Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[Class 170101]

If GoVia win the northern franchise staff will be able to go from Brighton all the way up to Carlisle on their passes! I know this is off topic but do stagecoach employees get to use their passes on virgin trains services?

How will they get to Carlisle?

LM goes no further than Crewe / Liverpool.

Northern is a Serco / Abellio franchise.


Whats the status with GN staff travelling on East Coast services at weekends from that date?

 

[physics34]

Expect a new logo and little else. After all they'll be off Thameslink duties in 2017.

they cant be too far away from needing a full repaint being 10 years old (i know theyve had the "patchy" repaint recently but that the are still faded in places)... i say stick them in the grey and blue!!!

I suppose being the same company virtually its not a real business problem to have them running around in southern colours.

 

[Metobusfan]

How will they get to Carlisle?



LM goes no further than Crewe / Liverpool.



Northern is a Serco / Abellio franchise.





Whats the status with GN staff travelling on East Coast services at weekends from that date?

I heard that TL and GN will still have the free weekend travel on east coat

 

[Manchester77]

How will they get to Carlisle?

LM goes no further than Crewe / Liverpool.

Northern is a Serco / Abellio franchise.

I said 'if GoVia win the northern franchise' so they'd get to Carlisle with their staff passes if they win the northern franchise since they were shortlisted by th DfT for the next franchise.

 

[Class377/5]

they cant be too far away from needing a full repaint being 10 years old (i know theyve had the "patchy" repaint recently but that the are still faded in places)... i say stick them in the grey and blue!!!

I suppose being the same company virtually its not a real business problem to have them running around in southern colours.

The 377/2 have all recently had a refresh by Southern. The 377/5 should have one prior to moving to GN.

I heard that TL and GN will still have the free weekend travel on east coat

Its an arrangement that works both ways.

 

[Aictos]

Unless I've missed something, there's hasn't been anything from FCC/GTR internally confirming or denying what travel arrangements will be available post FCC except Govia staff passes will be posted in the next week or two allowing travel across the Govia network.

I guess staff travel will be very busy sorting this out

 

[bussnapperwm]

That website is very bright and colourful! Makes a change from the usual bland corporate sites!

And useful on tablets...

 

[jopsuk]

with the 377/5s going to the GN- or rather, specifically to Cambridge Fast services as everything else through Hitchin will be 700s off peak:
How many 365s are they going to need to retain for the peak extras? Running a half-hourly service to Kings Lynn with 8 cars south of Cambridge, 4 cars north needs if I recall correctly something like 13 or 14 units. Some peak services are 12 car south with some 8 car services calling limited stops to Ely or Kings Lynn at present. There are 23 /5s

I guess part of it is "don't know"- we don't know how many additional Peterborough-Kings Cross peak services the GN side will run, we don't know how many extra Cambridge services and what length they will be. Must surely be a little frustrating that the plan is to retain part of the 365 fleet- surely it would be vastly preferable to have a uniform fleet.

 

[Abpj17]

Apologies if someone has already asked, it's a long thread.

I have an annual season ticket on the Thameslink route; it expires four days after the franchise changeover. Is there anything I ought to know / worry about for the renewal?

(Prompted by realising the nectar points deal with FCC was unlikely to carry over!)

 

[jon0844]

Other TOCs are giving Nectar Points so maybe that will stay?

 

[MikeWh]

Other TOCs are giving Nectar Points so maybe that will stay?

Other First Group TOCs, and Virgin as long as you use their trains for part of the journey.

 

[Class377/5]

Apologies if someone has already asked, it's a long thread.

I have an annual season ticket on the Thameslink route; it expires four days after the franchise changeover. Is there anything I ought to know / worry about for the renewal?

(Prompted by realising the nectar points deal with FCC was unlikely to carry over!)

Nothing. Your ticket will be fine. You'll lose the nectar points tho sadly.

