Glasgow Queen Street refurbishment and remodelling

[QueensCurve]

Got to wonder, if that had been considered in the olden days at the time of Beeching, whether Glasgow Queen Street upper could have been closed and sold off as a hotel or car park with all services looping around a four-platform lower.

(Is a reversal required for Aberdeen services to reach Central?)

No.

 

[QueensCurve]

Immediately post WW2 plans were made for a combined station between Buchanan St and Queen St stations whilst the land was all railway owned. Seven platforms at Queen St will never be enough for growth over the next ten years. Another twin track bore is required on the east side of the current one and more platforms on the car park.

Was this considered earlier in the life of the station. For the uninitiated there is a dummy portal to the east of the actual one at the Queen Street end.

 

[PHILIPE]

BBC Rail News on Red Button says passengers being held in marquees and directed to trains, unless I've missed such a post on here.

 

[mbreckers]

BBC Rail News on Red Button says passengers being held in marquees and directed to trains, unless I've missed such a post on here.

were you replying to somebody there and didnt quote them? That was always the plan for the tunnel closure

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No.

That map must be from the 1980s. It shows how far we have come since then.
The Airdrie-Bathgate line is missing, and Bathgate to Newbridge Jn is shown as freight only.
The same applies to the Paisley Canal line, and importantly, the Rutherglen-Coatbridge line which is now being used for long-distance diversions from Queen St into Central.
And all those lines are now electrified and are carrying frequent passenger services.
What a transformation.

 

[PHILIPE]

were you replying to somebody there and didnt quote them? That was always the plan for the tunnel closure

No. just my own observation which I must have missed over the months and a long thread.

 

[edwin_m]

Was this considered earlier in the life of the station. For the uninitiated there is a dummy portal to the east of the actual one at the Queen Street end.

Buchanan Street was Caledonian Railway then LMS and Queen Street was North British then LNER, so it's unlikely the railways would have considered such a thing before nationalisation. What little is stated on Wikipedia implies the initiative came from the local authorities planning the future of the city after WW2.

Something odd here - when I quote this I'm getting an image link that isn't visible in the original post! Edit: and isn't visible in the quote either. It's a picture of the dummy portal, which I think was only ever to accommodate an engine siding but I'm not certain of that.

 

[najaB]

Something odd here - when I quote this I'm getting an image link that isn't visible in the original post! Edit: and isn't visible in the quote either. It's a picture of the dummy portal, which I think was only ever to accommodate an engine siding but I'm not certain of that.

It's because the image URL is for the Google search result, rather than the actual image.

Image linked below:

 

[QueensCurve]

...and bad news - the pub is now shut

...but here's the new beer tent!

The best iteration of the Queen St pub was the Berlins Bar - images of which appear to have been airbrushed out of history.

 

[onionjoe76]

Are Class 170's not cleared for running in the low level station .. I was one RTT and noticed everything is timed for a class 158 Express Sprinter (also the case with the diverted GLC to ABD/INV/DUN... Or is just listed this way because they can combine 170 and 158's to run services?

 

[najaB]

I was one RTT and noticed everything is timed for a class 158 Express Sprinter

That is just the timing load - 170s are 158 for timetable rules.

 

[onionjoe76]

That is just the timing load - 170s are 158 for timetable rules.

Thank you

 

[me123]

Will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings. If it's like last time the E-G services were revised, we may simply see a mass movement off the rails towards road transport (a combination of the 900 bus and the private automobile). People seem to see the Airdrie-Bathgate route as a "slow" option, even though the journey will be just 20 minutes longer, and very competitive compared to the rush hour M8, with the roadworks through Monklands just slowing things down even further.

Of course, a five month closure is different from a six week closure over the height of the Summer period.

 

[lee56]

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/queenStreettunnel

as we all know the tunnel is closed till August however some question need to be addressed:

• Why the surrounding retail space has to be closed, thought only high level services are affected
• Scotrail says closing the tunnel during this period as not much people travel in the summer- which is a lit as demand is peak duirng summer as summer festivals happen plus people still need to work at summer
• what happens to all the rolling stock that normally service the high level service will they be cascaded to the low level
• what will happen to the staff that normally work at retail shops on the high level are they get paid off or no need to work till august
• they could have closed the tunnel only at night then re open in the day if such a thing could happen

 

[najaB]

See this thread for answers to your questions.

