is a possibility of a barrage across the R Ribble.

I do wonder what would be the infrastructural cost differences be between a standard barrage to aid renewable energy and such a barrage that would also carry rail or road services atop it?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I do wonder what would be the infrastructural cost differences be between a standard barrage to aid renewable energy and such a barrage that would also carry rail or road services atop it?

Good point. I would imagine a lot more. Probably there would be a pedestrian access anyway.
For road /rail there would have be a lifting or swing bridge (vessels/ navigation)
They would have to have lock gates in either case.

 

[johnnychips]

For road /rail there would have be a lifting or swing bridge (vessels/ navigation)
They would have to have lock gates in either case.

Do ships use the Ribble?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Do ships use the Ribble?

Doesn't matter - it's a navigable waterway, so typically a headroom of 23-25m at MHW will be demanded by the Admiralty.

 

[Western Lord]

Doesn't matter - it's a navigable waterway, so typically a headroom of 23-25m at MHW will be demanded by the Admiralty.

The Admiralty? How quaint, it hasn't existed for more than fifty years!

 

[randyrippley]

Do ships use the Ribble?

No. Docks / harbour abandoned around 20 years ago to save on dredging costs. Now just a pleasure craft marina

 

[randyrippley]

Doesn't matter - it's a navigable waterway, so typically a headroom of 23-25m at MHW will be demanded by the Admiralty.

Don't think it is any more - as far as I can remember navigation rights ceased when the docks were abandoned

 

[Joseph_Locke]

The Admiralty? How quaint, it hasn't existed for more than fifty years!

ORLY?

 

[HSTEd]

The Admiralty? How quaint, it hasn't existed for more than fifty years!

The Admiralty Board itself does not exist - but the Admiralty infrastructure still remains.

 

[Sox]

Do ships use the Ribble?

River Ribble still gets used for occasional, abnormal load, deliveries:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12660254

http://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2016/05/watch-as-preston-docks-swing-back-into-life-for-giant-transformer-arrival/

 

[Howardh]

Do ships use the Ribble?

As anaside, my old man suggests that once there was a hovercraft service between Southport and Lytham (or appropriate places).
Was this true?

 

[Elecman]

As anaside, my old man suggests that once there was a hovercraft service between Southport and Lytham (or appropriate places).
Was this true?

Yes, but it was Southport to Squires Gate

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As anaside, my old man suggests that once there was a hovercraft service between Southport and Lytham (or appropriate places).
Was this true?

Yes, there was a hovercraft operation in the 1970s.

 

[HSTEd]

A Tidal Barrage with a road and tramway on top would be a good option in the very long term.

Tidal barrages with state finance produce electricity at almost negligible prices due to the enormous lifetime (120 years for the bulk of the capital) leading to the capital on the construction loan dissapearing. [Index linked gilts have a negative interest rate, so in real terms the interest rate is negative]. The O&M cost of such plants comes out as low as 0.7p/kWh.
So even if it all gets used to heat gigantic industrial storage heaters to replace natural gas it is still a great deal.

But that requires a very long term view.

 

[Sox]

Would the upstream side of a tidal barrage not rapidly silt up, rendering it useless for generation (silting being one of the reasons for the dock's demise in the first place)?

 

[route:oxford]

Would the upstream side of a tidal barrage not rapidly silt up, rendering it useless for generation (silting being one of the reasons for the dock's demise in the first place)?

That all depends on the engineering of the barrage, and ongoing maintenance.

Not forgetting that there is money in minerals.

 

[HSTEd]

Would the upstream side of a tidal barrage not rapidly silt up, rendering it useless for generation (silting being one of the reasons for the dock's demise in the first place)?

Not necessarily - that depends on the engineering of the barrage as people have said.
Additionally any volume below the (post barrage) low tide mark is available to absorb silt without reducing the amount of water that can flow through the barrage in each cycle.
It would take some substantial time for that volume to fill, and even then dredging would probably be a low cost method of maintaining storage volume.

 

[Sox]

Nothing against a barrage as such but I have an interest in the impact of silting in this area.

By comparison with old photographs and maps, it is evident that this part of the Fylde coast has been topographically altered due to heavy silting.

As a couple of examples, silting has enabled significant land reclamation on the southern bank of the Ribble estuary and old photographs show vessels moored up at the St. Anne's pier-end (not possible now due to the loss of draught).

Anecdotally, the outer basin of Preston dock is also becoming badly silted.

The real problem is the vast quantities of materials that come down the Ribble. A barrage would lead to the water movement being rapidly arrested with the attendant deposition of same.

Not to say a barrage wouldn't work for electricity generation but only for a limited timescale before the loss of upstream volume rendered the operation uneconomic.

Dredging would be an act of futility as it is very expensive and generally only used for the maintenance of discrete channels for navigation.