getting off the train early

[Monty]

My own personal opinion is that some megatrain tickets and advance fares are heavily discounted tickets to the point the passenger is travelling for mere peanuts, now these tickets do not allow a break of journey and if the passenger decides to alight from the train early then I feel they should pay the standard fare for the journey they have made.

This subject was briefly touched on last Friday's fares workshop and while I can appreciate mitigating circumstances may cause a passenger to change their travel arrangements at very short notice (ie illness, emergency etc). However if a passenger holds a megatrain ticket from say London Waterloo to Southampton Central and simply decides to finish their journey at Eastleigh because it's simply more convenient for them or at worst planned to do it from the starting knowlying it wasn't allowed, the full standard fare should be charged.

I suspect not many will agree with me, but it is just my opinion.

 

[Urban Gateline]

My own personal opinion is that some megatrain tickets and advance fares are heavily discounted tickets to the point the passenger is travelling for mere peanuts, now these tickets do not allow a break of journey and if the passenger decides to alight from the train early then I feel they should pay the standard fare for the journey they have made.

This subject was briefly touched on last Friday's fares workshop and while I can appreciate mitigating circumstances may cause a passenger to change their travel arrangements at very short notice (ie illness, emergency etc). However if a passenger holds a megatrain ticket from say London Waterloo to Southampton Central and simply decides to finish their journey at Eastleigh because it's simply more convenient for them or at worst planned to do it from the starting knowlying it wasn't allowed, the full standard fare should be charged.

I suspect not many will agree with me, but it is just my opinion.

Well I may be in the minority that agrees with you then!

I get many people trying to stop short at Clapham Junction on Advance tickets to Victoria/Waterloo, most of them either try to ridicule what you say with comments like "but I am travelling less" or "it is only one stop". I don't care, if they've broken the terms of their cheap advance ticket I will refer them to the RPI or send them back to the platforms to take another train to their original destination (regardless of the fact they shouldn't have got off it in the first place!)

The saying is "You get what you pay for", and it applies to these cheap tickets, if the passenger wants more flexibility then they should fork out more for a flexible ticket, can't "have your cake and eat it" unfortunately!

 

[route:oxford]

I get many people trying to stop short at Clapham Junction on Advance tickets to Victoria/Waterloo, most of them either try to ridicule what you say with comments like "but I am travelling less" or "it is only one stop". I don't care, if they've broken the terms of their cheap advance ticket I will refer them to the RPI or send them back to the platforms to take another train to their original destination (regardless of the fact they shouldn't have got off it in the first place!)

Isn't this more a Railway/London thing Vs Country?

For me as "country" person, Clapham Junction is London, as is High Street Kensington.

 

[Slough]

Well I may be in the minority that agrees with you then!

I get many people trying to stop short at Clapham Junction on Advance tickets to Victoria/Waterloo, most of them either try to ridicule what you say with comments like "but I am travelling less" or "it is only one stop". I don't care, if they've broken the terms of their cheap advance ticket I will refer them to the RPI or send them back to the platforms to take another train to their original destination (regardless of the fact they shouldn't have got off it in the first place!)

The saying is "You get what you pay for", and it applies to these cheap tickets, if the passenger wants more flexibility then they should fork out more for a flexible ticket, can't "have your cake and eat it" unfortunately!

But your more than happy at swt to cram as many people into your trains as possible , surely common sense says if a passenger wants to get off earlier they should be allowed to and allow the chance of another passenger to sit down .

several times I have had the misfortune of travelling of overcrowded trains from Feltham to Clapham junction on a Saturday lunch time and on the return at 6pm.
Swt in my opinion is the worst train franchise running , the trains never have the air con on , the staff are rude and cannot provide you with any other ticket unless it's made by swt . Staff often direct you to the front 4 coaches of the 8 car train at feltham only to find the guard closes the doors as you are about to board.

