German Rail in decline ?

[dutchflyer]

German rail firm Deutsche Bahn plunges deeper into red – DW – 07/25/2024

The German rail company Deutsche Bahn saw heavy losses in the first part of 2024, with significantly fewer passengers catching long-distance trains. Some 30,000 jobs are set to be cut.

www.dw.com

The German rail company Deutsche Bahn saw heavy losses in the first part of 2024, with significantly fewer passengers catching long-distance trains. 30,000 jobs are set to be cut.

Though further news here stated this could all (easily!) be done with ´natural flow´ (those quitting anyway, go into pension etc.) and would mostly be administrative jobs. Expect many more still open+staffed ticket outlets (´Reisecenter´) te be closed.
Aside: just today (or yesterday) Lufthansa, the major long standing german Airline also stated it had to make significant cuts in staff etc to get back into profit.

 

[rvdborgt]

So you would have to shell extra money for the IC ticket, which you would then claim back?

Correct.

Seems odd - how would those doing the refunding know that you also held a HVV ticket and that the reason for purchasing the IC was the cancellation, rather than that you’d left the other ticket at home or similar?

You provide your HVV ticket. Data about delays and cancellations are available for those doing the refunds. The railways need to keep the data for at least one year IIRC for customer complaints.

 

[yorksrob]

Quote an example from the country you’re quoting as being streets ahead (and I would agree that in many places they are). Admittedly this was several years ago: Medium size town (Lueneburg) has a 2tph fast service to Hamburg and is in the HVV tariff area - so an HVV ticket to Hamburg is also valid on local transport once you get there (excellent so far). Problem is, one of those 2tph is IC - HVV tickets not valid (no exceeding possible either). The more expensive IC ticket is valid on the RE to Hamburg, but doesn’t include local travel once you get there - thus effectively reducing the service to 1toh once you’ve bought your ticket. If the RE was cancelled, tickets weren’t valid on the next IC - justification being the hourly stopper which also ran but effectively took as long to get you there as waiting for the next RE.

But presumably you could get a Bahn card discount on that ticket to begin with ?

 

[Richard Scott]

In Germany now, Deutsche Bahn as useless as ever. An ICE from Hamburg Altona was 20 late by Harburg station and losing more time as we go on.
On a train on Saturday, sat in what I thought was an unreserved seat as nothing showing (there were on some other seats) then someone gets on with a reservation for that seat. Definitely not last minute as she showed me her booking!
Almost every long distance train is late wherever I go.

 

[The exile]

But presumably you could get a Bahn card discount on that ticket to begin with ?

You could get a BC discount on the DB (IC) ticket, but not the HVV one. BC100 valid on both, of course.

 

[duesselmartin]

So you would have to shell extra money for the IC ticket, which you would then claim back? Seems odd - how would those doing the refunding know that you also held a HVV ticket and that the reason for purchasing the IC was the cancellation, rather than that you’d left the other ticket at home or similar?

in the end, the problem is that it is not an integrated concern anymore. DB Fernverkehr are on a different ledger than regional services. The former has to make a profit, the latter does not.
I guess you have/had a similar situation in the UK after privateisation in the UK where two different TOCs don't recognise each others tickets.

 

[The exile]

in the end, the problem is that it is not an integrated concern anymore. DB Fernverkehr are on a different ledger than regional services. The former has to make a profit, the latter does not.
I guess you have/had a similar situation in the UK after privateisation in the UK where two different TOCs don't recognise each others tickets.

Normally only for train specific tickets and special promotions (Gatwick Express restrictions being a notable exception). A flexible ticket from A to B is valid on all services from A to B - the IC vs Regional differential does not apply. Open access operators are different, but they are usually “extras” on top of the basic timetable.

 

[yorksrob]

You could get a BC discount on the DB (IC) ticket, but not the HVV one. BC100 valid on both, of course.

I'm guessing BC100 is the more expensive version with more benefits ? If I were introducing something similar here, I'd probably just have that with discounts on the card for disadvantaged groups.

in the end, the problem is that it is not an integrated concern anymore. DB Fernverkehr are on a different ledger than regional services. The former has to make a profit, the latter does not.
I guess you have/had a similar situation in the UK after privateisation in the UK where two different TOCs don't recognise each others tickets.

Normally only for train specific tickets and special promotions (Gatwick Express restrictions being a notable exception). A flexible ticket from A to B is valid on all services from A to B - the IC vs Regional differential does not apply. Open access operators are different, but they are usually “extras” on top of the basic timetable.

I seem to recall that the public outcry over the various loony-tunes proposals for privatisation in the UK was so great, that the Government was forced to retain a core system of integrated ticketing

 

[The exile]

I'm guessing BC100 is the more expensive version with more benefits ? If I were introducing something similar here, I'd probably just have that with discounts on the card for disadvantaged groups

BC100 is effectively a 1 year all-liner including most local transport in urban areas. Not absolutely everything though - I got caught out once or twice.

 

[yorksrob]

BC100 is effectively a 1 year all-liner including most local transport in urban areas. Not absolutely everything though - I got caught out once or twice.

Yeah, we could do with that.

 

[johncrossley]

With the BahnCard 100, you now get a free Deutschland Ticket included, so it is now valid on virtually all local transport in the country.

 

[AdamWW]

Normally only for train specific tickets and special promotions (Gatwick Express restrictions being a notable exception). A flexible ticket from A to B is valid on all services from A to B - the IC vs Regional differential does not apply. Open access operators are different, but they are usually “extras” on top of the basic timetable.

I'm pretty sure that open access operators also accept non operator specific tickets. (Heathrow Express aside).

I'm not aware of any other European country that does this.

(As an aside, I was amused to see a display screen in Berlin Hauptbahnhof recently warning passengers that they shouldn't board the approaching Flixtrain without a Flixtrain ticket...then, since it was terminating, that passengers shouldn't board it at all).

 

[rg177]

Made the mistake of travelling from Horb to Freiburg (Briesgau) this morning while a Stuttgart vs Freiburg football match is on.

Horb to Rottweil was an IC (that functions as an RE to Singen/Schaffhausen) and it was so busy that I ended up sat in the luggage rack in First Class (with a First Class ticket).

Rottweil to Villingen was a single-car RS1 unit that was crushloaded on departure and left people behind all the way along the line, as well as leaving some on for longer than they'd hoped!

Then Villingen to Titisee (where I forced my way off) was a three-car 1440 unit. I managed to get a First Class seat (second was busy but not totally full) but all bets were off by the next stop where it became crushloaded in both classes. It was announced that FC was declassified (sensible!) but we were still leaving folk behind. Also not helped that alongside the football fans, everyone else was insistent upon ramming their bikes on board for a day out in the countryside. The conductor pleaded with people over the PA to stop but that was all on deaf ears.

It's a beautiful day so I can't say I'm surprised, but something I wish I'd avoided!

Punctuality so far is at least fairly tolerable (which is more than can be said for SNCF Grand Est) Only noticeable issue so far on my trip was SWEG binning roughly every other service between Kehl and Strasbourg.