Gangs of drinkers blighting York and trains from York

[yorkie]

From: http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/992...ms_that_gangs_of_drinkers_are_blighting_York/

Landlord backs claims that gangs of drinkers are blighting York

LARGE groups of binge drinkers descending on York from the north east for a boozy Saturday are a “blight on the city” a York landlord has said.

Shaun Collinge, landlord of The Maltings, agreed with concerned traders from Micklegate who spoke to The Press last week about problems there with a growing number of stag and hen parties visiting York, and said the issue affected other areas of the city centre.

He said his pub, in Tanner’s Moat, which specialises in real ale and continental beers, has had to employ security staff all day on a Saturday to cope with the increase in large groups visiting The Maltings on their way into the city centre.

Mr Collinge said most groups were looking to get drunk as quickly and as cheaply as possible. As a result, they would usually would stay for one drink and leave because The Maltings does not serve the drinks they want or offer cheap promotions.

He said: “They have no respect for anything or anybody and they have a pack mentality when there are ten or 12 of them out.”

He said the aggression was generally verbal when they were asked to adhere to the pubs no-swearing and no-singing policies, and they intimidated regular customers.

He said: “I feel sorry for people who take this beautiful city for what it is and get a bunch of morons who just want to get drunk as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible. It’s a blight on our city.”

First TransPennine Express said alcohol was banned from its 7.27pm and 8.28pm York to Middlesbrough trains on Saturdays, the only services the company has to make alcohol free.

It also deploys additional staff and security officers to police the service, it said.

(Click here for full article)

The Grand Central 1907 King's Cross - Sunderland is also alcohol free from York and they stop selling alcohol from 2030. I've got this train a few times.

If you attempt to alight from the front of the train, which is where the gangs board, they form a ring around the door and initially refuse to budge. You have to fight your way past the louts.

Today I alighted from the rear, so I did not witness that phenomenon, but another forum member got off the front and confirmed that this happened as he got out.

I always tell them what I think of them!

I also got my own back on the louts as some blokes had cans of Strongbow, I politely informed one of them that no alcohol is permitted on board. He told me they were non-alcoholic (yeah right, one of the cans was unopened with clear Strongbow branding!), so I said "OK then"... the police (who boarded the train at York) got him I see the train was delayed at Thirsk... I wonder if some louts were removed (if so, I hope they're stranded for the night).

I got one of the TPEs heading towards Middlesbrough a few months ago, and a forum member who was working the train encouraged passengers continuing beyond York to go into 1st class to stay away from the louts. I didn't realise how bad it would be until I got off that train.

I understand there are also problems with Whitby - Middlesbrough trains.

As a society we need to be much tougher on these individuals.

 

[ainsworth74]

The last one or two York - Middlesbroughs are alcohol-free for this exact reason. Personally I've only come across it once the morning after New Year's Eve (so that would be New Year's Day I guess ) I made the mistake of sitting at a table seat next to a group of four. They weren't too bad, once I made it clear what my football allegiance was, though they did come up with a rather unflattering nickname for me (which I won't repeat here). That being said it would have been a much better trip without them.

I have to say that I totally agree that this kind of behaviour should be unacceptable.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I avoid them at all costs, luckily I don't have that many late night retruns on my travels, and I do my best to plan around football / horse racing fixtures, I find these to be the worst in mass. Of course, things like stag and hen nights are annoying too, why they can't leave other passengers alone is beyond me. As with yorkie and ainsworth74, it is totally unacceptable.

They weren't too bad, once I made it clear what my football allegiance was,

Never had you down as a football fan. I never breathe a word of who I support if someone asks, unless I can see that they support them too.

 

[ainsworth74]

Never had you down as a football fan. I never breathe a word of who I support if someone asks, unless I can see that they support them too.

I'm not really (I follow the results of my local team after every round or so of matches but that's it) but the question was framed in terms of "you support 'boro don't you!?" so it was easier to just say yes than anything else!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There were announcements on my EC northbound service from Kings Cross to Newcastle this evening, repeated maybe 4 times, that alcohol was prohibited in York station this evening.

 

[calc7]

Why is York in particular such a problem (and not Leeds, just 25 minutes beyond)?
And these are trains from York - are we saying that these Teessideans have been boozing in York all day and making a nuisance on their way back up?

 

[deltic1989]

If any of them are Scottish, then I may have the solution. I do believe that it is still legal in York to shoot a drunk Scotsman with a bow and arrow.

