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Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBLIN) electrification

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Philip Phlopp

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Is the MML - T&H link still being wired? I've heard suggestions it might not be.

That I've not heard, but TfL are involved, so it's possible they're intending to get the route wired for passenger services first and complete wiring to MML, and into Thames Haven at a later date.

The link from Junction Road Junction and onto Carlton Road Junction to the MML will interact with the MML Phase 1 wiring scheme, part of which will be undertaking reliability and speed enhancements to the existing Mark 3 OLE for 2 pantograph 125mph running and 3 pantograph 100/110mph running.

If I had to guess, I'd say MML - T&H, if it has moved out of the GOBLIN scheme, will be done at roughly the same time, but just allocated to different projects, and it may be electrified with Series 1 as opposed to Series 2 OLE depending on future maintenance plans.
 
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Class 170101

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A lot of the freight links electrification schemes seem to be at risk. Presumably it also make feeding the T&H electrically more interesting if MML link isn't wired as that is one less feed to operate the T&H by.

GWML to WCML at Acton and onwards to MML at Hendon seems to have been postponed as well. I thought it was being wired this year as part of pre works for later wiring of Reading to Coventry via Oxford.
 

Philip Phlopp

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A lot of the freight links electrification schemes seem to be at risk. Presumably it also make feeding the T&H electrically more interesting if MML link isn't wired as that is one less feed to operate the T&H by.

GWML to WCML at Acton and onwards to MML at Hendon seems to have been postponed as well. I thought it was being wired this year as part of pre works for later wiring of Reading to Coventry via Oxford.

GRIP3 is progressing, nobody wants to commit to GRIP4 until things become clearer towards CP6 and the funding determination for CP6. There are going to be a lot of project that are technically shovel ready for April 2019 or just after though, so there's always that little positive. The availability of manpower and assets is, as ever, going to be the biggest problem.

The postponement of freight only schemes isn't really a major issue, now that vast numbers of Class 66 locomotives look to be made redundant as coal traffic winds down, it was always slightly curious providing wiring for freight without having some sort of requirement or incentive that freight operations convert to electric haulage.
 

Class 170101

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The postponement of freight only schemes isn't really a major issue, now that vast numbers of Class 66 locomotives look to be made redundant as coal traffic winds down, it was always slightly curious providing wiring for freight without having some sort of requirement or incentive that freight operations convert to electric haulage.

Does thst not depend upon whether biomass becomes a major source of energy instead of coal? I understand more trainloads of biomass are required compared to a given amount of coal for the same output?
 

87015

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http://content.tfl.gov.uk/track-closures.pdf

From the TfL 6 month track closures plan it looks like GOBLIN is only scheduled to close at weekends. It is pretty much every weekend though.

No, there is roughly a four month block South Tottenham to Woodgrange Park then a further three months where its closed throughout.

It also affects the North London which will have reduced operating hours on a Sunday as well.
 
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Philip Phlopp

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No, there is roughly a four month block South Tottenham to Woodgrange Park then a further three months where its closed throughout.

It also affects the North London which will have reduced operating hours on a Sunday as well.

I know some of the work needs to be completed in specific orders and by specific dates to tie in with possessions (and electrical isolations in particular) on the electrified routes which connect with the GOBLIN/T&H.

There will be quite a bit of signalling and OLE testing needed before the route is signed off, and access to do that is severely constrained by the need to keep the other routes open.

Really don't envy the people drawing up the work programme for this one.
 

Juniper Driver

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I've lived near/been acquainted with this line for nearly 45 years.I even saw a cement tanker train passing about 1430 today as I was cycling home.This is obviously going to be one of the biggest changes for the line from my early days when I used to watch the diesel railcars and Stratford class 31/37/47 freights during my schooldays at schools which were near the railway line.I guess these works will affect me like the recent bridgeworks which happened recently.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Once the electrification is complete is there the scope (available paths) to allow any GOBLIN trains to be extended to Richmond?
 

swt_passenger

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Once the electrification is complete is there the scope (available paths) to allow any GOBLIN trains to be extended to Richmond?

No there isn't. The NLL already runs at max capacity west of Gospel Oak. It could be done only if they got rid of freight traffic or reduced the number of through NLL services back to the lower numbers when TFL first took over.
 

Lurpi

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I wonder if the helluva length of the possession is influenced by the fact that this line isn't used by franchised train operators?

