• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBLIN) electrification

Status
Not open for further replies.

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Does anyone know how the Gospel Oak to Barking line will be fed electrically? Will it be a new feeder station or existing adjacent electrical feeding stations on LTS, GE, WA, ECML, MML and NLL / WCML?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
Does anyone know how the Gospel Oak to Barking line will be fed electrically? Will it be a new feeder station or existing adjacent electrical feeding stations on LTS, GE, WA, ECML, MML and NLL / WCML?

New feeder and distribution. The route is being designed to cope with double Class 86, Class 90 and Class 92 on freight, so will be specced accordingly.

Don't know for certain what grid access point will be used though, must dig around for the documentation.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,224
New feeder and distribution. The route is being designed to cope with double Class 86, Class 90 and Class 92 on freight, so will be specced accordingly.

Don't know for certain what grid access point will be used though, must dig around for the documentation.

Is that standard for a newly-electrified non-branchline?
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
Is that standard for a newly-electrified non-branchline?

It depends on traction electricity demand (both on the new route and elsewhere) and feeder capacity elsewhere, diversionary routes, and the potential electrical isolations for maintenance when complete, which is most of the issues.

If the electrification of one route increases electric train utilisation on an already electrified route further 'down the line' that line may need increased electrical feeding capacity, which can be bundled into the new electrification project.

You need to also look about what happens when one route is closed and power turned off, will it effect your feeding arrangements and what alternatives do you have available, what feeding capacity does alternative(s) provide and so on.

Hob GOBLIN is about as complicated as you can get though, as it's connecting to electrified railways at either end and en route, with portions of the line already electrified. It'll be a nice one to colour in on the map, that's for sure.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
New feeder and distribution. The route is being designed to cope with double Class 86, Class 90 and Class 92 on freight, so will be specced accordingly.

Don't know for certain what grid access point will be used though, must dig around for the documentation.

Any information would be appreciated.

I concur I would be very interested to know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If the electrification of one route increases electric train utilisation on an already electrified route further 'down the line' that line may need increased electrical feeding capacity, which can be bundled into the new electrification project.

You need to also look about what happens when one route is closed and power turned off, will it effect your feeding arrangements and what alternatives do you have available, what feeding capacity does alternative(s) provide and so on.

From my earlier post you probably noted that I thought the line might just be fed from existing feeder stations. I think I have seen somewhere away from here that the feeder station is the largest single expense on an electrification scheme.

Also where would the feeder station go? I don't recall on my travels on this line at lot of locations to put one down.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,214
It would be interesting to know where on adjacent lines the location of existing Feeder Stations.

LTS - Barking (or is it West Ham?)
GEML - Bow*
WAML - Northumberland Park
ECML - Wood Green
MML - Graham Park (Hendon)
WCML - Acton Lane* (Willesden)

* also feed the NLL.
 
Last edited:

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
What am I needing to look for tomorrow ? Just the feeding for GOBLIN arrangements, or is there anything else that has been asked ?
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,214
IIRC is there a Feeder Station where the North London Line links to the ECML?

Nope, that's just a Track Sectioning cabin (switching).

I'm reasonably sure that the T&H will be fed by a combination of Barking, Bow, Northumberland Park and Acton Lane. Neutral sections galore. Albeit Bow is being replaced by a new Feeder Station at Pudding Mill Lane for Crossrail IIRC.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Edited!

Rye House is too far north to feed the T&H under normal conditions.

:o Surprised Rye House is considered too far north. :o

Would have thought it would feed the T&H via Broxbourne, Edmonton Green and Seven Sisters.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,214
:o Surprised Rye House is considered too far north. :o

Would have thought it would feed the T&H via Broxbourne, Edmonton Green and Seven Sisters.

It only feeds down to just south of Cheshunt (or sometimes to Edmonton) under normal arrangements.
 

SpacePhoenix

Established Member
Joined
18 Mar 2014
Messages
5,492
Would six months be long enough to have all the masts and wires up, signal immunization done, etc?
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
Would six months be long enough to have all the masts and wires up, signal immunization done, etc?

