GB Railfreight in 'locomotive acquisition' talks

[BRX]

Are the 60s effectively ready to go, or do they plan to do any work on them before they come into service? And what workings do we expect them to start appearing on?

 

[DarloRich]

I think it's great if you were involved in getting a deltic running on the mainline. I certainly am grateful for all the people that put time and effort into things like that. Surely you can see why it's odd to claim you have no time for sentimentality or nostalgia if you have been involved in something that is not to do with the efficient commercial operations of the modern railway.

It was a very small part of my job. As for special trains - surely they are the most commercial services on our system. They will only run as long as people buy tickets!

There are certainly people around who say there should be no historic traction on the mainline because it risks disrupting day to day operations and surely it's the same mindset that berates people for taking some joy in the sights or sounds of the railway. As it happens I think that our railways would perform considerably less well if there were no-one who cared about them beyond purely commercial considerations.

I think there is a different argument between preservation and normal operations. I like to see old machinery, buildings and items preserved as they allow people to see how people lived and worked in the past. It helps us appreciate how our world developed, how people survived and developed and how we got where we are today. Obviously the whole preservation industry trades on nostalgia and some kind of false halycon day where the sky was always blue, the sun shone, the trains were always on time, a little tank engine chuffed up a little branch line to the sea, stands the church clock at ten to three? And is there honey still for tea?

Personally I am more interested in history than pretending everything was better in them olden days because it wasn't.

If GBRf started making decisions on the re-engining of their locos based on what sounds the best, obviously that would be stupid. No-one's suggesting they should though, just commenting on their personal preferences and what they'll miss about the original engines. Some people seem to have a problem with that, even calling folk 'weirdos'. Bizzare on what is a rail enthusiasts' forum.

It shows, if i may, the difference between train spotters and professionals.

could you imagine the outcry if the Deltic Preservation Society suggested swapping out the Napiers for a 645, or any other 3300hp engine?

So what happens when parts for the existing engines dry up or emissions regs change to such a degree that the engine becomes illegal? That's the point. There is a desire on the part of "enthusiasts" to preserve everything in aspic ensure that nothing changes. Ever.

( not that I am suggesting this will happen, just that the idea that it could should not be dismissed out of hand)

 

[mushroomchow]

Not sure why anybody could possibly get hung up on engine replacements if it keeps 56s on the mainline.

If you're that bothered and involved with the right people, get in touch with GBRf and get them to donate a few engines to heritage railways for future preservation re-engining / spares.

I'm more interested in the 60s myself and where they'll run in my locale, since they were common on the MML until fairly recently. Do GBRf still run any of the Mountsorrel Granite contracts or is it all DBS now?

 

[DarloRich]

GBRf have officially confirmed the acquisition of 10 Class 60s from Colas Rail. They've been sold to and leased back from Beacon Rail:

Are these additional locos to those under discussion above? GBRF are being very ambitious and must be confident of securing more work.

If you're that bothered and involved with the right people, get in touch with GBRf and get them to donate a few engines to heritage railways for future preservation re-engining / spares.

indeed

 

[Rail Blues]

could you imagine the outcry if the Deltic Preservation Society suggested swapping out the Napiers for a 645, or any other 3300hp engine?

They are preserved heritage locos, 56s are working locos: world of difference

 

[hwl]

Are these additional locos to those under discussion above? GBRF are being very ambitious and must be confident of securing more work.



indeed

The same 10x Colas 60s previously discussed.

GBRf - post change in ownership there appears to be more cash to invest and the new 66 option is no longer there.
DB and FL both have (or had) spare capacity after the collapse in Coal traffic where as GBRf did very little coal work overall hence GBRf has to invest to be able to go for medium or large contracts the big one will be some of the HS2 construction haulage (I can see it being split at least 2 ways and GBRf obviously want some of it.)

DB have some 66s and plenty of 60s "idle" and FL are getting the 70s back in action so the big three are preparing. It is also perfectly possible that the winners of the HS2 work might scale back on some of their other contracts e.g. at retenedering time or not bid for other new work so there will be a bit of redistribution.

 

[DarloRich]

DB and FL both have (or had) spare capacity after the collapse in Coal traffic where as GBRf did very little coal work overall hence GBRf has to invest to be able to go for medium or large contracts the big one will be some of the HS2 construction haulage (I can see it being split at least 2 ways and GBRf obviously want some of it.)

GBRF are winning work hand over fist at present before the HS2 contracts are even considered

 

[hwl]

GBRF are winning work hand over fist at present before the HS2 contracts are even considered

New work or just wins from the other operators when contracts are up for renewal (e.g. Caledonian Sleeper)

 

[DarloRich]

New work or just wins from the other operators when contracts are up for renewal (e.g. Caledonian Sleeper)

bit of both. New or existing the work still has to be won which suggests GBRF are sharp on their commercial operation and customer service!

