Gsm-r sg button

[dk1]

I’m touched by your faith in the system. I can’t be the only driver who has been asked to account for a delay that originated with being stood at a red signal.

If I feel it's anything worth reporting I just send it in via the delay app. I've never been asked if I pressed the SG button though.

 

[Toots]

Some press it ,some don't, depends on The Driver, the location and how long they have been waiting. Also on an un T/C'd sidings or branch where the train is hidden from the box is useful to know they are ready to leave those locations.

 

[Sunset route]

Likewise, but I will only press it once per signal and not repeatedly.

I have also been informed by a DTM that it helps with attributing delay, as Nitwit Rail will use the absence of an SG press as evidence that the delay was not due to their actions. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it’s what I’ve been told.

Except that no one looks at GSMR terminal screen apart from the signaller and actions auto delete after a predetermined time unlike the old CSR, so the TDACs would never know, not that they are allowed anywhere near us at the moment anyway.

 

[O L Leigh]

Except that no one looks at GSMR terminal screen apart from the signaller and actions auto delete after a predetermined time unlike the old CSR, so the TDACs would never know, not that they are allowed anywhere near us at the moment anyway.

I accept that, but it’s not the TDACs (TOC delay attribution clerks...?) I’m referring to. The suggestion is more that Nitwit Rail’s own delay attribution system will quibble any delay where the SG button is not pressed, meaning that it gets bounced to the relevant TOC as a TOC delay. It’s not necessary for the TOC to know whether or not the SG button has been pressed.

...or at least that’s how it’s been explained to me.

 

[Fincra5]

Sorry, I should have added a

Got me good!

 

[class 9]

I’m reliably informed that over use of the “SG” button results in a slower journey.

It’s impossible to have a slower journey through Sheffield than you do now, irrespective of the SG!!!

 

[philthetube]

Our TOC’s instruction is to press it immediately if you come to a stand rather than waiting 2 minutes, however common sense usually prevails nonetheless.

I am a great believer in doing as instructed in these circumstances, love silly rules which make the creator look stupid.

The best way to get rid is for everyone to follow unfailingly.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Most of the time your knowledge of routes and timetables tells you why you’re being stopped, so there’s no point pressing SG straight away.

Indeed but there are occasions where the trains stopped out in the sticks with no obvious reason. There could be a temporary line block or all sorts of things but after a few minutes of inertia the passengers get restless and expect explainations. The signalman says wait is not what they want to hear.

 

[philthetube]

They would rather hear anything than nothing.

Sorry for the delay, I am currently waiting for the signaller to get back to me is far better thn nothing.

 

[Railweigh]

Indeed but there are occasions where the trains stopped out in the sticks with no obvious reason. There could be a temporary line block or all sorts of things but after a few minutes of inertia the passengers get restless and expect explainations. The signalman says wait is not what they want to hear.

I know, in those circumstances I’ll press SG straight away as per regulations, or sometimes you just know something is wrong so I’ll just call the signaller as soon as I’ve come to a stand.

Otherwise I’ll call them after a few minutes and find out the reason, again as per regulations - signallers don’t want constant phone calls. Usually if there’s something majorly wrong you’ll get a call from them or contact signaller message anyway.

 

[LAX54]

SG may well lead to a slower journey, but not for the person sending SG, it may well be another train...whilst the Signaller wanders over to the GSM-R to see who the beep is
One annoying thing I hear some Signaller say, is that they get SG, and the train is booked the stand there some 90 mins ! (we have a freight booked to wait on the Bacon Factory for over 90 mins, but they send SG as they approach the signal) would be nice if the Signaller could send back a bit more than just the 'wait' that is the standard message !

Indeed but there are occasions where the trains stopped out in the sticks with no obvious reason. There could be a temporary line block or all sorts of things but after a few minutes of inertia the passengers get restless and expect explainations. The signalman says wait is not what they want to hear.

