GN Class 717

[jon0844]

I am sure they're still getting some maintenance, where safety critical, but they were supposed to be gone a long time ago.

They do get cleaned inside at least, and the worst graffiti is now gone.

 

[swat]

Even on a stopping service barely reaching 50 is woeful, 315s reach that speed on even the shortest gaps between stops over here and will still reach 65 or so on the longer ones without much issue. Are they running with several TMs isolated?

How does this work? Excuse my ignorance.

Does each unit have a certain number of motors and as they fail it gets less and less power? Is there a minimum number of motors they need working to run? (More than 1 I assume)

 

[aleggatta]

How does this work? Excuse my ignorance.

Does each unit have a certain number of motors and as they fail it gets less and less power? Is there a minimum number of motors they need working to run? (More than 1 I assume)

A 313 has two motor coaches, with all four axles driven through four motors and one air operated camshaft which switches in and out resistor banks and rearranges the way the motors are wired controlling the speed of the motors. If one motor fails (through flashover or short circuit) the whole coach has to have the traction motors isolated. on Southern, traction would only generally be isolated as a 'get me home' to rectify the fault at depot, whereas on GN it seems they are letting them run with coaches isolated, and if they happen to let two units run in multiple, both with motors isolated(I would say this was a big no no, but they might be letting standards drop to squeeze more out of the units given the circumstances), the significantly reduced power with the significant extra weight attempting to be moved will result in significantly sub par performance.

 

[Bikeman78]

A 313 has two motor coaches, with all four axles driven through four motors and one air operated camshaft which switches in and out resistor banks and rearranges the way the motors are wired controlling the speed of the motors. If one motor fails (through flashover or short circuit) the whole coach has to have the traction motors isolated. on Southern, traction would only generally be isolated as a 'get me home' to rectify the fault at depot, whereas on GN it seems they are letting them run with coaches isolated, and if they happen to let two units run in multiple, both with motors isolated(I would say this was a big no no, but they might be letting standards drop to squeeze more out of the units given the circumstances), the significantly reduced power with the significant extra weight attempting to be moved will result in significantly sub par performance.

Has anyone got any numbers of sets that allegedly have motors isolated? Loads have been withdrawn so I'd be surprised if there are any left with missing motors. Every motor car I've travelled on has had working traction motors.

 

[samuelmorris]

Has anyone got any numbers of sets that allegedly have motors isolated? Loads have been withdrawn so I'd be surprised if there are any left with missing motors. Every motor car I've travelled on has had working traction motors.

For what it's worth, I've no idea if it's happening to any great extent on GN, I don't use the line regularly, but it's the most likely explanation for reduced performance, especially in context of the comments regarding lack of maintenance.

On TfL Rail the 315s are kept in much better condition but I've been on several units running in regular service with motors isolated. It's also not uncommon on the 92TS on the central line but when every coach is powered it's far less an issue to lose a set.

 

[swat]

A 313 has two motor coaches, with all four axles driven through four motors and one air operated camshaft which switches in and out resistor banks and rearranges the way the motors are wired controlling the speed of the motors. If one motor fails (through flashover or short circuit) the whole coach has to have the traction motors isolated. on Southern, traction would only generally be isolated as a 'get me home' to rectify the fault at depot, whereas on GN it seems they are letting them run with coaches isolated, and if they happen to let two units run in multiple, both with motors isolated(I would say this was a big no no, but they might be letting standards drop to squeeze more out of the units given the circumstances), the significantly reduced power with the significant extra weight attempting to be moved will result in significantly sub par performance.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

 

[jon0844]

Has anyone got any numbers of sets that allegedly have motors isolated? Loads have been withdrawn so I'd be surprised if there are any left with missing motors. Every motor car I've travelled on has had working traction motors.

I don't think the units going for scrap necessarily did so based on how good/bad they are, but more down to needing to go through major exams. Keeping costs to a minimum seems logical.

 

[choochoochoo]

I am sure they're still getting some maintenance, where safety critical, but they were supposed to be gone a long time ago.

They do get cleaned inside at least, and the worst graffiti is now gone.

I do wonder about the cleaning. I've come to some units at the start of the day and there's still newspapers from the evening floating around. And the litter my fellow driver colleagues have left in the cab/secondmans side hasn't been removed.

As for the floors. I get that there has to be some cost control, but on the 313s it seems like they use the same mop and bucket of water/detergent for the whole night. It's like they are cleaning the floor with dirty water.

 

[Chiltern006]

What are the Saturday diagrams. Thanks. Do they change every week or not?

 

[andystock22]

Anyone got details of the 9th weekday diagram for the class 717s?

 

[jon0844]

Is this new? Not seen it before but haven't been on a 717 for a bit.

I wonder how often it polls for info and what it shows when there is disruption?

 

[BowesRanger]

Have to say im absolutely loving the ac right now

 

[holmestm]

There are 717 stop signs at Baldock and Royston, I thought these trains only went as far as Letchworth?

 

[tofl]

Is this new? Not seen it before but haven't been on a 717 for a bit.

I wonder how often it polls for info and what it shows when there is disruption?

