but when the railway suffers from thing beyond their control, the passengers don't give up on their conditions
This is no longer always the case. It applies to older franchises, for examplethe railways do manage to get out of paying compensation when the delay is deemed not to be their fault.
but not to newer franchises, for exampleJourneys on (former) First Great Western Link Services
If you hold a ticket for a single or return ticket, or a Weekly Season Ticket, and your train is delayed or cancelled due to the fault of the rail industry, you will be entitled to compensation in National Rail travel vouchers of at least 50% of the price you paid for the
delayed journey if:
• You are delayed by more than one hour on a rail journey of an hour or more
• You are delayed by more than 30 minutes on a rail journey of less than an hour
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/...engers Charter Booklet B_006_0409 FOR WEB.pdf
East Coast
Our Delay Repay compensation scheme applies to all ticket types (including Season Ticket holders) and is irrespective of what caused the delay. ... Customers delayed on East Coast services between 30 and 59 minutes will receive compensation of at least 50% of the cost of a single ticket or at least 50% of the cost of either portion of a return ticket.
http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/passengers-charter1/delay-repay/
Good luck getting this restriction printed on a Crewe to Euston Off-Peak Return:
I think the best we can hope for is getting tickets printed with the restriction code that passengers can then look up on line (though a much more user friendly version than currently exists on NRE would be needed) or from a booklet published at the same time as fare changes (though that would probably be expensive). Certainly it would be a step in the right direction to have the code printed on tickets.
Good luck getting this restriction printed on a Crewe to Euston Off-Peak Return:
I think the best we can hope for is getting tickets printed with the restriction code that passengers can then look up on line (though a much more user friendly version than currently exists on NRE would be needed) or from a booklet published at the same time as fare changes (though that would probably be expensive). Certainly it would be a step in the right direction to have the code printed on tickets.
The thing to remember about Advance tickets is that they started out as a way for TOC's to put bums on seats on quieter trains, and to direct people onto these quieter trains. When this becomes abused enough, then there will be nothing in it for TOC's, and they will discontinue them as more hassle than they are worth.
They did indeed start that way, but now I can usually book Advance tickets for trains which I know will be absolutely rammed. I assume the TOCs are happy to sell them as they get all the revenue rather than less than half from a non-advance ticket.
What beggars belief is that TOCs are willing to haul empty first class coaches around. If McNulty wants to look at cutting costs the fuel or electricity needed to drag 35 tons of empty space for 200 miles should be in his firing line.
This is true of course. In BR days Advance (Apex) tickets were a useful way of selling a few tickets to fill up empty seats on the presumption that £10 was better than nothing.
Now, the economics of Advance tickets is completely different.
Interesting point; very thought-provoking. I guess we're saying that having loads of advances available at a price not much less than half that of the off-peak return, on trains that will be full anyway, is a sneaky way for TOCs to work around the prohibition on setting TOC-only fares on flows where they are the lead operator.
What beggars belief is that TOCs are willing to haul empty first class coaches around. If McNulty wants to look at cutting costs the fuel or electricity needed to drag 35 tons of empty space for 200 miles should be in his firing line.
I'm amazed that penny hasn't dropped with everybody sooner...
I don't see Advance tickets being withdrawn, no matter how bad the publicity gets, but TOC's may become even more strict in the enforcement of the T&C's, and cheaper tickets may become more difficult to find.
Well quite, but I am now confused as to why you said TOCs will discontinue Advances due to the hassle.
I said they might, if they become a liability to them in terms of revenue.
I said they might, if they become a liability to them in terms of revenue.
Oh, that must be a different post ... the one I saw said 'will'.
First class pays for itself during peak times. If it did not, then TOC's would have lost it years ago (or reduced the size). There is no realistic way to take the carriages out of formation during the day for a few hours, it would mean several hours work in a depot for no good reason.
Interesting point; very thought-provoking. I guess we're saying that having loads of advances available at a price not much less than half that of the off-peak return, on trains that will be full anyway, is a sneaky way for TOCs to work around the prohibition on setting TOC-only fares on flows where they are the lead operator.
So how do London Midland get away with it? You can buy a Euston-Crewe walk-on fare that's routed "LM Only". Surely they can't be the only TOC who are allowed to do this? The only thing I can think of is something clever along the lines of routeing via Northampton (since technically VWC don't go that way)
....So how do London Midland get away with it? You can buy a Euston-Crewe walk-on fare that's routed "LM Only". Surely they can't be the only TOC who are allowed to do this?....
What beggars belief is that TOCs are willing to haul empty first class coaches around. If McNulty wants to look at cutting costs the fuel or electricity needed to drag 35 tons of empty space for 200 miles should be in his firing line.
My guess would be because LM are not the "lead operator" on this route, and are therefore allowed to do this.
Yes, for example York - London Terminals has route EC Only for ticket types FOS, BFR and FOR (plus 3 others costing £999 or more). But none of these is a regulated or protected fare, which for this journey is the £94.10 SSR.There are East Coast only tickets on the East Coast Mainline where East Coast is the lead operator
There are East Coast only tickets on the East Coast Mainline where East Coast is the lead operator by hairyhandedfool's definition.
Only standard class has the restriction, and in certain circumstances the lead operator can bring in a TOC-only fare on a promotional basis. There are also some special arrangements on London Terminals to Milton Keynes C and v/v as well as the Brighton main line.
Interestingly, it has been possible for a long time to buy a SOR from Retford to London Kings Cross rte 'EC & Connections', which slightly undercuts the 'Any Permitted' SOR fare (£149 v £174).
I think it is this regulated or protected fare that the lead operator is prevented from undercutting with a TOC-specific fare.