That is my opinion on swt , and I travel frequently on fgw and southern as well who both offer great service.

 

[blue sabre]

My own personal opinion is that some megatrain tickets and advance fares are heavily discounted tickets to the point the passenger is travelling for mere peanuts, now these tickets do not allow a break of journey and if the passenger decides to alight from the train early then I feel they should pay the standard fare for the journey they have made.

This subject was briefly touched on last Friday's fares workshop and while I can appreciate mitigating circumstances may cause a passenger to change their travel arrangements at very short notice (ie illness, emergency etc). However if a passenger holds a megatrain ticket from say London Waterloo to Southampton Central and simply decides to finish their journey at Eastleigh because it's simply more convenient for them or at worst planned to do it from the starting knowlying it wasn't allowed, the full standard fare should be charged.

I suspect not many will agree with me, but it is just my opinion.

I agree with that and also hope they don't make changes to the terms as any increase in flexibility will ultimately lead to a price increase - the other thing most people have a gripe with. It isn't broken so there is no need to change it.

 

[hantsman1205]

Well I may be in the minority that agrees with you then!

I get many people trying to stop short at Clapham Junction on Advance tickets to Victoria/Waterloo, most of them either try to ridicule what you say with comments like "but I am travelling less" or "it is only one stop". I don't care, if they've broken the terms of their cheap advance ticket I will refer them to the RPI or send them back to the platforms to take another train to their original destination (regardless of the fact they shouldn't have got off it in the first place!)

The saying is "You get what you pay for", and it applies to these cheap tickets, if the passenger wants more flexibility then they should fork out more for a flexible ticket, can't "have your cake and eat it" unfortunately!

Re my bold, the train you put them back on won't be valid so thats a non starter IMHO

 

[Pen Mill]

But it doesn't make sense that you can be penalised for using less of the service than what you've paid for.

This would never stand up in a court of law.

Absolutely , I'll lend you the £100,000 barristers' fees to try it out !

I'm assuming that legal boffins have been all over the terms & conditions so whilst I sympathise with your view, they've probably got a legal quote which covers them.

 

[Monty]

But your more than happy at swt to cram as many people into your trains as possible , surely common sense says if a passenger wants to get off earlier they should be allowed to and allow the chance of another passenger to sit down .

several times I have had the misfortune of travelling of overcrowded trains from Feltham to Clapham junction on a Saturday lunch time and on the return at 6pm.

With respect SWT dosn't force anyone to board overcrowded trains, you do that yourself. I have had my trains bursting at the seams and I've tried tell passengers you will not be able to board but they still insist on trying to get on, often with total disregard to passengers trying to get off.

I find it a bit odd you mention trains being full and standing on a weekend afternoon on the Reading line, as my trains have often been virtually empty. However if you've chosen to travel on a rugby day there is perhaps your answer.

Swt in my opinion is the worst train franchise running , the trains never have the air con on.

Simply not true, infact I often get complaints from passengers that the air conditioning is too cold. You may have been travelling on a Class 455 which are not fitted with air conditioning.

the staff are rude

I cannot speak for rude staff, but it shouldn't be tolerated, however our definition of rude and being direct may differ somewhat.

and cannot provide you with any other ticket unless it's made by swt.

Hang on? SWT can sell you a ticket to any railway station the country. Special fares or tickets that apply only to SWT may only be available through them and that isn't totally unreasonable, that also applies to other TOCs and their special fares.

Staff often direct you to the front 4 coaches of the 8 car train at feltham only to find the guard closes the doors as you are about to board.

Feltham only has platform dispatchers at peak times and have to give the tip to the guard before he can close his doors. So I find it a little hard to believe that one would instruct passengers to board in the front half of the train, only to give the guard the ok to close his doors.

That is my opinion on swt , and I travel frequently on fgw and southern as well who both offer great service.