View attachment 64906

I've not seen it. It would be useful when approaching any GN-GN interchange station, especially Finsbury Park, as you may or may not decide to stay on the train you are on, or rush to the doors, depending on what is departing imminently or delayed on other platforms.

 

[Skimble19]

There are 717 stop signs at Baldock and Royston, I thought these trains only went as far as Letchworth?

They do in normal timetabled service (realistically they only go as far as Stevenage in service) but they could run to Royston if needed.

 

[swat]

I've not seen it. It would be useful when approaching any GN-GN interchange station, especially Finsbury Park, as you may or may not decide to stay on the train you are on, or rush to the doors, depending on what is departing imminently or delayed on other platforms.

I’ve also noticed that at Finsbury Park the PIS tells you where the train is “between Drayton park and Finsbury Park” when I was there... which must be new?

 

[Skimble19]

I’ve also noticed that at Finsbury Park the PIS tells you where the train is “between Drayton park and Finsbury Park” when I was there... which must be new?

Indeed it is new, it's part of a back-end upgrade to the CIS across GTR.

 

[samuelmorris]

Indeed it is new, it's part of a back-end upgrade to the CIS across GTR.

and across other TOCs too - it's appeared in the TfL Rail area as of a couple of months back.

 

[andystock22]

They do in normal timetabled service (realistically they only go as far as Stevenage in service) but they could run to Royston if needed.

They will have to 25 class 717s, more than they need for the current timetable. I guess one could be used up to Royston as a back up.

 

[Skimble19]

They will have to 25 class 717s, more than they need for the current timetable. I guess one could be used up to Royston as a back up.

It's very unlikely to happen but could be useful in extreme disruption or engineering work.

 

[Failed Unit]

They will have to 25 class 717s, more than they need for the current timetable. I guess one could be used up to Royston as a back up.

The original plan was to have 2 extra diagrams in the peak. Moorgate - Gordon hill. This will give the WGC line a standard stopping pattern. For example the 0724 WGC - Moorgate will stop every station until Alexander Palace. Then non stop to Finsbury Park. These stops taken in the new diagrams.

Some Hertford services will also miss stops south of Gordon Hill.

That was what was in the consultation timetable. It may be quietly forgotten about like the Welwyn - Sevenoaks and Cambridge- Maidstone services.

 

[ABB125]

Apologies for not looking through the many pages of the thread, could someone please post the current diagrams for the class 717s? I will be in London on Friday and want to sample one (or two!).

 

[Chiltern006]

Apologies for not looking through the many pages of the thread, could someone please post the current diagrams for the class 717s? I will be in London on Friday and want to sample one (or two!).

And the Saturday ones!

 

[Failed Unit]

Apologies for not looking through the many pages of the thread, could someone please post the current diagrams for the class 717s? I will be in London on Friday and want to sample one (or two!).

Try this.

https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/new-trains-info/class-717/717-passenger-diagrams-wc-26-11-2018/

However lots of diagrams so between Alexander palace and Moorgate you shouldn’t need to wait more than 20 mins for one.

 

[ABB125]

Try this.

https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/new-trains-info/class-717/717-passenger-diagrams-wc-26-11-2018/

However lots of diagrams so between Alexander palace and Moorgate you shouldn’t need to wait more than 20 mins for one.

Thanks

 

[ijmad]

So that's now 69 out of 160 weekday departures from Moorgate covered by 717s.

Another couple of diagrams and it'll be 50%!

 

[tofl]

The original plan was to have 2 extra diagrams in the peak. Moorgate - Gordon hill. This will give the WGC line a standard stopping pattern. For example the 0724 WGC - Moorgate will stop every station until Alexander Palace. Then non stop to Finsbury Park. These stops taken in the new diagrams.

Some Hertford services will also miss stops south of Gordon Hill.

That was what was in the consultation timetable. It may be quietly forgotten about like the Welwyn - Sevenoaks and Cambridge- Maidstone services.

Having just moved to Hertford, that would suit me very nicely. Does anyone have any inside track on when/if the remaining items from the consultation timetable will be delivered? Can anyone find any recent pronouncements on the subject from GTR? Everything I have seen is very vague....

 

[ijmad]

That was what was in the consultation timetable. It may be quietly forgotten about like the Welwyn - Sevenoaks and Cambridge- Maidstone services.

Slightly OT I know, but I think these should still be coming. Just a year later than originally planned due to the May 2018 timetable disaster and December 2018 'reset'.

 

[Aictos]

Having just moved to Hertford, that would suit me very nicely. Does anyone have any inside track on when/if the remaining items from the consultation timetable will be delivered? Can anyone find any recent pronouncements on the subject from GTR? Everything I have seen is very vague....

Depending on where you’re travelling to/from, don’t forget you have routes to use which can be very handy when one route is unavailable.

Personally I don’t think we see the remaining items where the Hertford Loop is concerned until the 5th Platform at Stevenage is in passenger service so Dec 2020.

 

[jon0844]

Slightly OT I know, but I think these should still be coming. Just a year later than originally planned due to the May 2018 timetable disaster and December 2018 'reset'.

Some maps I've seen are saying December 2019. I assume that's still an aspiration.