 

[lee56]

as we all know the tunnel is closed till August however some question need to be addressed:
•Why the surrounding retail space has to be closed, thought only high level services are affected
•Scotrail says closing the tunnel during this period as not much people travel in the summer- which is a lit as demand is peak duirng summer as summer festivals happen plus people still need to work at summer
•what happens to all the rolling stock that normally service the high level service will they be cascaded to the low level
•what will happen to the staff that normally work at retail shops on the high level are they get paid off or no need to work till august
•they could have closed the tunnel only at night then re open in the day if such a thing could happen

 

[najaB]

as we all know the tunnel is closed till August however some question need to be addressed...

I meant read the thread, not just post the same question. Most, if not all, of your questions have already been answered!

 

[lee56]

I meant read the thread, not just post the same question. Most, if not all, of your questions have already been answered!

so having read the thread what happens to the staff of the retail space plus will they ever reopen

 

[najaB]

so having read the thread what happens to the staff of the retail space plus will they ever reopen

The staff will likely be accommodated at other branches of the vendors, and yes there will be retail space after the works are completed. Bear in mind though that Queen Street is being completely rebuilt in the near future (from late 2017 I think).

 

[me123]

There's no doubt that the staff in the retail concessions would be accommodated elsewhere. I think all the retailers in Queen Street have multiple branches across the city (WHSmith, Costa, Burger King, Boots etc). Most importantly for the retailers, they'll want to have a skilled workforce for when their new shops open in five months, so losing the staff and retraining them would be folly and necessitate retraining of a new inexperienced workforce (and probably dubious at best from a legal perspective).

 

[lee56]

There's no doubt that the staff in the retail concessions would be accommodated elsewhere. I think all the retailers in Queen Street have multiple branches across the city (WHSmith, Costa, Burger King, Boots etc). Most importantly for the retailers, they'll want to have a skilled workforce for when their new shops open in five months, so losing the staff and retraining them would be folly and necessitate retraining of a new inexperienced workforce (and probably dubious at best from a legal perspective).

wouldn't those branches in the city be overstaffed from queen street if they are been allocated elsewere plus thought they would be paid off no need to work for 5 months + when ever the station re open plus why is boots the only retail space still open while the rest is closed off

 

[najaB]

wouldn't those branches in the city be overstaffed from queen street...

Possibly. But it will be cheaper in the long run for the employer to slightly over-staff other locations rather than pay redundancy and then have to recruit and train new staff.

Edit: Of course, if any of the employers utilise zero-hours contracts the economics would change.

 

[NotATrainspott]

wouldn't those branches in the city be overstaffed from queen street if they are been allocated elsewere plus thought they would be paid off no need to work for 5 months + when ever the station re open plus why is boots the only retail space still open while the rest is closed off

The shops are never going to reopen.

The works at Queen Street consist of railway works and then the general redevelopment of the non-railway area. The tunnel works are not actually related to electrification, since the necessary clearances already exist for the overhead wires, but as the concrete track slab is decaying they have decided to do the works now rather than having to do them once the station is even busier.

Another component of the railway works is that platforms 2, 3, 4 and 5 need to be extended so that 8 car trains can be used on the line. Since the tunnel is at the other end, the only way to do this is to extend them into the concourse area. They will be extended far enough that the entire front of the station absolutely must be rebuilt, as the space currently used by the shops and eateries will be the concourse. It isn't just the front of the station being rebuilt either. In essence, there will be nothing left of the station building other than the original Victorian train shed roof. You can look at the new concourse layout in this PDF from the EGIP website. If you go to this link and scroll down to the bottom to the Project Gallery, there are a variety of plans available to view. Click on the thumbnail (there are several pages of them) and then 'Download PDF'.

In the PDF I linked to directly the station redevelopment works are highlighted in yellow. The dark yellow area is the area within the ticket barriers. All of the current shops are gone completely, and are meant to replaced by shops in the Buchanan Galleries extension to the east over the current car park. As the BG project has been put off, it is still unknown exactly what will happen once the new station reopens.

 

[marks87]

Although it's going over old ground, I guess it's only fair to answer the specific questions posed by the poster. Some have been answered, so I'll pick up on the ones that haven't.

• Scotrail says closing the tunnel during this period as not much people travel in the summer- which is a lit as demand is peak duirng summer as summer festivals happen plus people still need to work at summer

It has to be done some time and their stats will show that summer has reduced flows at peak times, which is when the station is at is busiest.