I originally thought that that meant Schedule 4 compensation didn't apply - at least not for passenger train services. Having checked, it does apply to London Overground; but I wonder if the concession makes it different. Since LOROL isn't exposed to demand risk, I guess TfL gets the money?
 
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Philip Phlopp

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I wonder if the helluva length of the possession is influenced by the fact that this line isn't used by franchised train operators?

I originally thought that that meant Schedule 4 compensation didn't apply - at least not for passenger train services. Having checked, it does apply to London Overground; but I wonder if the concession makes it different. Since LOROL isn't exposed to demand risk, I guess TfL gets the money?

TfL is partially funding the scheme, I think it's pretty much cash neutral in terms of Schedule 4 for passenger, or what Schedule 4 would be. There is still some Schedule 4 compensation to go to FOCs inconvenienced by the works.
 

philjo

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Going past on the ECML the other day it looks like there are some of the tubes for the mast foundations currently lying at the side of the Harringay curve (at the far end near the signal to the GOBLIN).
 

RichmondCommu

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Does thst not depend upon whether biomass becomes a major source of energy instead of coal? I understand more trainloads of biomass are required compared to a given amount of coal for the same output?

The problem is power stations that are or have been or indeed could burn biomass are now closing.
 

Busaholic

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Better still would be if the curve to kentish town were still there then it could join onto the trains that terminate at KT and become part of Thameslink as a Sevenoaks to Barking service.

With some of the more adventurous proposals coming from the new Thames Crossings plans etc, you might get a Sevenoaks circular via Kentish Town Barking and Bexleyheath.:lol:
 

EM2

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The closure plan has now been confirmed by Network Rail:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...nger-trains-on-the-gospel-oak-to-barking-line
Passengers and residents across north and east London are set to benefit from a major upgrade to the London Overground route between Gospel Oak and Barking as part of Network Rail's Railway Upgrade Plan.
Journeys on the route to be improved and capacity doubled with new four-carriage electric trains from early 2018
Investment in longer platforms and improvements to stations along the route
Work to install new infrastructure will require a phased programme of closures from June this year
The £130m+ scheme will electrify the line ready for a new fleet of cleaner, quieter and longer trains which will ease congestion and improve air quality.

Network Rail is delivering the project, which is being funded by the Department for Transport and Transport for London (TfL). The project will see TfL introduce new four-carriage electric trains to replace the existing two-carriage diesel trains from January 2018, helping to meet growing passenger demand.

Hundreds of thousands of people living close to the line – which covers 14 miles and runs through six London boroughs – will also benefit from a reduction in CO2 emissions from the railway.

In order to electrify the railway, overhead wires and structures to support them need to be installed as well as the construction of three new switching stations. To make room for this new infrastructure, four sections of the track will be lowered, four bridges will be rebuilt and a further six modernised. TfL will also be investing in lengthening the platforms and enhancing stations to accommodate the longer trains. Network Rail has already started work on the foundations for the structures that will carry the overhead wires.

Due to the scale and complex nature of the work a phased eight month closure of the line is necessary, starting in June 2016. This consists of a part closure from early June to late September 2016 with trains running between Gospel Oak and South Tottenham during weekdays, and a full closure of the line from October 2016 to early February 2017. TfL will be providing rail replacement buses which will operate along the route.

Network Rail’s Route Managing Director, Richard Schofield, said:

“This is a vital project to keep pace with continued growing demand for rail. This investment will transform the service on this route, doubling capacity with cleaner, quieter electric trains and is a key element of the Railway Upgrade Plan."

Mike Stubbs, TfL’s Director of London Overground, said:

“Customers along the line will reap the benefits when work to electrify the route is complete. It will allow for new longer walk-through trains to operate from January 2018, which will double capacity to meet growing demand on the route. It will also enable a new rail extension to Barking Riverside, which will support up to 11,000 new homes.

“We recognise that eight months is an extensive disruption for our customers, but this is minimised for the first four months by being a partial closure during the week, followed then by a full line closure. We continue to work with Network Rail to see if the timescales they set out can be reduced.”

Rail Minister Claire Perry said:

“We are investing record amounts in transforming our rail network, and when this major work completes, passengers will benefit from better journeys on less congested, cleaner and quieter trains.

“In the short term there will be disruption, but Network Rail and TfL are doing all they can to keep passengers informed and ensure any inconvenience is kept to a minimum. I’d like to thank passengers and residents for their patience, and I am looking forward to seeing these improvements delivered.”