Oddly, that is when the Signaller may not get SG ! something we find quite odd, you can stop a train at a signal that is 'never' red (normally), but utter silence from the train

 

[berwicksfinest]

SG may well lead to a slower journey, but not for the person sending SG, it may well be another train...whilst the Signaller wanders over to the GSM-R to see who the beep is
One annoying thing I hear some Signaller say, is that they get SG, and the train is booked the stand there some 90 mins ! (we have a freight booked to wait on the Bacon Factory for over 90 mins, but they send SG as they approach the signal) would be nice if the Signaller could send back a bit more than just the 'wait' that is the standard message !

Oddly, that is when the Signaller may not get SG ! something we find quite odd, you can stop a train at a signal that is 'never' red (normally), but utter silence from the train

That wouldn't be 4M79 would it ??

 

[Tomnick]

One annoying thing I hear some Signaller say, is that they get SG, and the train is booked the stand there some 90 mins ! (we have a freight booked to wait on the Bacon Factory for over 90 mins, but they send SG as they approach the signal) would be nice if the Signaller could send back a bit more than just the 'wait' that is the standard message !

Not quite the same, but we usually don't have passing times shown on our job cards, so we don't necessarily know whether we're running early especially if it's a long way between stops (or empties with no stops other than origin and destination). We routinely turn up at one junction a few minutes early, but we have to SG after a decent pause really, because we don't know for sure that we're running early! It hasn't stopped at least one colleague getting a quite uncalled for tirade down the phone though.

 

[387star]

after two mins I press it unless it is obvious

 

[Toots]

It annoys me when it says wait and you do wait with no explanation. At least on a SPT you (hopefully) got an answer.

The problem is, if we have a conversation with a Driver, or anyone for that matter (bar a ECO) and you make a cods of YOUR comms WE get a bollocking if it gets picked up and we didn't correct you.

 

[Re 4/4]

we have a freight booked to wait on the Bacon Factory for over 90 mins

I'm curious what a driver is allowed to do if their train is booked to wait for 90 minutes - I imagine using a smartphone is a no, but would they be allowed to read the newspaper or something?

 

[bengley]

I'm curious what a driver is allowed to do if their train is booked to wait for 90 minutes - I imagine using a smartphone is a no, but would they be allowed to read the newspaper or something?

Freight drivers generally are allowed to use phones when stopped at reds for extended periods.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Freight drivers generally are allowed to use phones when stopped at reds for extended periods.

How long does it take to build up air from scratch?
One would expect the loco to be shut down if the driver knows they're not going to be moving for an hour and a half (both for noise and environmental reasons), then just started up e.g. 15 minutes before departure to build up air. I'm not sure if it takes longer than that to build air enough to release the brakes though.

 

[221129]

How long does it take to build up air from scratch?
One would expect the loco to be shut down if the driver knows they're not going to be moving for an hour and a half (both for noise and environmental reasons), then just started up e.g. 15 minutes before departure to build up air. I'm not sure if it takes longer than that to build air enough to release the brakes though.

You would absolutely not shut it down just waiting at a red.

 

[computerSaysNo]

You would absolutely not shut it down just waiting at a red.

Even if you know you're not going to be moving for a very long time?
Why not?
Sitting static with the engine on for an hour and a half is getting 0mpg, there's still fumes from the engine, plus noise pollution if the siding/loop isn't in the middle of nowhere.
Even bus drivers are instructed not to leave the bus engine on when at a terminus, even for a few minutes.

 

[221129]

Even if you know you're not going to be moving for a very long time?
Why not?
Sitting static with the engine on for an hour and a half is getting 0mpg, there's still fumes from the engine, plus noise pollution if the siding/loop isn't in the middle of nowhere.
Even bus drivers are instructed not to leave the bus engine on when at a terminus, even for a few minutes.

Because you can quite easily be given the road at any point. You can't just flick a loco on and off like a car...

 

[Llanigraham]

Even if you know you're not going to be moving for a very long time?
Why not?
Sitting static with the engine on for an hour and a half is getting 0mpg, there's still fumes from the engine, plus noise pollution if the siding/loop isn't in the middle of nowhere.
Even bus drivers are instructed not to leave the bus engine on when at a terminus, even for a few minutes.