 

[hwl]

bit of both. New or existing the work still has to be won which suggests GBRF are sharp on their commercial operation and customer service!

Cheers,
I guess the other thing to bear in mind is that coal was only just behind aggregates in tonnes of cargo per unit length of train. If the new cargo is in anything but aggregates the additional new tonnage will require more services than coal to shift the same tonnage (and hence more locomotives /wagons/drivers than the coal tonnage that has disappeared.) Noting that many are maxed out on length these days (e.g. Intermodal). Hence beware of just looking at tonnage figures.

 

[DarloRich]

Cheers,
I guess the other thing to bear in mind is that coal was only just behind aggregates in tonnes of cargo per unit length of train. If the new cargo is in anything but aggregates the additional new tonnage will require more services than coal to shift the same tonnage (and hence more locomotives /wagons/drivers than the coal tonnage that has disappeared.) Noting that many are maxed out on length these days (e.g. Intermodal)

A good point.

I think it is a good thing that a company is ambitious and successful enough to feel it can expand to win more work. The freight sector has struggled with the decline of coal and steel so any good news is a real positive.

 

[GB]

Intermodal lengths are not necessarily maxed out. They already run over length so no reason why you couldn't add a few more wagons providing the timings still work. Interesting to also note that GBRf have modified quite a few Biomass wagons to run on some coal circuits...so coal not quite dead and buried yet.

 

[ScottDarg]

And what workings do we expect them to start appearing on?

I've not seen anything definite regarding what they'll work, only speculation.

60085 is off to Tuebrook: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00778/2018/08/14/advanced

 

[ac6000cw]

bit of both. New or existing the work still has to be won which suggests GBRF are sharp on their commercial operation and customer service!

Agreed - it's very noticeable these days just how much intermodal traffic in/out of Felixstowe is GBRF rather than FL (and DBS seems well into 3rd place). They've come a long way in 18 years...

 

[cj_1985]

Agreed - it's very noticeable these days just how much intermodal traffic in/out of Felixstowe is GBRF rather than FL (and DBS seems well into 3rd place). They've come a long way in 18 years...

That could be because FL and DB seem to have focussed on services from London Gateway recently (last 2 years)

 

[daccer]

Is there anyway of estimating how much work HS2 will generate - are there numbers included in planning apps or proposals etc? Maybe looking at the French construction example will allow some estimates to be made.

With coal having been run down so quickly the bigger companies do have some capacity available especially in hopper wagons and heavy haulage. It will be interesting to see how long before this disappears with aggregates continuing to increase year on year. With the doubling of part of the Felixstowe line and proposed service increases spare class 66 capacity will be sucked up. I have seen mentioned elsewhere possible disposals from DB of more demic class 60's from Toton. Maybe HS2 is going to be a driver for bringing some of these back.

 

[43096]

aren't you a smart rse.

Mainly because of all the photos I had that fitted the avatar template and were of a suitable resolution that was the one that needed the least work and I was involved in a tiny way in planning that train and i was a passenger. I hope that is an acceptable reason for you.

PS another poster missing the point.

Scrap the talc-chucking junk. Or re-engine it with something modern and clean....

You are the one missing the point.

 

[GB]

Agreed - it's very noticeable these days just how much intermodal traffic in/out of Felixstowe is GBRF rather than FL (and DBS seems well into 3rd place). They've come a long way in 18 years...

When I first started only 4 Monday to Friday GB intermodals for the whole company and nothing on the weekends. This is now 8 trains Monday to to Friday with a 9th due to start soon and a 10th being worked on...also 3 WTT trains out of Felixstowe on a Saturday plus a weekday service out of Southampton and another out of Gateway. Still along way from what Freightliner operate though and I am surprised DB still run their Wakefield service.

 

[xotGD]

GBRf have officially confirmed the acquisition of 10 Class 60s from Colas Rail. They've been sold to and leased back from Beacon Rail:

http://railtube.info/2018/08/gb-rai...0-class-60-locomotives-with-beacon-rail-gbrf/

An update on the WNXX news page this morning states that 60047, 60076, 60085, 60087 & 60095 are now in the GBRT pool with 66745.

Those already transferred to GBRf have been partially de-branded (https://flic.kr/p/MUz2PS) and training has started. Location of each 60 as of this morning (according to Railcam at least):

• 60002: Working 6L44 Oxwellmains to West Thurrock
• 60021: Toton
• 60026: Toton
• 60047: Doncaster
• 60056: Toton
• 60076: Doncaster
• 60085: Doncaster
• 60087: Doncaster
• 60095: Whitemoor Yard
• 60096: Toton

EDIT: 60085 ran to Tuebrook sidings this afternoon.

