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German Rail in decline ?

bahnause

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bülach (switzerland)
Belgium voted against this proposal too. The Belgian position is that senior people are the segment of motorists that cause the lowest amount of accidents already and it is therefore absolutely unnecessary to impose any additional burden on them. A position that I agree with wholeheartedly.
Not true for germany thogh. This article (german) explains why:

  • In terms of driving performance, senior citizens have a similar accident frequency ‘as the high-risk group of 18 to 25-year-olds.
  • Senior citizens in cars are more likely to cause accidents; as pedestrians, they are often the ones who suffer an accident
The lower overall figures are due to the lower mileage, not because they are safer on the road.

The lack of usable public transport away from centres, especcially on weekends, makes germany a "car country". A lot of senior citizens in rural areas rely on a car.
 
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Fragezeichnen

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I don't know if it's necessary, it just seems a bit nonsensical that someone has their eyesight tested at 18(which in Germany is to a higher standard than the UK and is done by an optician), which may disqualify them from driving, even if they could have passed the test, and then never again, unless they voluntarily do so.

By the way, in Germany prospective bus drivers have to pass psychological tests of reaction time etc., similar to train drivers. Now logically if that's necessary to ensure safe driving, it should be a requirement to be allowed to drive cars, too, but can you imagine how much chaos and fury it would cause if anyone tried to implement that? ;)
 

stuu

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Currently sat on an ICE 3 Neo in first class. By far the nicest train I have ever been on... With the slight issue that someone came up to me and had exactly the same seat reserved
 

Typewind

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The German rail company Deutsche Bahn saw heavy losses in the first part of 2024, with significantly fewer passengers catching long-distance trains. 30,000 jobs are set to be cut.
 

rvdborgt

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Currently sat on an ICE 3 Neo in first class. By far the nicest train I have ever been on... With the slight issue that someone came up to me and had exactly the same seat reserved
Date, carriage, train number were the same? If so, was the issuer also the same?
 

stuu

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Date, carriage, train number were the same? If so, was the issuer also the same?
She has a print out which said DB at the top, everything was identical to mine, also booked directly with DB
 

43096

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But was it the same connection. Often passengers assume their reservation automaticslly goes with them when a booking changes.
If it's an ersatzzug with different formation then DB often/usually issue a new train number, which makes reservations void as it is a different service. Will usually show as a cancellation for the original with the replacement showing at the sime time.
 

DanielB

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The devil is in the detail sometimes... I once made such a mistake myself going left after entering (into carriage 28) though my reservation was in carriage 29. And it happened to be that the seat number in that carriage was reserved on exactly the same route as I had reserved on. So only became aware of the mistake when someone stated they had reserved the seat I was sitting on.
 

stuu

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But was it the same connection. Often passengers assume their reservation automaticslly goes with them when a booking changes.
same train number, same carriage number, same seat and same date. The only thing I can imagine is that she had booked it and printed it off, and then cancelled or amended it and forgotten she had done that
 

poffle

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Dublin, Ireland
I think sometimes they cancel a train and all it's reservations. I've a feeling that they may subsequently reinstate the train.

Sometimes also when a connection can no longer be made they will cancel all the reservation and tell you you're now free to make new reservations on any connection that works for you. But the original reservation still seems to appear in your account.

I've got a train connection tomorrow that was cancelled about 6 weeks ago and I've made a new reservation. But it seems I can't reclaim the cost of the original reservation until after the journey date.
 

stuu

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Yes that's happened to me on one of the other journeys I have planned on this trip, but the journey yesterday hasn't changed, certainly not since April when I booked it
 

DanielB

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Sometimes also when a connection can no longer be made they will cancel all the reservation and tell you you're now free to make new reservations on any connection that works for you. But the original reservation still seems to appear in your account.
They certainly don't do that always: I had a reservation for the 9th of August and due to a timetable adjustment one connection is no longer available. But the first train is still shown complete with reservation, according to the DB booking engine my reserved seat is also still showing as occupied. So I only made a new reservation for the second train.

The emails from DB are rather confusing however: the emailed me an alternative option but with a header above it saying it's my original itinerary.
And in my account on the website the original and alternative itinerary are the same, with times different from what the journey planner displays.
 

LAX54

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It's classic British exceptionalism though - "our trains are terrible, its so much better in Europe" - despite many of those people never having taken a train in Europe! Now they've actually experienced in some people even stated ours are "much better" (!)

Certainly in the last 5 years (at least) DB has really struggled as we here know, but many casual people do not.
Grass in Greener syndrome, the press knock the GB rail system at every available oppurtunity ! it will soon be leaves again, but ignoring that it is a Worldwide issue.
 

stuu

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DB have rescheduled my Vienna-Brussels journey next week for the 5th time. They now suggest a crazy route going via Erfurt and Kassel, with a total of 10 changes and a four hour wait in Liege. Insane. Checking on their planner, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the original route from working.