 

[alex17595]

Sorry if this has appeared in the thread before but I can't find it.
What new services will be introduced? from what I can find the most major one is a Bedford-Ashford INTL and various other ones such as Kent House,Rochester

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this has appeared in the thread before but I can't find it.
What new services will be introduced? from what I can find the most major one is a Bedford-Ashford INTL and various other ones such as Kent House,Rochester

Those are only transitional stages, there is no Thameslink service to Ashford or Rochester in the 2018 final timetable map here:

http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/cms_page_media/1222/Proposed 2018 Thameslink service pattern.pdf

and according to the relevant route fact sheet the existing peak extras to Ashford and Rochester go back to Southeastern operation to Blackfriars bays in December this year:

http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/cms_page_media/1273/Factsheet 9 - Kent Thameslink services.pdf

 

[TEW]

The Ashford and Rochester services already run but they will stop from the December timetable change. They will only run south of Blackfriars.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry if this has appeared in the thread before but I can't find it.
What new services will be introduced? from what I can find the most major one is a Bedford-Ashford INTL and various other ones such as Kent House,Rochester

From December 2014 they will go back to Blackfriars bays terminators just like prior to March 2009. The new Southeastern Maidstone East to Blackfriars services will become Thameslink from 02/01/2018.

Kent House/Beckenham Junction/Orpington become part of Thameslink from Dec 2014 until Jan 2018. Sevenoaks permanently transfers along with Catford Loop stations this December.

EDIT:

387102 has an usual variant on the Southern logo in this picture.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60628514@N02/14859391108/in/photostream/

 

[Minstral25]

with the 377/5s going to the GN- or rather, specifically to Cambridge Fast services as everything else through Hitchin will be 700s off peak:
How many 365s are they going to need to retain for the peak extras? Running a half-hourly service to Kings Lynn with 8 cars south of Cambridge, 4 cars north needs if I recall correctly something like 13 or 14 units. Some peak services are 12 car south with some 8 car services calling limited stops to Ely or Kings Lynn at present. There are 23 /5s

Wasn't the 377/5's supposed to have been reserved for the 8 coach South Croydon to Milton Keynes services or is there enough 377/2's for this route?

 

[physics34]

Wasn't the 377/5's supposed to have been reserved for the 8 coach South Croydon to Milton Keynes services or is there enough 377/2's for this route?

i believe only one diagram will be 8 car 377/2 and the rest of the diagrams will be 377/7, so the 377/5s are not needed.

 

[Class377/5]

Wasn't the 377/5's supposed to have been reserved for the 8 coach South Croydon to Milton Keynes services or is there enough 377/2's for this route?

The original plan prior to the order of the 377/7's was 2tph WLL 8 car services. Seems that's now the end of the plan and 5/8 cars kept at 1tph.

 

[TEW]

Wasn't the 377/5's supposed to have been reserved for the 8 coach South Croydon to Milton Keynes services or is there enough 377/2's for this route?

There should be enough 377/2s displaced from Thameslink services by 700s to allow 8-car services, on the all day diagrams at least. It depends if the released 377/2s are used for strengthening other services though.

 

[Southern Dvr]

The original plan prior to the order of the 377/7's was 2tph WLL 8 car services. Seems that's now the end of the plan and 5/8 cars kept at 1tph.

Far as I know there aspiration is still 2 tph between CLJ & WFJ

 

[southern442]

From December 2014 they will go back to Blackfriars bays terminators just like prior to March 2009. The new Southeastern Maidstone East to Blackfriars services will become Thameslink from 02/01/2018.

Kent House/Beckenham Junction/Orpington become part of Thameslink from Dec 2014 until Jan 2018. Sevenoaks permanently transfers along with Catford Loop stations this December.

EDIT:

387102 has an usual variant on the Southern logo in this picture.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60628514@N02/14859391108/in/photostream/

I think that livery looks really good!

 

[physics34]

I think that livery looks really good!

yeah nice!!!

 

[Minstral25]

Far as I know there aspiration is still 2 tph between CLJ & WFJ

I think that has gone somewhere - I've just revisited the GTR fact sheet and that states that a similar service to now but with Longer trains.