The six month closure wouldn't be exclusively for electrification - that's all work which can be done at nights, during normal possessions, but it's only 24 single track kilometres to wire plus wiring in to the existing network and taking the feed where needed via the existing feeding arrangements.

24stk should be do-able in a month's worth of overnight possessions, getting 1km of wiring done overnight isn't unduly difficult, so the actual wiring arrangements would be easily done within probably a week to 10 days of a full closure.

Masts etc - rough count would be 500ish, again, a rate of 10 to 20 piles per night depending on plant and ground conditions shouldn't be an issue, so having full closure for 6 months, would get that part done within a couple of weeks, maybe three. It'll depend on twin track cantilevers, portals etc at junctions, which will need to be done in a specific order due to the need to electrically isolate existing electrified routes (some of which will be isolated anyway for CrossRail or other routine maintenance and renewals).

There's also platform extensions, gauge clearance works and signalling immunisation (though most should be immunised as the route has been plotted for infill electrification for a long, long time, and parts of the route are already electrified).

So yes, six months will be plenty of time to do what's needed, but there's ongoing evening and weekend work at the moment, so what will be done during a six month closure will be less than everything that's needed.
 

Hophead

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
1,193
There's a fair amount of viaduct on the route, so ground conditions won't be a factor there - and will be more disruptive during installation.

North London should be well used to long-term closures of its orbital railways by now and if this can get the job done a whole lot quicker, with much-needed DMUs released, that can only be a good thing.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Only the part between South Tottenham East Jn and Woodgrange Park Jn is actually closed for the full 6 months. The bit between South Tottenham East Jn and Gospel Oak / Carlton Road Jn is open weekdays until September 2016.

The other thing due to the proximity to housing are NR allowed 24hr working? I would be surprised if NR are given the need not to disturb residents.
 
Last edited:

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
Only the part between South Tottenham East Jn and Woodgrange Park Jn is actually closed for the full 6 months. The bit between South Tottenham East Jn and Gospel Oak / Carlton Road Jn is open weekdays until September 2016.

The other thing due to the proximity to housing are NR allowed 24hr working? I would be surprised if NR are given the need not to disturb residents.

Noise permits being refused are listed as one of the issues which could hold up delivery, but as there are viaducts which will need cantilevered/portal structures craned into place overnights, most likely using road cranes, some overnight/24hr working will be unavoidable.
 

Lurpi

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2015
Messages
77
Only the part between South Tottenham East Jn and Woodgrange Park Jn is actually closed for the full 6 months. The bit between South Tottenham East Jn and Gospel Oak / Carlton Road Jn is open weekdays until September 2016.

The other thing due to the proximity to housing are NR allowed 24hr working? I would be surprised if NR are given the need not to disturb residents.

Noise permits being refused are listed as one of the issues which could hold up delivery, but as there are viaducts which will need cantilevered/portal structures craned into place overnights, most likely using road cranes, some overnight/24hr working will be unavoidable.

Night work has been going on since at least Christmas Day, as I outlined in a post a few weeks ago.

There was work from 1am to midday on Christmas Day, from 8pm to 8am on several successive days, and there should be more work this Sunday from 8pm to 8am. And yes, the noise has already made the local papers.
 

PermitToTravel

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2011
Messages
3,044
Location
Groningen
Surely local residents would prefer to have the trains running again sooner than to not have overnight noise? And if they don't, it's likely that the quantity of other users is great enough that the local residents' view is basically irrelevant
 

Max

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
5,457
Location
Cambridge
As a daily user of Leyton Midland Road, this is going to be a huge inconvenience for me! I naively assumed that these works would be done at weekends/evenings, and was quite shocked when I saw this article.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
The link from the MML to the T&H will indeed be wired.
I think the theory is that it will be used for electric freight once the MML wiring is finished.
Electric ECS could exchange between MML/ECML that way too.

Is the MML - T&H link still being wired? I've heard suggestions it might not be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top