There's also fewer sporting events (football, rugby) during the summer months which reduces weekend flows.

• what happens to all the rolling stock that normally service the high level service will they be cascaded to the low level

Yes, the same stock is still operating the same services, just via the low level (and Central).

• they could have closed the tunnel only at night then re open in the day if such a thing could happen

Not possible. They're lifting and replacing every inch of track in the tunnel; to do that only at nights would be highly restrictive and take considerably longer.

 

[lee56]

The shops are never going to reopen.

The works at Queen Street consist of railway works and then the general redevelopment of the non-railway area. The tunnel works are not actually related to electrification, since the necessary clearances already exist for the overhead wires, but as the concrete track slab is decaying they have decided to do the works now rather than having to do them once the station is even busier.

Another component of the railway works is that platforms 2, 3, 4 and 5 need to be extended so that 8 car trains can be used on the line. Since the tunnel is at the other end, the only way to do this is to extend them into the concourse area. They will be extended far enough that the entire front of the station absolutely must be rebuilt, as the space currently used by the shops and eateries will be the concourse. It isn't just the front of the station being rebuilt either. In essence, there will be nothing left of the station building other than the original Victorian train shed roof. You can look at the new concourse layout in this PDF from the EGIP website. If you go to this link and scroll down to the bottom to the Project Gallery, there are a variety of plans available to view. Click on the thumbnail (there are several pages of them) and then 'Download PDF'.

In the PDF I linked to directly the station redevelopment works are highlighted in yellow. The dark yellow area is the area within the ticket barriers. All of the current shops are gone completely, and are meant to replaced by shops in the Buchanan Galleries extension to the east over the current car park. As the BG project has been put off, it is still unknown exactly what will happen once the new station reopens.

so once the station will re open will there be new retail space or just new station with no shops at all plus why don't they just demolish the entire station and build a new from the ground up rather than rebuilding on the existing plans

 

[me123]

wouldn't those branches in the city be overstaffed from queen street if they are been allocated elsewere plus thought they would be paid off no need to work for 5 months + when ever the station re open plus why is boots the only retail space still open while the rest is closed off

Most if not all of the concessions are major chains that have multiple locations across Glasgow. Costa alone has eight other outlets in the city centre, and that's before you go further out to the West End and so on. I don't think the other stores will be flooded with staff. Besides, the Glasgow Central location could be slightly busier with passengers going to Inverness and Aberdeen - so may well benefit from extra staffing.

As has been said already, firing employees to hire new ones in five months would be stupid, and probably illegal. In addition to the inevitable lawsuit, the firms would have to train new staff. Similarly, having employees do nothing for five months will mandate retraining, as the staff will undoubtedly lose the skills they've learned. It makes sense for the staff displaced from Queen Street to help in other branches, and that is no doubt what will be happening.

As for why Bootsies is still open - perhaps because it's close to the low level station (which is still in use, of course!), whereas the others are well and truly in the High Level proper - the area where there will be work being undertaken.

 

[najaB]

The shops are never going to reopen.

The existing shops might not reopen, but there will be retail space in the new Queen Street station. As you said it's a bit up in the air at the moment exactly where it will be.

 

[lee56]

Although it's going over old ground, I guess it's only fair to answer the specific questions posed by the poster. Some have been answered, so I'll pick up on the ones that haven't.



It has to be done some time and their stats will show that summer has reduced flows at peak times, which is when the station is at is busiest.

There's also fewer sporting events (football, rugby) during the summer months which reduces weekend flows.


Yes, the same stock is still operating the same services, just via the low level (and Central).


Not possible. They're lifting and replacing every inch of track in the tunnel; to do that only at nights would be highly restrictive and take considerably longer.

thanks for clearing that up plus summer still has daily commutes people don't stop work because its summer as time still moves on regardless of events people still need to get to work so by coming out and saying summer is low peak is wrong as people want to get to the coast or just families day out or need to work

plus will see the like of class 170/380/158 etc finally on low level as would be instresting to see

plus will we see new shops once queen street re open

 

[najaB]

...people don't stop work because its summer...

The holiday industry tends to disagree! Most people take a week or two of their annual holiday entitlement during the summer months.

 

[me123]

... plus why don't they just demolish the entire station and build a new from the ground up rather than rebuilding on the existing plans

Because that would be even more disruptive and even more costly than the current plan.