Not good for the overcorwded WLL

 

[Yabbadabba]

When I last looked at GTR publicity it hinted that the 23 377/5 were going to the Cambridge and Kings Lynn expresses from KX while maintaining a smaller fleet of 365s to work alongside them and that the 9 377/2 on loan to FCC would find there way back to the Southern part of the franchise so should Southern wish they will eventually have a pool of 15 377/2 and 8 377/5 for the WLL as well as the metro service in general. But then again South Eastern have desires on some of Southern's 377/1 fleet so that could leave Southern short thus more duel voltage 377s used purely on DC routes to make up the shortfall and longer trains and more trains on the WLL having to wait a bit longer. I know one thing for sure when the class 700 and the new GatEx (387?) arrive on mass there is going to be some interesting internal GTR and GOVIA in general stock shuffles.

 

[infobleep]

Far as I know there aspiration is still 2 tph between CLJ & WFJ

I thought the reason they couldn't run more services at 2tph was due to pathing issues with all the London Midland trains. I'm sure a member of Southern staff said that to me once when on a WLL train.

They were able to find extra paths in the morning but not in the evening I seem to think was part of the issue.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the reason they couldn't run more services at 2tph was due to pathing issues with all the London Midland trains. I'm sure a member of Southern staff said that to me once when on a WLL train.

That is not really news though, it is exactly what was said in the London and SE RUS of 2011 in the section discussing the WLL. The aim was explicitly for 2 tph peak service (Option I1) of 8 car trains (Option I2) from such time as the WCML timetable was re-cast, and the stock became available from Thameslink; hence a quadrupling of capacity on the WLL.

However the decision on the second service's destination was to be made later. (This latter question being only whether or not it would run to Milton Keynes or not - possibly only Watford Junction.)

The thing is that the WCML timetable IS supposedly being re-cast in the timescales of this GTR franchise (there are all sorts of WCML open access decisions waiting for it) and possibly well before 2018. So the 'timetabling argument' should have been solvable in the run up to 2018, yet as we have seen the GTR route brief no longer mentions it.

I guess it's possible that the analysis explaining why the proposal has disappeared will be included when the forthcoming Sussex route strategy (that replaces RUSs) is published.

 

[Class377/5]

I think that livery looks really good!

yeah nice!!!

Guys, there's links to quite a few more shots of the 387s on that forum.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92831&page=12

 

[physics34]

Guys, there's links to quite a few more shots of the 387s on that forum.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92831&page=12

presumably vinyls and unfinished, the first 377/6s didnt have all the paintwork done when they were testing them.

still surprised the the extra bits are green (even though they are sub-leased from southern), considering the routes they will be on and the thameslink logo is purple and blue.

 

[infobleep]

That is not really news though, it is exactly what was said in the London and SE RUS of 2011 in the section discussing the WLL. The aim was explicitly for 2 tph peak service (Option I1) of 8 car trains (Option I2) from such time as the WCML timetable was re-cast, and the stock became available from Thameslink; hence a quadrupling of capacity on the WLL.

However the decision on the second service's destination was to be made later. (This latter question being only whether or not it would run to Milton Keynes or not - possibly only Watford Junction.)

The thing is that the WCML timetable IS supposedly being re-cast in the timescales of this GTR franchise (there are all sorts of WCML open access decisions waiting for it) and possibly well before 2018. So the 'timetabling argument' should have been solvable in the run up to 2018, yet as we have seen the GTR route brief no longer mentions it.

I guess it's possible that the analysis explaining why the proposal has disappeared will be included when the forthcoming Sussex route strategy (that replaces RUSs) is published.

Interesting. So if they wanted to provide the space they could but for the time being they are not for the reasons you outlined. I had previously just assumed, there isn't the space so it won't happen, end of.

It can't be easy doing a recast of an area as complicated as the WCML. Some former colleagues Nick named the WLL service the magic bus, as they couldn't believe such a useful service existed. One of them however lived near Earlsfield and he use to go into and out of Central London in the morning because getting on the magic bus at Clapham Junction, let alone a seat, was near impossible a lot of the time. I use to attempt it once a week. So glad I don't have to now.

With the service straddling both South London and WCML slow lines it wouldn't be easy to fit it in during a recast.