Sorry to digress, but can anyone supply details of the mentioned 'Flying Dustman' service from Leeds?

 

[DarloRich]

Scrap the talc-chucking junk. Or re-engine it with something modern and clean....

You are the one missing the point.

I don't understand your point. Perhaps you could try again.

 

[FOCTOC]

He's suggesting that the choices are simple: either the 56s went for scrap or someone brave could invest and have them re-engineered. The latter is of course taking place, and im afraid for all the wibblers on here once done they'll neither sound like a 56 nor look like a 56 (new cabs are mooted). Personally I prefer a 56 in original format, but time marches on and if theres a better use for them in re-engineered form then its got to be a good thing for GBRf & and the railways in general.

 

[43096]

I don't understand your point. Perhaps you could try again.

I've explained it earlier in this thread. I really cannot be bothered to explain it again for the hard of understanding.

 

[Rail Blues]

I've explained it earlier in this thread. I really cannot be bothered to explain it again for the hard of understanding.

I wouldn't waste your time trying to get sense out of this particular poster Darlo. As this post amply demonstrates this poster can be rude and objectionable. On every thread I've seen 43096 on I've found them to be an Ill informed irritant with nothing worthwhile to say.

 

[43096]

I wouldn't waste your time trying to get sense out of this particular poster Darlo. As this post amply demonstrates this poster is rude and objectionable. On every thread I've seen 43096 on they basically comes across as an ill mannered and Ill informed irritant.

Ill mannered and ill informed? I'll defer to your expertise in this area....

 

[Rail Blues]

Ill mannered and ill informed? I'll defer to your expertise in this area....

Your posting history is available for all to see pal. I for one will be looking forward to the end of the school summer holidays.

 

[richieb1971]

There are some people that speak on these forums that others don't agree with, but the same people crawl from under the rocks with name calling and belittling. Same ones everytime. Not everyone can be perfect and not everyone can be right. A forum is for debate and difference of opinion. If all you can do here is state facts, it would be boring because a fact is a fact and you can't argue with it or debate it. All you can do is understand it and go on your merry way. I've gone and upset people by spending time venting my concerns with the railway industry and if you could be shot for that offense i'd be dead 10 times over by now. If you don't agree, just say you don't agree and say why. That is all that is necessary. Thank you.

 

[DarloRich]

There are some people that speak on these forums that others don't agree with, but the same people crawl from under the rocks with name calling and belittling. Same ones everytime. Not everyone can be perfect and not everyone can be right. A forum is for debate and difference of opinion. If all you can do here is state facts, it would be boring because a fact is a fact and you can't argue with it or debate it. All you can do is understand it and go on your merry way. I've gone and upset people by spending time venting my concerns with the railway industry and if you could be shot for that offense i'd be dead 10 times over by now. If you don't agree, just say you don't agree and say why. That is all that is necessary. Thank you.

Have you posted this in the wrong thread? it doesn't seem to have anything to do with GBRF?

 

[richieb1971]

If I wrote something about gbrf I'd be pummelled into the online detention centre by people like yourselves. I think gbrf are taking a necessary risk that could pay dividends. By leaping into the class 5 refurb package deal first they have secured the registration of a lot of locos. It's sad the railway forces companies into this process. Gbrf are a company based on principles of low risk they are not a company you would associate with risk taking. It's also caused a knock on shunting act with DB as they are eventually bringing out a few more locos. Maybe unrelated so don't shoot until the facts come out. Thx

 

[DarloRich]

If I wrote something about gbrf I'd be pummelled into the online detention centre by people like yourselves. I think gbrf are taking a necessary risk that could pay dividends. By leaping into the class 5 refurb package deal first they have secured the registration of a lot of locos. It's sad the railway forces companies into this process. Gbrf are a company based on principles of low risk they are not a company you would associate with risk taking. It's also caused a knock on shunting act with DB as they are eventually bringing out a few more locos. Maybe unrelated so don't shoot until the facts come out. Thx

Sorry but i have no idea what you are talking about. In particular this part: "It's sad the railway forces companies into this process"

 

[richieb1971]

Sorry but i have no idea what you are talking about. In particular this part: "It's sad the railway forces companies into this process"

Gbrf shied away from refurbs as long as new 66s were available. But since new work is for the taking and locos are in short supply due to emission regulation this seems the only viable solution left. Once all refurbable locos are out on the rails there is no current known solution left is there? It just seems to me gbrf turned off that voice of doubt on this financial risk. Which to be fair is a few notches up from buying new 66s.