Glasgow Inverness train

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bobrobert

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I use this service a few times a year. When it leaves Glasgow at 10.12 reserved seats are sometimes not ticketed - a frequent occurrence - because the train arrives in at Glasgow late. I have sat in a seat and then at Perth someone boards and claims I am in their seat which they have reserved but wasn't ticketed at Glasgow. Am I obliged to vacate it? One time the ticket inspector found the person another seat but I didn't find out the "legal" position.
 
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yorkie

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No, if there are no reservations then there are no reservations and that should be the end of the matter.

That is the case with almost all TOCs as far as I am aware, but you may want to ask Scotrail for clarification as there is one TOC I am aware of (XC) who sometimes enforce invisible reservations, and their customer services admitted to a passenger that they could be required to move seats at potentially every station, and also dismissed the issue, claiming all their Voyager trains have an unreserved Coach B (which is not true). XC are renowned for poor customer service though, and I doubt Scotrail is that bad, but do let us know what they say.
 

rail-britain

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This issue is often compounded by two units in the formation, typically Class 158 and 170, both having Coach A and Coach B (although the Class 158 should be labelled as Coach D and Coach E, northbound, both being unreserved)
Hence the Hybrid Class 158/170 Seat Plan in use

It is well known that people board the incorrect unit and are unable to swap between the correct unit as the train is already underway, and don't really want to wait until the next station to move to the correct unit they should be in

The seat labels should still be applied, even with late boarding, but it may not always be possible as reservations are not really given a high priority as against making sure a train can depart as near to its departure time as possible (SQUIRE score weighting)
ScotRail continues to score poorly on seat reservations
 

bobrobert

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Asking them is an option but if they are being negligent in ticketing the seats then they might not want to "clarify" the position so I thought that posting here would get an impartial answer. I have heard the train driver announcing something about the arrangement of the seating being to blame but not a proper explanation. One time a family of four boarding at Perth couldn't get their ticketed seats and the guy was losing it big time. Generally the train after Perth is standing room only. I am planning to use this service again soon so a "legal" answer would be helpful. I am generally one of the first on the train to try and get an un ticketed seat. I feel for a passenger not getting what they paid for but I am not willing to vacate a seat which I occupied in good faith.
 

rail-britain

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As above, you have sat in a seat where a Seat Reservation label has not been applied
This is no longer your issue, but that of the other passenger
The other passenger is then entitled to sit in any other seat, and if no seat is available within 10 minutes to a minimum 5% compensation of the relevant fare for that journey

As mentioned already, ScotRail don't really seem too bothered about Seat reservations (except on the sleeper services)
The flaws in some of their (now rather out of date) seat plans has been pointed out but they do not seem interested

Ironically, they don't seem to have such issues on the Edinburgh / Glasgow - Aberdeen services
Furthermore, the staff at Aberdeen will try to apply all the seat reservations, even when boarding has commenced (due to a late arrival)

I feel for a passenger not getting what they paid for but I am not willing to vacate a seat which I occupied in good faith.
(assuming) All the passengers will have paid for their travel ticket
However the Seat Reservation is free
 

34D

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I feel for a passenger not getting what they paid for but I am not willing to vacate a seat which I occupied in good faith.

Absolutely. I think simply telling them that the particular seat is unreserved, and advising them that there may be another coach A and to go find the guard is your best bet.
 

yorkie

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Easier said than done when that passenger turns out to be a 50ish year old, rude and militant woman with a big attitude, and the XC guard is announcing that reservations are still being enforced even though they are not visible. I'd love to see someone stand their ground in that circumstance and see what happens (could be a bit of a 'test case' - and no, I don't mean that in a legal sense)
 

rail-britain

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the XC guard is announcing that reservations are still being enforced even though they are not visible
ScotRail are at the other end of the spectrum, and simply advise customers to use any seat they find and if they cannot find one to get their attention within 15 minutes
If they are still standing then they are advised to submit a compensation claim, and if a seat becomes a little later in the journey they may take it

The difference with XC is that reservations can continue to be made whilst a train is en-route, and hence the difference in policy
As far as I am aware all other TOC close out their reservations 2 hours prior to departure from originating station
 

bobrobert

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Easier said than done when that passenger turns out to be a 50ish year old, rude and militant woman with a big attitude, and the XC guard is announcing that reservations are still being enforced even though they are not visible. I'd love to see someone stand their ground in that circumstance and see what happens (could be a bit of a 'test case' - and no, I don't mean that in a legal sense)

This is the scenario that is possible and wish to avoid.:):cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As above, you have sat in a seat where a Seat Reservation label has not been applied
This is no longer your issue, but that of the other passenger
The other passenger is then entitled to sit in any other seat, and i
(assuming) All the passengers will have paid for their travel ticket
However the Seat Reservation is free