Joking aside, I have never experienced the above in York. But I have elsewhere, and it is irritating when a crowd of drunks comes along and starts shouting and swearing.
It especially annoys me when I have my children with me, as my eldest is 5 I would rather that they were not exposed to the behavior of these people.
Thankfully I have only been in this situation once with my children and a polite word to a man who seemed to be the leader of the group produced an apology for the language (to me and to my children) and that was that.
I think that other areas could do with banning alcohol on late services as this may go some way to kerbing anti-social behavior on trains at night.
I'm not saying that people can't go out and enjoy themselves, but boozed up louts (for want of a better phrase) are an intimidating prospect for the late night traveler.

 

[455driver]

Why do they do it?

Because they can and they know the law will protect them, just look what happened in Scotland with "the big man" who "assisted" a scrote off the train, since then no member of the public will help staff so the scummies can run riot knowing there is very little 1 (or 2) members of staff can do.

I trust everyone who said the big man was out of order and should have been prosecuted is happy about the situation now.

 

[scotsman]

I always tell them what I think of them!

With the utmost respect, that's a really daft thing to do - you're just asking for trouble doing that.

I also got my own back on the louts as some blokes had cans of Strongbow, I politely informed one of them that no alcohol is permitted on board.

As above, it just gets you the wrong sort of attention from these idiots. You know I work in a pub, I don't have a problem with drunks until I get outside - there's always a few from the clubs when I finish at 0230. Keep your head down, let someone who can do something about it know when you're well out the way!

As a society we need to be much tougher on these individuals.

Agreed. I think little will change until there's a regular uniformed presence on these trains - either we give Guards SIA training (erm, nope...that's not their job) or we get private security onboard. A uniform is a ridiculously good deterrent: my work uniform is a black shirt. I sat in First (with a ScR Advance card) one night on a train that was full and standing - only two others sat in there. When I left the compartment, and it was clear I was getting off, someone standing next to the compartment went straight in.

 

[yorksrob]

I can remember once on the WCML (pre-pendolino days) there was quite a raucus hen doo in my carriage encompassing loud hysterical laughter and an unsavoury rhyme about a pheasant plucker.

I didn't mind this, but was quite put out when they stank the whole carriage out with a stilton

I have been known to dip into the Maltings for a single pint on a Saturday and move on, but that tends to be due to there being nowhere to perch.

 

[Greenback]

Individuals like these certainly need to be dealt with in a tougher manner. This problem is quite widespread and I have experienced Saturday night anti social behaviour in Cornwall, where I naively thought such incidents would be pretty minor!

(It goes without saying that there is a lot of this in South Wales!).

Attitudes to drinking and the culture of drinking alcohol in this country need to change. Over the last thirty years there has been a marked change in attitude to such things as smoking and drink driving, perhaps binge drinking needs to be stigmatised int he same way?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having seen first hand what these stag parties, hen nights, end of school-term 6th form gatherings etc, can be like on Friday nights and Saturday nights in Newquay, which has seemed to accept the fact that Newquay is a fulcrum point for all parts of Cornwall for this to happen and the subsequent annoyance caused. in return for the financial gains available, York has my deepest sympathy.

York is a far more mature place (well, anywhere is more mature than Newquay) with a world-wide tourist presence and as such, should be aware of the consequences of not having enough constabulary presence to counter such occasions.

 

[Greenback]

Saturday nights are usually worse than Fridays, as there is more chance that those involved will have been taking the opportunity to drink all day. I shudder when I think of some of the things I have seen on relatively early trains between Cardiff and Llanelli, even when sporting events are not involved.

 

[Aldaniti]

I no longer travel by train between Manchester and York because of this problem. I was once a frequent user at weekends. There's also the ale trail clientele to contend with which often makes things unpleasant at various points between Huddersfield and Manchester. Unfortunately the journey across the M62 is much more agreeable.

 

[2Dogbox]

I work trains regularly on Friday nights and Saturdays in my area. Some are ok but Saturdays always bring out the gangs of intimidating drunks, usually groups of men old enough to know better. Add to this the dreadful squeals of cackling groups of women on hen parties, and the screaming of chavlings in tow with some awful examples of parenting and some trains are dreadful. I put up with working them. . . But as a passenger it would do my head in. If I was a passenger who was not intoxicated or a chav, I'd avoid Friday nights and Saturdays. ... As for those poor 'ordinary' folks who have to travel with the rabble, they have my deepest sympathy.

 

[calc7]

I no longer travel by train between Manchester and York because of this problem. I was once a frequent user at weekends. There's also the ale trail clientele to contend with which often makes things unpleasant at various points between Huddersfield and Manchester. Unfortunately the journey across the M62 is much more agreeable.

Agreed - the TPE services between York and Manchester are particularly unsavoury at weekends.

The M62 is empty enough over the weekend and has to be one of the most exciting stretches of high speed road in the country - I love it.