But you cannot presume that you won't be let out early. A cancelled or delayed service could well mean that there is a gap in the timetable to let the freight run. Trying to restart a loco could easily lose that slot.

 

[LowLevel]

Even if you know you're not going to be moving for a very long time?
Why not?
Sitting static with the engine on for an hour and a half is getting 0mpg, there's still fumes from the engine, plus noise pollution if the siding/loop isn't in the middle of nowhere.
Even bus drivers are instructed not to leave the bus engine on when at a terminus, even for a few minutes.

Think about it, you're being one dimensional. No engine running, no heating/ventilation for the driver. No working stove so they can use the break to cook their dinner or make tea. After a while no lights.

Freight driver isn't a hospitable existence.

Freights can sit in loops for hours at times. They're not just going to sit there and freeze to tick an environmental box. It isn't a bus.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Think about it, you're being one dimensional. No engine running, no heating/ventilation for the driver. No working stove so they can use the break to cook their dinner or make tea. After a while no lights.

Freight driver isn't a hospitable existence.

Freights can sit in loops for hours at times. They're not just going to sit there and freeze to tick an environmental box. It isn't a bus.

Is there not a battery to keep the lights/heating/microwave running?
I know if the engine is off it will cool down but an engine of that size will keep producing heat for hours after being turned off I would have thought?

 

[EvoIV]

I don't even know where to begin with that. But in short, no, you don't get heat with the loco shut down. The loco batteries are notoriously feeble and will run flat just with lights on.

Cab heating requires electrckery, and lots of it. Never seen a microwave in this country, would be nice but given the internal state of most cabs (in my team nobody has any cleaning responsibility/allocated time so you can imagine the conditions)

I'd hate to think of the mould that would no doubt soon be growing inside. We have a hotplate (sometimes) and are thankful for that.

 

[LowLevel]

Is there not a battery to keep the lights/heating/microwave running?
I know if the engine is off it will cool down but an engine of that size will keep producing heat for hours after being turned off I would have thought?

No.

I suspect you actually have no knowledge of the subject so perhaps you would be better off accepting the answers given to you that, well intentioned though your idea is, on current traction, it is not practical.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed but there are occasions where the trains stopped out in the sticks with no obvious reason. There could be a temporary line block or all sorts of things but after a few minutes of inertia the passengers get restless and expect explainations. The signalman says wait is not what they want to hear.

Whilst working on-board we were expected to do an announcement within 2-3 minutes even if it was a "Apologies that we're currently being held at a red signal, hopefully we will be on the move shortly but if not I will give you a further announcement". I wouldn't want to bother the driver too much unless it started touching 5 mins and then a 2nd announcement with a reason.

 

[43096]

If you shut the loco down you also lose the compressor. Doesn’t that also mean having to apply wagon handbrakes?

See the Lac Mégantic disaster for what can happen.

 

[SilentGrade]

I accept that, but it’s not the TDACs (TOC delay attribution clerks...?) I’m referring to. The suggestion is more that Nitwit Rail’s own delay attribution system will quibble any delay where the SG button is not pressed, meaning that it gets bounced to the relevant TOC as a TOC delay. It’s not necessary for the TOC to know whether or not the SG button has been pressed.

...or at least that’s how it’s been explained to me.

attribution clerks have absolutely no access to the GSMR system and would only ever know what was sent if they rang the box up and were told it. Basically it’s cobblers.

 

[martin2345uk]

Even if you know you're not going to be moving for a very long time?
Why not?
Sitting static with the engine on for an hour and a half is getting 0mpg, there's still fumes from the engine, plus noise pollution if the siding/loop isn't in the middle of nowhere.
Even bus drivers are instructed not to leave the bus engine on when at a terminus, even for a few minutes.

We don't even shut them down when leaving them in a yard to be relieved by another driver in 1-2 hours' time....