I was under the assumption that they paid for reservations and were out of pocket. This puts a different light on things. At the risk of going off topic. Whilst travelling on the Glasgow Oban/Fort William train I see a lot of unoccupied ticketed seats. Is it the case the ticket holders get on at Glasgow and ignore their reservations and pick a seat with a scenic view leaving others getting on later to hunt for un ticketed seats?
 

exile

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My sympathies are generally with the person with the reserved seat in this case. They may very well have a good reason for reserving - unable to stand for long periods, or wanting to sit together as a family group. The reservation ticket is part of a contract with the TOC and it's not the passenger's fault if it's not honoured through failure to place a ticket on the seat.
 

yorkie

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The person with the reserved seat can have my sympathy, but if there's no labels out then it's just like a normal train where you find a spare seat and you sit in it. If there are no spare seats at all, and you have a reservation, I understand that many guards will let you into 1st Class in those circumstances, until seats become available.

But the concept that someone without a reservation will have to move at potentially every station is unacceptable in my view and XC have got that badly wrong.
 

Greenback

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This is the scenario that is possible and wish to avoid.:):cry:

Having been in exactly this situation (although the woamn was in her 60's rather than 50's), I cna udnerstand and sympathise your wish!

My sympathies are generally with the person with the reserved seat in this case. They may very well have a good reason for reserving - unable to stand for long periods, or wanting to sit together as a family group. The reservation ticket is part of a contract with the TOC and it's not the passenger's fault if it's not honoured through failure to place a ticket on the seat.

I am sympathetic to people who have reserved seats that have not been honoured. It has happened to me on several occasions. But it is not the fault of the hapless individual who sits in a seat that they have no way of knowing has been reserved.

The person's gripe is with the TOC.

The person with the reserved seat can have my sympathy, but if there's no labels out then it's just like a normal train where you find a spare seat and you sit in it. If there are no spare seats at all, and you have a reservation, I understand that many guards will let you into 1st Class in those circumstances, until seats become available.

But the concept that someone without a reservation will have to move at potentially every station is unacceptable in my view and XC have got that badly wrong.

I agree 100%. And I have made this quite clear to XC staff in person too, though the resposne has echoed company policy, while admitting it is ridiculous.
 

reb0118

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On trains that are reservation recommended if there are no labels printed then the train is classified as a non reservable service. If you have reserved a specific seat in these circumstances and have managed to find another seat or another seat has been found for you then you are not entitled to further compensation.

If you have not been able to find a seat then you are able to claim compensation. You are not allowed to sit in first with a standard ticket in these circumstances - but the guard (as I would) may allow it.

You do not have the right to move people from any seat that you may have reserved - you can ask them, however, but they do not have to move. If you do not ask you will not get.

On trains that are reservation compulsory then labels do not have to be used and you must vacate any seat occupied if the rightful owner presents himself - you have no right to travel if you do not have a reservation but you maybe allowed on sufferance.

Some trains e.g. ex Hull Trains turbos do not have matching seat numbers so these throw a spanner in the works, re seat reservations. as does substituting a pair of 158s over a 170 - rather that, however, than a cancellation
 

maniacmartin

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In this situation I would move to another seat to allow a group who have booked adjacent seats to sit together.

I would give up my seat and stand for someone else if there were no other seats left for them, they aren't rude about it and are able to show me their seat reservation. Perhaps I'm too nice :)

I would not, however, give up my seat if there are other adequate seats that the reservation holder could use
 

Hadders

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The situation with seat reservations and XC Voyagers is farcical at times!

I recently travelled from Penzance to Bristol Parkway. The train manager was unable to download the seat reservations onto the electronic displays so made an apologetic announcement asking passengers to sit in their reserved seats and to prepared to move if someone claimed they had the seat reserved.

The train manager finally got the seat reservations downloaded shortly after departing Truro - cue frustrated passengers and musical chairs on a train that was pretty wedged
 

142094

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Same has happened quite a lot the last few times I've been forced to travel via XC - last time someone had to hand write all the reservations on blank bits of paper.
 

bb21

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The train manager finally got the seat reservations downloaded shortly after departing Truro - cue frustrated passengers and musical chairs on a train that was pretty wedged

In such circumstances I do not feel the need to inconvenience myself.

Same has happened quite a lot the last few times I've been forced to travel via XC - last time someone had to hand write all the reservations on blank bits of paper.

Sometimes they can also be printed from an Avantix on RSP9299 stock.
 

142094

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Sometimes they can also be printed from an Avantix on RSP9299 stock.

Must have had a set of blank reservation slips (not even XC branding on it either). Bit of a faff to have to write out what would have been 100+ of them.
 
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