 

[anthony263]

Individuals like these certainly need to be dealt with in a tougher manner. This problem is quite widespread and I have experienced Saturday night anti social behaviour in Cornwall, where I naively thought such incidents would be pretty minor!

(It goes without saying that there is a lot of this in South Wales!).

Attitudes to drinking and the culture of drinking alcohol in this country need to change. Over the last thirty years there has been a marked change in attitude to such things as smoking and drink driving, perhaps binge drinking needs to be stigmatised int he same way?

I have seen the problems on the 04:00 Swansea - London Paddington service on saturday mornings (One reason why I pay a little bit more and travel in
1st class).

I have felt sorry for normal people travling on this service and the poor staff who try they best to keep the drunks out of the 1st class carriages

I dread to think what it is like on the Fishguard train when it departs Swansea at 03:30 on a sunday morning on its journey to Cardiff and the same could be said with the 04:35 Swansea - Shrewsbury service on saturday mornings

 

[Greenback]

I have felt sorry for normal people travling on this service and the poor staff who try they best to keep the drunks out of the 1st class carriages

I dread to think what it is like on the Fishguard train when it departs Swansea at 03:30 on a sunday morning on its journey to Cardiff and the same could be said with the 04:35 Swansea - Shrewsbury service on saturday mornings

Fortunately, I can only imagine what those trains are like, and I have no intention fo ever finding out if I can help it!

I do, however, feel very sorry for the staff who have to try andd eal with any situations on these and other similar services across the country.

 

[Butts]

I have seen the problems on the 04:00 Swansea - London Paddington service on saturday mornings (One reason why I pay a little bit more and travel in
1st class).

I have felt sorry for normal people travling on this service and the poor staff who try they best to keep the drunks out of the 1st class carriages

I dread to think what it is like on the Fishguard train when it departs Swansea at 03:30 on a sunday morning on its journey to Cardiff and the same could be said with the 04:35 Swansea - Shrewsbury service on saturday mornings

Don't they have a BTP presence at Abertawe ? - perhaps they could prevent people boarding or have a presence onboard if this is a regular occurence.

 

[Greenback]

Don't they have a BTP presence at Abertawe ? - perhaps they could prevent people boarding or have a presence onboard if this is a regular occurence.

Yes they do, and according to Flamingo the BTP do regularly travel on the 0400 HSt, but I'm not sure about the early Heart of Wales train.

Of course, the presence of the police is no guarantee that there won't be any trouble, but I'm sure it helps to have someone there to help to deal with it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I dread to think what it is like on the Fishguard train when it departs Swansea at 03:30 on a Sunday morning on its journey to Cardiff and the same could be said with the 04:35 Swansea - Shrewsbury service on Saturday mornings

I have visions of these unruly types being carried against their will and forcibly ejected at Sugar Loaf station. I cannot imagine anything worse than being stranded there in the unearthly hours of Saturday morning..

 

[tbtc]

If the topic of "why don't staff work on Sundays" has apparently been done to death (hence the recent thread being locked) then surely this has too?

Recent threads including the drunker behaviour on the "trans pennine" ale trail and the alcohol ban on Scottish trains.

My answer would be the same as ever, which is the hypocritical one about how it's okay for the likes of me to drink on trains, but the likes of *them* shouldn't (which, lets face it is the answer that most people have - they want the freedom to enjoy a drink without having to deal with drunks)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the topic of "why don't staff work on Sundays" has apparently been done to death (hence the recent thread being locked) then surely this has too?....Recent threads including the drunken behaviour on the "trans pennine" ale trail and the alcohol ban on Scottish trains.

I think that yorkie would have considered this matter before opening this new thread.

 

[David]

I would just like to point out to the mods and admins that this topic has been discussed in depth quite a few times before, and that it isn't worth discussing yet again.

As far as I can see, there is only a few possible suggestions to cut down and such behavior.

1. Ban alcohol on all public transport in the UK, except your just pushing the problem onto the streets then.

2. Make it illegal to be drunk in a public place - May as well close all pubs and bars then.

3. Ban alcohol completely - You just end up in a situation like the USA during prohibition where black marketers make massive profits.

 

[Robinson]

If the topic of "why don't staff work on Sundays" has apparently been done to death (hence the recent thread being locked) then surely this has too?

Recent threads including the drunker behaviour on the "trans pennine" ale trail and the alcohol ban on Scottish trains.

My answer would be the same as ever, which is the hypocritical one about how it's okay for the likes of me to drink on trains, but the likes of *them* shouldn't (which, lets face it is the answer that most people have - they want the freedom to enjoy a drink without having to deal with drunks)

That's exactly the point though - there are those of us who are able to drink responsibly and who don't over-indulge to the point where we act like idiots. And yes, I do count myself as one of those responsible drinkers.