From June to September 2016, there will be no service between South Tottenham and Barking on weekdays and no service between Gospel Oak and Barking on weekends. From October 2016 until early February 2017 there will be no service on the entire line between Gospel Oak and Barking. Further works to have the line ready for electric trains will take place during evenings and weekends only and will be completed by the end of June 2017.

Transport for London (TfL) will provide detailed advice to help get customers around throughout the closure. Information will be made available via email alerts, Twitter @LDNOverground, posters and announcements in stations.
 

swt_passenger

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I see on the video one of the captions refers to track lowering by 30 cm through a station. So that one alone presumably requires a complete demolition and rebuild of the entire length of the platforms and any existing buildings, stairs, footbridges, underpasses etc. You can see how the time needed starts to stretch out...
 

Lurpi

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A few statistics from the NR video perhaps worth making a note of should they come up in discussion:

- Ten bridges modified (four rebuilt, ten strengthened)
- Track lowered by 30cm at four locations
- 550 piles for overhead line equipment
- 24 hours to wire one mile of track
- 721 masts (I assume because some masts will use concrete instead of piling?)
- 28 miles (45km) of electrical wire
- Three new switching stations

Oh, and TfL is in charge of platform lengthening.

It is a nice video. I wonder whether NR oughtn't to make a corporate advert telling people about the nice things they do, and then people might not associate them with signal failures and overrunning engineering works so much. Something a bit like this perhaps. But that's prob for another thread.
 

Orange Box

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Impressive, given its not agreed with the operators yet. Don't seem to have mentioned the three weeks when they are planning to down tools and not do anything while leaving the whole lot blocked as they don't want to resource it, either :-?
 

Bald Rick

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- 550 piles for overhead line equipment
- 721 masts (I assume because some masts will use concrete instead of piling?)
.

The difference will be those that are bolted directly to viaducts.
 

plcd1

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Impressive, given its not agreed with the operators yet. Don't seem to have mentioned the three weeks when they are planning to down tools and not do anything while leaving the whole lot blocked as they don't want to resource it, either :-?

What isn't agreed with the operators [1]? The blockade dates have been known for months so what's left to agree? If NR block the route and set the signals to red then LOROL and FOCs can't use the route anyway and I don't find it credible that they don't know what is going on.

Care to say more about the 3 week "do nothing" thing you've mentioned?

[1] I did see an "odd" quote in the Standard attributed to Mike Stubbs that suggested "things weren't settled" which seemed a tad odd to me at this pretty late stage.
 
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306024

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You need to understand the process NR and the TOCs/FOCs go through to agree engineering access. There is a procedure that allows the operator to dispute possessions, sometimes on a technicality, sometimes as a negotiating tactic. If NR waited for everything to be agreed every time before starting to plan then nothing would happen.

Mike Swiggs, who he?
 
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plcd1

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You need to understand the process NR and the TOCs/FOCs go through to agree engineering access. There is a procedure that allows the operator to dispute possessions, sometimes on a technicality, sometimes as a negotiating tactic. If NR waited for everything to be agreed every time before starting to plan then nothing would happen.

Mike Swiggs, who he?

Sorry my mistake - Mike Stubbs is TfL's Head of Overground. How did I get his name wrong! :oops:

I have some understanding of the process and I know there can be some "tactics" deployed by the various parties. I saw that in looking at the comments to the Network Change for Lea Bridge station (a different process I know but still involving parties putting forward their commercial / technical / operations views).
 

Philip Phlopp

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What isn't agreed with the operators [1]? The blockade dates have been known for months so what's left to agree? If NR block the route and set the signals to red then LOROL and FOCs can't use the route anyway and I don't find it credible that they don't know what is going on.

Care to say more about the 3 week "do nothing" thing you've mentioned?

[1] I did see an "odd" quote in the Standard attributed to Mike Stubbs that suggested "things weren't settled" which seemed a tad odd to me at this pretty late stage.

The network change consultation is still ongoing, it wraps up at close of play tomorrow. That's about as much as I know about the planning aspects for this.

Mike Stubbs was quoted as saying "No final decisions have been made, but we are aware of the disruption this will cause and so we are pressing for the shortest possible timescale." which could relate to a few things - TfL doing some work, NR doing others (or rather, each set of contractors) or a lack of plant/staff to carry out the work.
 
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