No offence but I think you may be looking at this through rose tinted spectacles as both FGW and Southern suffer from the all the problems you have mentioned here, infact some of FGW's trains are notorious for being overcrowded. All three TOCs operate a good level of service, could it be better? Sure but nobody is perfect.

 

[455driver]

Well done for answering that Monty, I just couldnt be bothered as it is factually inaccurate as both you and I know!

Love the "the staff are rude" bit, yawn!:roll:

 

[Urban Gateline]

Re my bold, the train you put them back on won't be valid so thats a non starter IMHO

True, however it serves to prove a point and cause an inconvenience to said passenger, as they will realise that next time they should buy the ticket to Clapham Junction if it is an Advance, or buy a more flexible one where finishing short is acceptable! Had I just let the passenger go, they would have continued to do the same thing as there would be little deterrent then.

The main point is that the TOC is being deprived of revenue, many people stop short on Advance tickets to connect to somewhere else. Let's say someone from Exeter using an Advance ticket to "London terminals". They then want to travel on to Feltham, but discover that changing at Clapham Junction will save both time and money, or so they think! The Oyster fare is cheaper from Clapham than if the person had continued on to Waterloo to start the Oyster journey there. Therefore the TOC is losing revenue from some stop-shorts.

Slough's rant is enlightening, if not seemingly biased! I was not aware that SWT are so terrible, as Monty said most of our stock has air-con and it is mostly working, just hard to please everyone as some find it too cold and some too hot!
Whether the staff are rude of course depends on what you define as rude, how you treat them to begin with and your levels of expectation, of course not everyone is perfect!
The thing about limited ticket availability is rubbish, all ticket selling staff comply with the usual unbiased ticket selling rules, unless you expected to buy a "southern only" ticket (outside Z1-6) on an SWT train or something else that wouldn't be valid!

 

[34D]

True

No its not true!! urban gateline is an officer of the railway, and can authorize a passenger to do something like this.

 

[Urban Gateline]

No its not true!! urban gateline is an officer of the railway, and can authorize a passenger to do something like this.

Exageration of the year there!

No RPI or Gateline staff can grant free onward travel on another TOC! Since I work for SWT, most people in the aforementioned scenario were going to London Victoria, hence only Southern staff can authorise free onward travel on their services (mostly only managers too!)

 

[34D]

Exageration of the year there!

No RPI or Gateline staff can grant free onward travel on another TOC! Since I work for SWT, most people in the aforementioned scenario were going to London Victoria, hence only Southern staff can authorise free onward travel on their services (mostly only managers too!)

The byelaws suggest you can - though of course this may get you in trouble for breaching company process.

So if someone was massively delayed (like many other threads on here) and came to you/SWT for assistance, you couldn't simply stamp their tickets to travel on southern, for example?

Returning to the topic, is it a reasonable argument that (in peak time) people are doing everyone else a favour by getting off early? If so, surely SWT shouldn't penalise passengers who do this?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The byelaws suggest you can . . . .

No, they do not.
Where are you getting that idea from?
The Byelaws confirm only that a passenger may travel if they have authority to do so given by "a person acting in the course of his duties who is an employee or agent of an Operator" etc.
It does not follow that every person "who is an employee or agent of an Operator" may, or does, give such authority.

 

[34D]

No, they do not.
Where are you getting that idea from?
The Byelaws confirm only that a passenger may travel if they have authority to do so given by "a person acting in the course of his duties who is an employee or agent of an Operator" etc.
It does not follow that every person "who is an employee or agent of an Operator" may, or does, give such authority.

Well okay. But if any person meeting that definition gives authority then (whether entitled or not) this is binding.

 

[Crossover]

Am I correct in thinking that in some cases, the AP's aren't available short due to quotas? (thus being the reason why they are intended to be used between the points printed on the ticket)

 

[island]

Am I correct in thinking that in some cases, the AP's aren't available short due to quotas? (thus being the reason why they are intended to be used between the points printed on the ticket)

Yes, that's correct.