When there's a right, there's a responsibility not to abuse that right. And I'm afraid there isn't really a better answer that I can think of, than to get tough with those who abuse their rights and ignore their responsibilities.

 

[Greenback]

I would just like to point out to the mods and admins that this topic has been discussed in depth quite a few times before, and that it isn't worth discussing yet again.

As far as I can see, there is only a few possible suggestions to cut down and such behavior.

1. Ban alcohol on all public transport in the UK, except your just pushing the problem onto the streets then.

2. Make it illegal to be drunk in a public place - May as well close all pubs and bars then.

3. Ban alcohol completely - You just end up in a situation like the USA during prohibition where black marketers make massive profits.

This thread deals with particular trains, and what appears to be an increase in anti social behaviour at one particular place. While a rehash of previous discussions may result, it does add something new, even if only whether to see how anti social behaviour has spread to other places.

Alcohol isn't the problem, though, it's the deep seated attitude to alcohol, an example of which is the fact that many people are unable to go the racing at Ascot without embarking on a marathon all day drinking session, the result of which, for some, is a complete mess.

 

[tbtc]

That's exactly the point though - there are those of us who are able to drink responsibly and who don't over-indulge to the point where we act like idiots. And yes, I do count myself as one of those responsible drinkers.

When there's a right, there's a responsibility not to abuse that right. And I'm afraid there isn't really a better answer that I can think of, than to get tough with those who abuse their rights and ignore their responsibilities.

I think I'm a responsible drinker too, but then so do most people (if you asked them), it's tricky

This thread deals with particular trains, and what appears to be an increase in anti social behaviour at one particular place. While a rehash of previous discussions may result, it does add something new, even if only whether to see how anti social behaviour has spread to other places

I appreciate that there's a tricky balance, but these threads quickly become general, even if they start off discussing lack of Sunday staff at LM or drinking problems at York.

 

[David]

This thread deals with particular trains, and what appears to be an increase in anti social behaviour at one particular place. While a rehash of previous discussions may result, it does add something new, even if only whether to see how anti social behaviour has spread to other places.

The last time a topic like this came up, IIRC was about the Cardiff area, and very quickly became a "general drinking problem" thread, something which happened very quickly in this topic. IE. post 10 talking about a past event on the WCML and yourself in post 11 talking about what it's like in Newquay.

Personally, I don't believe there is a binge drinking problem in the UK, it is (as always) the small minority who take things too far and generate the bad press for every other drinker. The minority differs in size depending on what part of the country you are in, but as I say, it is the minority who cause all the trouble.

Of course, the problem is highlighted too much in my opinion, with the advent of social media and the proliferation of TV channels, with programmes such as "Brits behind bars" and "Brits behaving badly abroad", as well as all the programmes that follow the police (Roadwars, Britcops, etc). They tend to focus on just 2 or 3 areas, and blow everything out of proportion.

Here in Scunthorpe, yes, there are people who do go to far once they have had a drink (or 10), but once again, it is a small minority who cause the problems, all of whom are dealt with swiftly.

Anyway, enough from me, I'm off out for a few beers! See you all just after 11.

 

[Robinson]

I think I'm a responsible drinker too, but then so do most people (if you asked them), it's tricky

Provided that you stay in control of your drink and don't behave irresponsibly or worse as a result of it, I would agree, at least for the purposes of the matter in hand - most of us would probably agree that people's specific drinking habits aren't of any particular concern to us; what is of concern is the lout behaviour which goes hand-in-hand with excessive drinking.

 

[yorkie]

If the topic of "why don't staff work on Sundays" has apparently been done to death (hence the recent thread being locked) then surely this has too?

It's not just that subject has been done to death but the fact it causes so many arguments as some people use those threads to provoke rail staff, but let's not go there in this thread!

My answer would be the same as ever, which is the hypocritical one about how it's okay for the likes of me to drink on trains, but the likes of *them* shouldn't (which, lets face it is the answer that most people have - they want the freedom to enjoy a drink without having to deal with drunks)

Unfortunately when you see the behaviour that goes on, you then realise that these measures (and more) have to be taken. I am sure all decent people can accept not being able to drink on a particular train if it helps combat the problem. I am sure anyone can cope without the 'freedom' to drink while on a train.

I started the thread because it was a news story that had only recently appeared in our local paper, and I witnessed the anti-social behaviour myself last night. I am sure the likes of Wensley will have experienced it too, plus the forum members who work trains out of York on Saturday nights (though they may choose not to reply because posting about matters directly relating to your employers 'customers' can be unwise, and I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for stating what many of us are thinking about these louts).