This is appalling customer service, how they realistically can suggest to someone travelling with a child that they spend 26 hours getting from Vienna to Brussels when the original itinerary was two trains in ~ 10 hours is beyond me
 

rvdborgt

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DB have rescheduled my Vienna-Brussels journey next week for the 5th time. They now suggest a crazy route going via Erfurt and Kassel, with a total of 10 changes and a four hour wait in Liege. Insane. Checking on their planner, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the original route from working.
That may well be be true. A change to the timetable of one of the trains on your route can trigger such a mail. The change does not have to be on the part of the train's route where you're on that train, i.e. it can be a change that doesn't affect you. In addition, I have yet to see a sensible proposed itinerary in such a mail.
 

DanielB

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I have yet to see a sensible proposed itinerary in such a mail.
They are weird indeed... I was proposed to do Würzburg - Hannover all on regional trains after a connection would no longer be possible. Obviously just made a new reservation for the ICE one hour later than the original plan, quite a lot quicker.
 

duesselmartin

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Duisburg, Germany
DB have rescheduled my Vienna-Brussels journey next week for the 5th time. They now suggest a crazy route going via Erfurt and Kassel, with a total of 10 changes and a four hour wait in Liege. Insane. Checking on their planner, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the original route from working.

This is appalling customer service, how they realistically can suggest to someone travelling with a child that they spend 26 hours getting from Vienna to Brussels when the original itinerary was two trains in ~ 10 hours is beyond me
It does sound like a system glitch. I suggest you should check bahn.de for the best connection yourself.
 

The exile

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It does sound like a system glitch. I suggest you should check bahn.de for the best connection yourself.
Would suggest rather that it’s symptomatic of (possibly primitive) AI systems that don’t realise that they interface with real human beings. Ie - it’s not a glitch, it’s an inherent defect.
 

yorksrob

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Grass in Greener syndrome, the press knock the GB rail system at every available oppurtunity ! it will soon be leaves again, but ignoring that it is a Worldwide issue.

Our fares system isn't a world wide issue though.
 

yorksrob

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Our particular issues might not be, but other systems aren’t perfect either - not necessarily in ways that the visitor would notice.

Other systems have much more passenger friendly fares systems than ours though. Germany was streets ahead with its Bahn Card, before the 49 Euro ticket was even introduced.

We shouldn't use technical difficulties abroad as an excuse to whitewash our own consistently bad policy choices.
 

The exile

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Other systems have much more passenger friendly fares systems than ours though. Germany was streets ahead with its Bahn Card, before the 49 Euro ticket was even introduced.

We shouldn't use technical difficulties abroad as an excuse to whitewash our own consistently bad policy choices.
Quote an example from the country you’re quoting as being streets ahead (and I would agree that in many places they are). Admittedly this was several years ago: Medium size town (Lueneburg) has a 2tph fast service to Hamburg and is in the HVV tariff area - so an HVV ticket to Hamburg is also valid on local transport once you get there (excellent so far). Problem is, one of those 2tph is IC - HVV tickets not valid (no exceeding possible either). The more expensive IC ticket is valid on the RE to Hamburg, but doesn’t include local travel once you get there - thus effectively reducing the service to 1toh once you’ve bought your ticket. If the RE was cancelled, tickets weren’t valid on the next IC - justification being the hourly stopper which also ran but effectively took as long to get you there as waiting for the next RE.
 

rvdborgt

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Quote an example from the country you’re quoting as being streets ahead (and I would agree that in many places they are). Admittedly this was several years ago: Medium size town (Lueneburg) has a 2tph fast service to Hamburg and is in the HVV tariff area - so an HVV ticket to Hamburg is also valid on local transport once you get there (excellent so far). Problem is, one of those 2tph is IC - HVV tickets not valid (no exceeding possible either). The more expensive IC ticket is valid on the RE to Hamburg, but doesn’t include local travel once you get there - thus effectively reducing the service to 1toh once you’ve bought your ticket. If the RE was cancelled, tickets weren’t valid on the next IC - justification being the hourly stopper which also ran but effectively took as long to get you there as waiting for the next RE.
You can use the IC in such a case (expected delay at destination >20 min.) but you have to buy an IC ticket and then request a refund of that ticket.
 

RT4038

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You can use the IC in such a case (expected delay at destination >20 min.) but you have to buy an IC ticket and then request a refund of that ticket.
A nice, easy, passenger friendly solution then.....
 

The exile

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Only temporarily. But I agree it's not passenger-friendly at all.
So you would have to shell extra money for the IC ticket, which you would then claim back? Seems odd - how would those doing the refunding know that you also held a HVV ticket and that the reason for purchasing the IC was the cancellation, rather than that you’d left the other ticket at home or similar?
 

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